Dungeon Master Forum

Heh, I'll provide one anyway, incase you need to get tactical with the screamers - actually, althoguhthe ledge looks narrow, it's around 10 feet just around the corner, it's only narrow at the cascade itself where erosion has done its thing. And even then, erosion did its thing underneath, so the ledge looked its original width

Ok, lower level map. Grid is in 10 foot squares. PLacement of characters is approxomate until you tell me it's fine

And upper level map...please ignore the things that need ignored. More importantly, Ian yell if everything isn't placed as you think - I left you guys a little bit away from the cascade still.

I'll probably be off to bed soon, if Ameena updates tonight, I might be able to sneak in an update tomorrow morning. Busy at work, I'll see how easy it is to update at lunch otherwise.

Night all!

One question - how big are the leeches?

About Ameena sized, but concertina-ing to twice that, and quite 'fat', so they would be considrered a medium sized creature (equivalent to Westian and Haynuus more than you or Falkor). Oh, the 19 perception buys Ameena the vague feeling that the leeches aren't as wet as they should be. And they they almost seemed like they were placed onto the shore by the water, instead of emerging from the water. Though again, Ameena won't be able to quite figure out whay she felt that.

When I visualise the leeches, I can see the ones from Eye Of the Beholder I. I never 'owned' Dungeon Master, but EOB I was the first game that was bought for me!

They are actually a nod to Conflux (as are the red flowers), although really I just liked the concept. Oh, except in conflux the leeches are just annoying, whereas these leeches...well, let's hop you guys don't find out.

Although you will.

I'm sort of automatically picturing them as looking like the leeches from EQ (pic at http://common.allakhazam.com/images/i/d/id4024.png if anyone's interested), only a bit slimier-looking and lower to the ground rather than sort of reared-up like that.

Seems a good mental image to have to me

The map is fine with me. Apart from the fact that it is covered with deadly creatures, of course.

They're not deadly! The things you guys are supposed to be softened up for will be, of course

I think we need to get ourselves some ranged weps, lol - right now the only person I can think of with any (immediately available) ranged ability is Falkor, and umm...yeah. Wherever he is right now . Ameena would probably be alright with a sling, or a hand crossbow (if those exist in v3.5 - the little one-handed crossbows...though I suppose ven something that small might be slightly bulky for a murafu to handle, let alone htf she would carry it ). I'm hoping that it is possible to BS with ranged weps in this version - 4th edition lets you do so with light blades, slings, and crossbows if you have combat advantage. Ooh, do Rogues in this version also get the thingy where you have automatic combat advantage in the first round over anything that hasn't yet moved? Alright so we're not in the first round of this particular combat any more, but it'll be good to know .

Yep, creatures are flatfooted before they act, so can get snuck attacked. There's no inherent sneak attack damage with ranged weapons in 3.5 (no, wait, there's some odd thing about short range...I'll look that up). And remember, one of the Trolins was firing at you with a device on their wrist...might have been a miniature crossbow

Ooh yes, he was pewing stuff at us, wasn't he? Hrmm, that might be worth investigating if we survive this little tussle...though heading back toward where the grak-graks were last seen may not necessarily be a fantastic idea, plus going through the icky squished-up bits of Blue Troll doesn't sound particularly appetising, lol. Or have they done the poof-into-a-cloud-of-smoke thing like the first lot did (back at the start)? Well, I suppose this is irrelevant for now since all characters' attention is on the immediate threats. So it can wait .
Going back to sneak attacks, what about attacking from Stealth Mode? If a mob doesn't know you're there do you get to BS it (and does that work with ranged weps)? And is it possible to enter Sneak Mode whilst in combat if the thing you're trying to hide from is distracted fighting someone else or whatever? And then can sneak up and BS the crap out of it .

I've just looked on the website and with regard to ranged Sneak Attacks, it says it counts if it's within 30 feet. So that's, what...six squares. So I can pew-BS people from up to six squares away. Muahahaha . But getting a BS from a distance, I find, tends to only be possible in the first round (provided I move before the mobs do) - other than that, the only other time I tend to get combat advantage is when flanking, at which point obviously I don't really need to pew them .
I can also do non-lethal damage with a Sneak Attack. Well, it says I can do so if using a blackjack or unarmed strike and can't do so with a wep that normally deals lethal damage. I'm presuming, though, that the fact I now have IUS means I can ignore this and BS with non-lethal damage any time I like.
I'd better look up combat advantage in this guide too, in case there are any other times I might be able to take advantage of it - I know about flanking, first strike, and if the target is prone/unconscious/helpless (etc...actually the latter can attract a coup de grace in which case probably anyone can just gank it ), but need to check if there's any more.

Edit - Okay, there doesn't seem to be any kind of section on Combat Advantage. Oh well.

Yeah, but they have to be flat footed somehow or losing their bonus to dex. Still, if you can get people to climb, that's one way. Also feinting if you have decent bluff

Your improved unarmed strike still only applies to unarmed attacks - so what it means is you could sneak attack with your fist for lethal damage or non-lethal damage.

Yeah, combat advantage is easier phrase 'losing your dexterity bonus to AC' I wonder why 4th edition coined the term combat advantage?

LIke I said, flanking is a special case, otherwise you need to feint, attack when someone is flat footed, or catch them in a bad situation (Like climbing or balancing I think). OOh, ooh, or if someone is grappling, they lose their bonus. So if Haynuus or someone else can grapple a foe, you can run up and stab them /shoot them somewhere nasty

THe 'stealth mode' is the hide skill n 3.5 if you want to look it up. I combined hide and move silently to stealth as many 3.5 offshoots and 4th ed did. In general, it's practically impossible to 'hide' in the middle of combat (or when someone knows you are there), but it's perfectly possible to hide before combat, and ensure you get at least a surprise round of combat with sneak attack damage added!

4th edition made this a little easier, 3.5 has tried to streamline the vague guidelines in the 2nd edition (and restrictions of backstabbing from hiding in shadows), so that sneak attack is any time you can get to guide a shot to a vulnerable area, because your opponent isn't fully focused on the fight.

And yeah, each two levels you gain more damage dice, instead of the toned down damage dice of 4th edition. So let's see the pacifist murafu suddenly murder everyone, shall we?

Oh, the Trolins thta got splatted are Real Trolins - there's still some bodies (Not splatted, they just dropped dead of shock). But yes, getting close to that cave bit they emerged from might be dangerous. Who knows!

Ahh, I thought they sort of auto-splatted as the result of "falling off a cliff" courtesy of the grak-grak special abilities. Ah well...I'm sure there'll be plenty of opprtunity to yoink stuff later or something . Someone needs to make ickle crossbows specifically for little murafu hands to hold or something . Actually, technically murafu should be pretty useless with ranged weps since it wouldn't be something they ever tend to use. Ah well, the perks of being a DnD Rogue, I suppose .
Meanwhile, hopefully I'll get to use a Sneak Attack or two against these leech thingys. Well, you know, if they don't just eat us all . So far Ameena's done almost sod all in combat...she had a little go at the first Trolls, and at the Mummy I think, but that was about it. Then again, about the only other fight she's been in was that one against the soldiers, and since Falkor initiated that in the way he did, she chose to remove herself as quickly as she could from the horrible scary violence .
I want to see how much decent damage I can do. But knowing my luck, the same thing will happen to me as happens at tabletop - when I'm finally actually flanking someone (as opposed to standing back and pewing them with a crossbow because for whatever reason, I can't get in the position to flank), I roll crap on my Attack Rolls and so miss .

[/b]Yeah, the mummies were a shame - damage reduction anbd specifically no vulnerability to sneak attack damage. And you in a flanking positon too! Still, you and falkor determined where he moved in the combat, and given everyone could be one hit killed, that was important at the time![/b]

Yeah, Sneak Attack doesn't work on undead, does it...I suppose 'cause they have no specifically vulnerable areas as such. Stupid undead gits .

I did feel guilty at the time....then I laughed....then I assumed that at some point you might actually get to use sneak attack and finally go 'woot', so it's all good.

My desktop computer is telling me to go stuff myself right now, so we'll see how much of an update I can post tonight. He various game things needed to do tonight probably already would take up most of the evening, without fighting with computers and using a laptop that barely types

Wish me luck!

My main computer's just not wanting to work consistently, though Ameena's delay of acton without any contingencies mean I can't update anyway. Another busy work day tomorrow, so I guess I'll have to leave you in suspense until the weekend, and of course the following days after that when I have my visitors.

Sorry, I promise that there won't be multiple day delays between each round of combat after Wednesday next week.

beowuuf wrote: Wish me luck!

Belated good luck!

Oops, shit, yeah, Westy has moved now, hasn't he? Sorry! I shall bugger off to post now .

beowuuf wrote:I have to say, your are playing a cleric in 3.5 very badly. You are on the front row, taking all the blows. Just liek the grak-=grak fight, you fell first - the rest of the party were doomed at that point, as they had no healing worth a damn.

In my defence the current situation and the grak-grak situation I did not have a lot of choice (well, I had plenty of choice, but the alternatives would have been worse). The grak-grak fight I could not leave Farel and Ardur on their own, but I got sucked into a wrestling match. And the wasp...well I know you have to be careful, but a tough guy in full plate mail hiding behind a scared murafu is just a step too far!

I would say the fight with the soldiers would be the only one where I could act cleric like and sit in the back a bit and hand out potions. Having Haynuus, Aurek and Farel to take the slack (and Falkor to block all the swords with his chest) helped!

Falling off the cliff in the present situation can't have helped much, either . If we can deal with this wasp, then like I said before, hopefully then Ameena will be able to hop down and help you out with the leeches...at least till they gank us 'cause from the sound of it they are gonna be pretty nasty buggers, unless Wuffy is just deliberately making them sound really scary . Maybe their slime poisons you when you touch it or something, or maybe they spit Water Elementals at you. Eeww .

Lol, I was more pointing out the typical 'role' of a cleric seems to be 'deal with undead and please heal me' in 3.5. I think in the end it was me that pushed your non-combatant cleric into fights Really, I could have swapped some of the cleric versus rogue attributes to make the rogue more ninja-like in terms of beign the second best fighting class, and made the cleric a real priest.

Then again, I did want to start you guys off fast - and I like how it's turned out (killing Westian is fun for me!)

And yes, Westian got to be his diplomatic potion swinging self in the soldier fight. That was a great fight. Mage blerw up a bad guy then got himself actually dying, Haynuus dramatically on his last negative hitpoint legs... great days. Not enough Westian death though!

Maybe having Westy make a few spare healing pots and dishing them out to everyone might be a good idea, in the event of people being split up whilst fighting...erm...you know, like right now .