We're all gonna die! or: New to DM

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:36 pm

Denise: The Hint Oracle doesn't lie: The door can be opened by an onyx key, just the lock isn't where you would expect it at the first glance. In Mongor's dragon lair there is a button that opens a wall a few tiles away. That wall (the one which is opened by the button) is hidden behind an illusionary wall. Once opened, you will be in the immediate vincinity of the seemingly lockless door, the lock is on the very tile where the wall will have opened up.

Post by **Ameena** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:00 pm

I don't know for sure, since I can't remember fully, but I remember being a bit "stuck" because I couldn't get to the DDD...I'm sure it was in Ku though, but then I seem to recall the Dragon maze being there lol.
Anyway (and don't read this if you don't want directions

), I can remember I started resorting to the-bash-my-brains-out-till-I-find-an-illusionary-wall trick. One of the passages from the Altar of Rebirth at the start of the section is a tunnel with some stairs at the end, on the right. A few steps down this tunnel from the Altar, on the left, is an illusionary wall with some stairs on the other side. These lead into a fairly small room with a Giant Scorpion or two (it varies - they respawn every now and then). From here I think there is just one set of stairs leading up. I can't remember what's up there, might be more Scorpions or something...but I do seem to recall the maze being around there somewhere.
Or maybe that's totally wrong

. Well, you know you've found the maze when you go up some stairs and find yourself face-to-face with a wall. And when you finally DO find the maze, try and remember how you got there in case you fall down one of the pits and end up somewhere completely different hehe

.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:05 pm

Ameena, Denise: I think that you are remembering wrongly, Ameena. The way up through that illusionary wall near an alcove holding a Key-of-B belongs to Ku. In Ros, there are 2 areas where one might miss the way to proceed: South of a possibly giggler-infested area containing some illusionary walls, there is a visible pressure plate in a niche near some pit&downstairs around the corner. You gotta know that the pressure plate will close the pit for a very short moment, so if you trigger it and immediately dash around the corner you can pass the now closed pit. The other difficult part is to get the green gem beyond the area with all that fireballs and scorpions. The mere possesion of the green gem will open up new ways. Also, there is very usefull but very cleverly hidden shortcut to the starting room nearby the green gem.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:09 pm

BTW: This thread contains primarily CSB questions. Shouldn't we move it to the CSB forum instead of haing it here at the DM1 forum?

Post by **Ameena** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:15 pm

Ohh that annoying green gem/Scorpion/Fireball trap bit is Ros, is it? I was thinking it was Dain for some reason...no clue why, since I KNOW that's the one with the Flying Snakes, Fireballs-whizzing-across-the-room room, Blob Monsters, Air Elementals, the Cistern, blah blah blah...
Arrgh that bit with the green gem is really annoying...the amount of times I got blown up there lol.
Oh well, I haven't played it for a while...maybe next time EQ is down for patching, repatching, emergency repatching of the emergency repatch and all that, I'll have another go...start YET ANOTHER new game (hehe) from DM and see if I end up higher levels by the time I get to CSB...though I seem to get through DM faster and faster each time and as I can never be arsed to just stand there practising skills (well, except chucking a boulder on the spot for Ninja levels hehe), I'm gonna be entering CSB lower and loewr each time and probably just get mauled by Worms because I'm not above like Artisan in most skills lol.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:34 pm

Ameena: Play RTC, then you don't need to get arsed to train: Just reimport your DM/CSB party into DM with all their levels, you can play then but at increased difficulty, according to your new level. As you will continue to rise in power, difficulty will increase every time you import your party anew to DM or CSB. DM/CSB with faster moving monsters is unbelievable much fun!!!

Paul Cassel · Post by **Paul Cassel** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:15 pm

linflas wrote:denise and slide, you've started your games for such a long time, what levels has your team reached actually ?
i know that if you complete the game slower, your champions will have big stats at the end.

I'm lo masters in all but ninja for my two PC's. BTW, I do have the green gem. Is that the thing I'm 'missing' in ROS?

I have been playing for a long calendar time, but my game time is short. I have replayed certain areas many times reverting to old saved when I do. Like I've been half dozen times thorugh ROS with only one for the record.

Post by **Ameena** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:59 pm

Ahh, I haven't been arsed to play RTC 'cause it'd be a right bugger not being able to cast the spells I want from the beginning...I mean, you don't get Fireball till like Level 7 or something, and as it's one of the only two offensive spells I ever really use, that would be a right bugger

.
And I don't know how I'd handle the mobs charging round really fast at higher difficulty lol. Would be rather manic, I think...and if I also didn't have any runes, well...I think it would be a case of "Aarrrgh, a super-fast Screamer! Ow ow ow ow....get off me....arrrgh no Fireball...nooo...run run run....whups a(n) <insert evil nasty mob here> arrrrgh...oops...fell down a pit...eeeek a(n) <insert another evil nasty mob here>! Oh bugger, a dead end...fook it...<insert various expletives here>"

.

Post by **Lunever** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:25 pm

Ameena: Aw, there is a severe misunderstanding: If you play the PROGRAM Return To Chaos (RTC), you will get offered 3 modes of play: Dungeon Master Original Mode, which is DM1 WITH ALL SPELL RUNES just like the original, RTC-Mode, which is DM1 but with the restriction of having to use a spellbook, and CSB; which does not make use of any spell restrictions.
YOU CAN USE THE IMPORT FUCTIONALITY In ALL 3 MODES. That means, if you don't want to, you don't have to play with spell restriction, this is completely optional. If you don't like it, play DM1, fuse Chaos, import your DM1-Veterans to CSB, destroy the Corbums, and if you want to, you can reimport your party now to DM1, playing at higher difficulty (faster monsters), fuse Chaos, import them to CSB and play that too at increased difficulty, and so on, until ou have All-Archmasters.
I personally prefer to play O-DM1, then switch to RTC-DM1, then proceed to CSB.
BTW: You don't have to finish the games to use import, you can even import characters from different savegames/parties and join them to a new party.
The RTC mode is only an option enforcing playing like not already knowing all spell rune combinains designed for veteran players who want to emulate their initial DM playing experience.

Denise · Post by **Denise** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:53 am

The stats are:

Plague H 651 "square" Master fighter
S 279 Expert Ninja
M 288 "square" Master Priest
<Master wizard

Petal H 561 < Master fighter
S 545 Adept ninja
M 273 > Master wizard
= Master priest

I am currently in the cistern, and found the escape passage through the onyx key door.

I am almost out of food again and feeling rather despondent about this food thing.

I have knocked into every wall off the ways as possible, the few false walls I found didnt lead me anywhere I hadnt been.

Ameena, apart from the deth knights I found KU a good arena. I found the route to DDD there quite easily via the stairways to the spiders, (oitus), then up to the antmen, up to a vi alter which had a false wall which took me to the scorpions which do regenerate - the others dont, which takes you up to DDD and sapphire room.

I went back to Ros - feeling peckish and got to the way which has the false wall at the end of the passage to the right and down the stairs to eat, store up on food, and return to the ways - right! I remember Slide going on about the over infestation of worms in a previous thread, and I had just the opposite - I had visited this set of passageways say, 6 times recently and not a worm, had to return to the first level to generate food via supplies for the quick. Well, what a surprise awaited me. Wall to wall worms!!! After stuffing myself silly, packing 2 chests, I still couldnt make it off the bottom staircase there. I tried going upstairs and dropping down pits to take me to the ways but no luck - the corridors are wall to wall worms, and breeding fast. Luckily I saved the game before going to Ros again, and went to Dain instead - managed to kill all the elementals and freaks without too much problem and found the stairs to the cistern part (I think) and here I am wearing the feral pendant, out of food and not a happy chappie! I dont think I will return to KU. Ros remains a mystery.

I realise this must frustrate those who know exactly where you are all the time, that I cant find where youre telling me. I did look at the maps in desperation and the only way I can see me getting to the dragon nest is via DDD and deth knights etc.

Unless I can find 2 staircases I just cant get to the maze and the emerald key etc.

I found fireball alley at Ros relatively easy, got the green gem and wont be back there in a hurry. I carry the green gem always.

Beowuff - I killed the Ku dragon very early in the piece - so it was a matter of finding my way to DDD then?

I think I am going to die of starvation again, where I am at...and I have no saved games of earlier so it will have to be almost from the beginning. How frustrating!!!! Its geting to me actually, my dreams are full of CSB now and thats not healthy!

Post by **Ameena** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:06 am

Lunny - Ohh okay I misunderstood then heh...I've always taken my chars from DM through to CSB but how do you start a game of DM with chars from another saved game when DM starts with no chars and hence the point of the Hall of Champs...
Denise - Lol "Square Master"....the square is Um, the second level...it goes Lo, Um, On, Ee, Pal, Mon. Then Archmaster of course the highest level but that isn't a spell rune

.
Oh, have you done the bit (I think it is Ros but as before I may be wrong) with the Onyx door, mummies, a walkthrough wall or two, a torch, a few sets of stairs, a corridor with some Throwing Stars on the floor, and erm...a couple of pits. That area of CSB doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet so I wondered if you'd been there and done that already.
Strange, everyone seems to be going UP through the Antman/Spider rooms...I've only ever arrived at them first time from the top down...I tend to come across that area again later from the other end once I've already cleared it but by then I'm normally charging around trying to find the way on lol.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:53 am

Denise:

BIG SPOILER.

Did you know you can go backward into the Junction of the Ways?
Pick up and replace the original article that was in each alcove
and the Trick Wall will open behind you. That trick would have
allowed you to escape easily backward from the Worm Room
in the basement.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:46 am

KU - you should have a solid key from that dragon...you use that in the DDD. The phrase 'fighter charge' should be the only obvious DDD clue for using it! Of course once you get rid of rocks and demons. KU has deth knights, which you hate...but they are avoidable. And it has dragons...which you can eat : )

Toni Y · Post by **Toni Y** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:03 pm

Saying that it has dragons is an understatement... I ended with 6 full chests of dragon steaks and then some

Paul Cassel · Post by **Paul Cassel** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:39 pm

Denise wrote: Unless I can find 2 staircases I just cant get to the maze and the emerald key etc.!

Denise,

The way to the stairs you seek is past the room where you found / remvoed the green gem. That is not the end of the line, but the start of the way to the staircases and the dragons.

After fighting dragons for a while, you'll get to a room clear of false walls and full of pits. Save in a scratch slot and drop down a pit to orient yourself. I do not remember how I opened up the passage to the subsequent rooms and the staircases. If I did, I'd just say - but I don't remmber it as being terribly difficult. -Paul/Slide

Denise · Post by **Denise** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:49 pm

Armeena - yes I did those mummies with the torch what seems eons ago. Thanks for the runes too

.

Guest - I did know that by replacing the original object you can get back but its not working this time. I seem to be in a key of B vi alter which doesnt go back so far. The altar of vi is just not cooperating. Yes, I also know about the false wall down stairs where its worm to worm - how can this infestation happen?

I am dreading having to go back to my early game, going thru all this harrowing @#%&* again unless I can get back to vi from the cistern before I starve to deth! I am at the part of the cistern where the blue elementals are at me with a broken door - funny I dont remember being here before let alone breaking the door - unless this is another twist the demented writer of this game did.

What kind of mind could think up this virtual almost 9 dimensional medieval chess game with all its twisted turns up? and this was back in the early days of PC's? Where is the author today? some rest home? hope not - there is nothing out there on the shelf available which comes close to the thrills, dread and utter despair these games, especially CSB holds.

And the version with the spell book RTC - its really the ultimate challenge - and reasonably comforting to note that all the really experienced players also find it hard, only being able to use spells when they find them. As it should be actually - in all logic.

I played Lands of Lore after Atari went down - I searched for a game with similar attributes and then, this was the closest I came to - in the '90's. You were given blank spell book, then granted two spells, heal and spark (a mild electric shot I think). It was more sophisticated graphics, both above and below ground and if you didnt find the chests with the spells you were stuffed. I played this a few years, got to the last level again (I think) and again, found it too difficult to kill the witch. What a ride though however, you didnt have to feed or quench thirst - just find oil to put in your lamp to light your way in the mines (which were really horrible). Finding oil was a problem but you didnt die because of it.

Slide - you mean I have to go back up there??? I left the fireballs on to kill the scorpions - oh well, fire screens and all that stuff to the fore.

Beouff - I did try "fighters charge" and expected the pit to close but it didnt - ended up downstairs again. Perhaps I was overloaded (in yellow)?
I did get the solid key and used it successfully somewhere - I cant remember where anymore.

After posting my last thread here yesterday I decided to give up - take a break, concentrate on my job, the busy time looming. The most depressing aspect of CSB to me, is running out of food, or water, when you have tried so hard battling all the various elements, puzzles, your own shortcomings, 20+ hours later of real time, to discover youre down to your last worm round in an inescapable (to me) area.

When I did it last, 12+ years ago, because I used the LARGE MAPS obviously step by step, I didnt experience the total loss of direction I now have. In a way its better - the ride is harrowing and its like a totally new game. I dont even recall how I achieved the many objectives - I just remember I did what I cant do now, easier. Or maybe time dims pain and we only remember the successful good times.

I thank you all for your time, interest, and encouragement.

Do you folk ever think of planning a worldwide reunion somewhere central? Like, picking a year, a month, and all trying to hook up in a hotel or similar, and meeting?

Paul Cassel · Post by **Paul Cassel** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:01 am

Denise wrote: Slide - you mean I have to go back up there??? I left the fireballs on to kill the scorpions - oh well, fire screens and all that stuff to the fore.
<snip>
Do you folk ever think of planning a worldwide reunion somewhere central? Like, picking a year, a month, and all trying to hook up in a hotel or similar, and meeting?

I know of no other way to get to the false wall dragon maze other than past where you got the green gem. There is something curious here, though. I don't remember but one fireball that missed me. That is, I did something, I saw a fireball whiz by me and that was it. I had no trouble with the scorps as I could lead them to a 2x2 room where they were easily doable. They never swarmed me.

I too played LOL, but I did finish the wicked witch she having an unlikely name like Scrotus or something similar.

I like the idea of a central meeting, but wonder at its practicality as we're all so scattered. I have never been to NZ and it's been too long since I"ve been to Europe. I was scheduled to sail to NZ in a year long journey that now will come in 5 years if ever.

I think we're stuck knowing each other in cyberspace now and for the indefinite future. -Paul/Slide

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:23 am

slide - you have a two figure party - unless you have them standing diagonally, there is a chance that fireballs can whizz passed you if you are standing side on. Fireballs don't explode on your square unless they actually hit a filled party position : )

Scorpion spoiler - the generator trigger is on the t junction after you walked passed the grate, so you will always need to face at least one. But yes, if there are a multitue, let the fireballs take them!
Also, fireshield - your best friend in any fireball emergencies

Denise - If you found a wooden door you couldn't open, thta opens now you have the green gem. then this is the way to the maze. Watch out for blank squares - there could be or have been anything in them

fighter charge - if the pit directly in fornt of the sigh in closed, you can't do it : ( you need to get to the other by other means, and toggle it closed it again by the pad on the opposite side. As long as the pit is closed, and no demons bar your way, fighter charge is the simplest area...to get to at least... : )

If you already used the solid key i guess you to there, opened the second stage of KU door, and then fell out of the way!

General - I quickly finished CSB today! I forgot how insane the first part of DAIN was to solve, I had to cheat with DMute and see where the exit was as I knew where I expected it to be and couldn't see it. Turnsa out that exit is stupidly fast at closing again. I needed to be facign the right direction to see it! And i forgot how easy the second part was!
I got four corbums. I then stupidly, even though i have huge amounts of keys, bombs and coins, went up with a little food and two freeze life rings only.
I walked around, took out some fading eyes that i forgot really fade to nothing, annoying buggers, and kicked a few demons. I then opened the false wall of hell and remembered why i thought there were so many demons on that level! Like the coward i am i basically kept retreating downstairs to restock on magic. I fel aroc is missing somethign, maybe luck - blows never land with well. That of course mean i had fun tryign to take on golems every so often that snuck up on me. Chaos was a pussycat though, literally. He comes up tryign to claw and fireball you (i have a weird cat), i yelled 'gerroffoutofityabugger' and he ran away. Eventually i killed a certain demon who had a certain object. I already had that certain objct and didn't really care, but he was aso the strongest demon who had constantly annoyed me. Coincidentally the last, i could go and find the FULYA pit (my initial 'freeze life and run for it' idea had ended about two steps to the door earlier). At a more leasurely pace i walked, destroyed the corbums, went 'oh' and that was that

For anyone that cares, final stats for Aroc (reincarnated):
H: 536 S: 368 M: 276
UM fighter, Expert ninja, UM priest, PAL wizard

Denise · Post by **Denise** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:27 am

Decided to give it one more try - loaded and behold I had not saved the last game in the cistern and starvation. I got back to Ros, went upstairs, turned off the switch and found the set of doors to that staircase. The dragons were really easy, found the emerald and gold keys, killed all the dragons, got back to the sapphire room with 1 whole gore coin and obtained another green box, got as many empty chests as possible and went back to packed all those steaks up. What bliss! Thank you so very much for telling me where to go - I was bout to give up.

After sorting all the junk out which has accumulated in this great rest area, I am back doing Dain - currently doing coutls and slime monsters which are breeding like rabbits. I have acquired a little more enthusiasm for the game now and the next big step I guess will be doing DDD level other than what I have already done.

Slide - how are you progressing?

Paul Cassel · Post by **Paul Cassel** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:14 pm

Denise wrote:Slide - how are you progressing?

I've fallen behind you once again. I spent as much real time as I had searching for the emerald key. I found the gold, but no emerald. So just for jollies, I went through the DDD again after ROS, this time trapped the dragon in a room so I could explore the place where the dragon was finding two exit doors neither of which had returns available. If there is more to dragon lair, I didn't find it.

I ran out of time and abandoned the game unsaved. I'm feeling pretty dreary about the prospects of once again trudging through the false wall place in search of that key, but since the game hinges on these keys, I suppose I must.

A woman I'm dating has a problem with her sports car today so I think I"m going into mechanic mode rather than console. I doubt I'll return to this game for a while. I am, perhaps, feeling like you did just a bit ago when the way forward seemed blocked. -Paul / Slide

Post by **Lunever** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:57 pm

Slide: Gotta compass? While the gold key is south-east, the emerald key is north of the maze, but you'll have to proceed nothwards in the eastern part of the maze to get there. When you have reached the northernmost part of the maze, turn west, you should find the key then.

Denise: *Maybe spoily*:
You should use an OhEwRa-penetrate-walls-spell looking westwards in the room where you have found the green gem. Lockpicks and persistence might pay here.

I hope you will be able to proceed through the DDD to the Ku and Ros-Corbums. In case you should despair on one of them 2 ways: It is possible to get both corbums with solving but one of them 2 ways, but this is a cleverly hidden secret, so I will wait until you ask me, before spoiling it.

Paul Cassel · Post by **Paul Cassel** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:30 pm

Lunever,

Thanks. I'll pursue that vector when I get a chance to play again. I'm a bit discouraged having trod through the area so many times now not finding this thing. I do have a compass, but so far have pretty well done w/o maps or other major spoiler hints. IMO, the most discouraging part of a game is if a player hits a dead end with no where to turn. Some hit that in EOBII when they could only find 1 or 2 mirror shields or got stymied in the shifting maze. Here for me it's a silly key which I must have passed within a tile or two of several times.

Anyway, again, thanks. -Paul/Slide

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:49 pm

Warm Tear!

Though this is not my first post (few days here and feels like home already), it's probably the best opportunity to intorduce

... As I read through beginning of this topic (it's quite long), I've recalled my first time with DM. Really amazing to read Denise's story

. It's quite impossible to meet such person in our country.

I was a mere child and it was on my cousins computer. My cousin is my computer guru to this day. He showed me HoC and took Iaido (reincarnated him under the name Adam - how accurate

, though it was after my younger brother). Very soon after I've had my own DM and it was really challenging to play for such brat. But besides this I loved the game (became my number 1 very soon), though I was not able to complete it

.

The long waiting for The Legend of Skullkeep was real hell, but at its end some great reward was coming my way. I love DM2 even more than DM (maybe it's blasphemy, but I can't help it

) even though it's short as pigstail!

Some year later (think it was 1999), a certain gaming magazine introduced DM1 on its cover cd. I've still had the copy (still have it

), but decided to play it again - this time to the end. That was the first time I completed this fabulous (no.1 to this day) game.
Still I can't imagine having a friend with mother/father being DM-obsessed. No offense of course, it's just amazing for me...

I don't know if someone will appreciate this even now, but my favourite party in DM consisted of Daroou (noone can forget this hairy golem

), Sonja, Wuuf (the best dungeon-game character ever) and Tiggy (I've had a dilemma of its sex quite some years ago

), but sometimes I went for Paul Stevens

/ Gando (instead of Tiggy).
Btw: Thanks a lot for CSB, Paul!

I am also sending greets to any other 17 year old DM fan [waves New Zealand directon]!
All right, that's for me, I am really happy that I found this forum and people like you. Finally I'm SURE that I am not one of the five last DM cult survivors...

Post by **Gambit37** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:28 pm

It's good to hear these stories!

Dungeon Master had a profound effect on anyone who was around when it first came out. FTL created something that leapfrogged what every one else had created up until then. It's still a masterpiece of software engineering. Look how many other games ripped it off afterwards!

It remains my favourite computer game to this day (can you tell?)

I am still amazed when new, eye-candy extravanaganzas such as Max Payne 2 come out and it's quoted as having "15-20 hour gameplay". What's that all about? DM took me months to complete the first time around. Bruce Webster (who wrote FTLs other great game Sundog) told me:

Far too many games today are caught in an arms race with regards to eye candy, commercial tie-ins, etc, and are what Wayne — nearly 20 years ago — disparaged as "railroad games", that force you onto a given track and make you mind-read the developer

Too true. I long for modern games to be more like the original DM: gameplay, gameplay, gameplay! Some have it (Thief, System Shock, etc), but most modern games are simply too interested in the look and don't spend nearly enough time on the actual game.

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:57 pm

Dungeon Master had a profound effect on anyone who was around when it first came out.

Though I fully agree, I've had first seen it in 1993/4, when graphics and everything were advanced a little bit more. But the game amazed me in every manner (maybe the dungeon was all the same, but who cares?)

.

It remains my favourite computer game to this day (can you tell?)

I can

. But isn't it a little bit sad? Such an old game is beating most of the new hits... I think that game industry should be advancing in EVERY way, not just the technology. Oh well...

I long for modern games to be more like the original DM: gameplay, gameplay, gameplay! Some have it (Thief, System Shock, etc)

Yes, that's what most of the new stuff lacks... And don't forget Baldur's Gate, Morrowind or Albion (maybe old now). Exceptions to the rule...

DM took me months to complete the first time around.

Maybe you remember an older FTL (Gargoyle Games that time) game, Tir Na Nog. That's one of my favourites too and it was sooo hard (and ages long) to complete! I also know of an sequel (prequel) Dun Darach, which was almost impossible to complete. I've heard of a guy who completed it after some 5-10 yrs of playing!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 18, 2004 3:10 pm

Sandman wrote: Maybe you remember an older FTL (Gargoyle Games that time) game, Tir Na Nog. That's one of my favourites too and it was sooo hard (and ages long) to complete! I also know of an sequel (prequel) Dun Darach, which was almost impossible to complete. I've heard of a guy who completed it after some 5-10 yrs of playing!

I had no idea that DM wasn't FTL's firsst game. Are those two games still available as DM is?

Paul Cassel · Post by **Paul Cassel** » Tue May 18, 2004 3:50 pm

The Guest reply was me. For some reason the system refused to sign me in and then did. Weird.

Post by **Gambit37** » Tue May 18, 2004 4:11 pm

No, that's not correct -- I think Sandman mixed up there. FTL has nothing to do with Gargoyle Games. FTL's first game was Sundog:Frozen Legacy which you can find out about here:

http://bfwa.com/sundog/

Tir Na nOg (which is Gaelic for "Land of the Young") was an early game on the Speccy -- maybe also other platforms. I never played it myself, but I remember friends raving about it at school:

http://www.luny.co.uk/sinclair/gargoyle/
http://www.crashonline.org.uk/08/tirnanog.htm

Paul Cassel · Post by **Paul Cassel** » Wed May 19, 2004 12:35 am

Thx for the link to a very interesting site.

Speaking of nothing in particular, I wonder how Denise is doing and if she ever finished. I'm still unsure how to proceed. I don't mean I need a hint. I have several save games each with a piece of the game solved and don't know which game would proceed most easily.

Sandman · Post by **Sandman** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:33 am

FTL has nothing to do with Gargoyle Games.

I really don't know now, look what I found

http://www.if-legends.org/~adventure/Ga ... Games.html
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseek ... oyle+Games
Pretty confused...

Anyways, Tir Na nOg is perfect game still worth playing. ZX emulators seem to be bug-free, so you can enjoy.
As I visited the site (www.luny.co.uk/sinclair/gargoyle/), reminded me of another perfect Gargoyle game - Heavy on the Magic. The game really IS heavy to play, though...

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