Dungeon Master Forum

Lol, if all the non-humans in this game were "stupid", wouldn't that make it only Aurek and half the bad guys who had any intelligence?

If by 'Aurek and half the bad guys' you mean 'most of the DM controlled NPC people', then yes, yes it would. I see now the flaw in my choice of setting!

Ameena wrote:OOC - So isn't taking 10 the same as a passive, then, technically? Passive Perception in 4th is your Perception +10, and is just basically used by the GM (as far as I can tell...at least, that's what I've been doing in the game I've started running at home) for "the stuff you notice automatically", ie what you'd notice when you first walked into a room, but not for stuff you'd specifically have to look for - you'd need to actually roll for that. There's also Passive Insight (same as Perception - Insight +10), and you can also apply the same rule to the knowledge skills (Arcana, Nature, History, Religion, etc) for the stuff someone's character would know "off the top of their head", without having to think to hard - I don't think a Druid would need to roll, for example, to identify a certain type of tree (unless it was a really rare one), nor should a Wizard have to roll to notice that the funny-shaped staff is emanating a magical aura, that sort of thing.

Yes and no. Taking 10 is an active thing. Only a kindly DM in 3.5 would assume you probably took 10 if you didn't say your character was doing it. In 4th edition, you can still take 10 with other skills that are active. However, NOT the knowledge ones you just stated. Taking 10 and passives only kick in with skills you might keep spamming otherwise. Like you might keep spamming insight afetr ever line in a conversation, or spamming perception as you walk along. To save that, passive perception and insight are used for the avergage. And you can still be asked or request to roll an active roll too (though only one)

You CANNOT take 10 on knowledge rolls. There is no such thing as passive knowledge or taking 10. No matter how knowledgeable the nerd, they do not get a gimme on every single piece of 'easy' knowledge in the world ever. The onl;y way to have that level of knowledge is to be so knowledgelable you have a +10 or +15 to your roll anyway. That's the stage where a charatcer would automatically see/feel even something basic. There is always a chance you woulnd't know a 'simple' piece of knowledge. Think about your daily life, there are some rediculous things that you go 'coo, I never knew that!' at. You can never spam knowledge rolls as you only ever make one of them to see if you knew it or not.

You might find a DM won't make a charatcer roll for certain things, but usually that's because their bonus is decent AND there is absolutely no gameplay reason to not let them identify something.

Well, I wouldn't really expect anyone trained in Arcana to ever need to roll it to detect an obvious source of magic (though maybe a more subtle/hidden one), because...well, if you're training in the arts of magic, that's gonna be one of the first things you're taught, isn't it? And I wouldn't expect someone knowledgable in Religion to roll for some kind of basic knowledge about their own god or one closely reltaed to them in lore, because likewise, you'd think a follower of a god would know stuff like that, really. I'd be more likely to allow greater "free" knowledge about something if someone was actually trained in the relevant knowledge, because that represents at least knowing all the basic/common knowledge about their chosen subject(s). If a Druid came across some kind of weird plant that had been magically crossbred from about three other plants, all I'd let their knowledge get them would be the same as everyone else - "You don't recognise this plant", which would only tell them that it was something weird if someone of their knowledge hadn't seen anything like it before. If they rolled on it, it'd probably be a fairly high DC to see if they thought the plant resembled its compoment plants, or whatever.
I suppose it depends on the circumstances and stuff. Incidentally, I'm talking entirely of 4th edition rules here, since I'm not familiar enough with v3.5 to know that kind of stuff. The use of passives just lets you give players the basic info without them having to roll on every single little thing - rolls are still required for if they're spefically trying to do/remember something, of course. You cant find the key hidden under the table with a passive Perception - you'd need to roll it in order to actually try to look under the table (in which case there'd be a higher DC if you only said "I'm searching the room" than if you said "I'm investigating the area on/around the table for anything interesting").

Yes, but it depends on how you view the game world. What's an 'obvious' source of magic? I've spend my adult life in electronics companies, and studied electronics at university. You better believe I can still get a shock from equipment that looks like it should be off and discharged, because electricity is invisible, and the signs it is energising compnents are subtle. Why should magic be any different?

And speaking of knowing everything about a subject - you should be a mistress in the subject of yourself. So how did you spend your fifth birthday? Is it something you can actually recollect? And even if you can, do you actually remember off the top of your head without prompting?

Certainly, there is no reason to force rolls all the time. The key idea should be 'does a roll mean anything?' There is no point in getting someone to roll perception to find a door, if the door must be found and the adventure stops without it. Instead, you would either pickthe person with more perception, or interestingly roll with no failure value. However, that roll might mean someone unexpected finds the door - the rogue distracted while the cumsy fighter accidently rests his shield on the door release!

Similarly, if the piece of knowledge is critical, then yes, you might just give it to the person (Or people) who would most likely know it. However, it might also be interesting to let the infallible bookworm or forest dweller to occasionally not know something that is common knowledge to a less intelligent but well travelled adventurer. I just think it lets characters and the world come alive if random chance allows for some variety. Obviously, when running a game, there isn't really a right answer to this, just a quetsion of styles of running a game, and feel of the game world

4th edition allows for greater bonuses at lower levels than the equivalent 3.5 characters (since a wizard will get +5 for his trained arcana, and should have around +3 for his intelligence at least). So the easy DCs should be hit by anyone knowledgeable anyway no matter their roll. Still, the occasional 1 just lets others shine or suddenly makes for a break from the norm.

Cool you finally ran a game! Next stop - running one for us!

As far as detecting magic is concerned, I've always pictured that in this context it gives off some kind of subtle aura, which those attuned to that kind of thing (ie those trained in Arcana) can detect because their minds work that way, they themselves have magic in them in order to be able to detect magic themselves. Someone else might hold a sword and think it gives them a weird feeling, but if a magic-user holds the same sword they'll sense the magic pulsing through it and realise that there's something mystical about it - a roll would be needed to work out more. For example.
And yes, I've started running a game at home. It's only had two sessions so far, and there's only two players, one of whom is my dad and the other is a friend of mine who doesn't often get weekend days off work so can't get round here very often in order to play - hence the only having had two sessions even though I started it, erm...early last month, I think. It's been going alright so far although combat is a bit awkward due to there only being two players - I might try bringing in an NPC character at some point, or something, just for a little while so I can have a "proper" fight with spells and shit going everywhere and stuff .

NPC characters sounds like a good idea!


Back, might get to updating tonight. Work will be a little bit busy for the next little bit, so don't be surprised if I can only do later evening updates. We shall see!

Work has knocked me off my game last night (OB and money update), and waiting for Raixel on the main thread.

Now both are done, I'll update both tonight - just back from work, and away to watch Harry Potter first after some quick lunch

You work on Saturdays as well? Ugh, the horror! (Yeah I know Ameena does but I assumed Beo had a 9-5+ job)

I do, this was voluntary to try and get ahead of the huge amount of stuff we need to get done in the run up to Christmas. And more importantly, the end of month on Tuesday

I don't work Saturdays - where did you get that from, lol. The weekend is my stay-in-bed time when I get to arse about and do stuff without having to get up at a certain time and...well, go to work .

Im sorry everyone has to wait for I. Hopefully my posts will become more regular. But with the holidays and a foot of snow getting dumped on an ultra-hilly sea town overnight where it rarely rarely snows, the past few weeks have been screwy. Stupid work and stupid living in nearly opposite time zones from you guys. I wish I had a normal 9-5 job. That would be cool. But instead I work usually 4am-1pm usually. Sometimes 6am-3pm. Usually Tues-Sat. Oh well, beats the 4 months i spend broke and unemployed this summer.

Indeed, work is better than no work, for certain definitions of 'better' that include being able to buy food and pay rent

Don't worry about the time difference - you seem to post at decent times. It's probably my schedule that is incredibly messed up, working extra hours and then taking a break from working extra hours probably means my post times have shifted from what was best.

Oh well, will all settle down after Christmas, I have no doubt!

@Ameena: I just got the 'no post mode specified' when I had to relog in between sessions. Sometimes I get the timing out of I post too late, but as I'm set to re-log on, I get to post again.

Could it be that? Do you have your log in set to keeping you logged on? That could be the issue.... or something...

I'm set to remain permanently logged in, and have been for as long as I've been here...though for some bizarre reason about a week ago I went to the forum and found I wasn't logged in so had to do so manually - I don't recall it ever doing that before and I certainly didn't log out. This "No post mode specified" is very weird - I've been posting in exactly the same way for all these years, yet recently it's started doing this, though I've not been doing anything different. Oh well - it's only an issue if I don't notice it's done it. I habitually Ctrl-C anything I post on forums or via e-mail or whatever, just in case it buggers up or something and I lose whatever I wrote.

And it just did it there - I tried to send this post and got the bug again, wtf . Long live the "Back" button .

Um, I think I missed something. What is the red T in a circle thingy on the map?

I just got the 'no post mode' thingy too, btw. I realized thats what's been happening when my posts get eaten too, and not the 'message has been posted' screen like I originally thought. I just generally dont pay attention to it and usually go to a different firefox tab while it sends. Or, at least i did till I started losing posts.

The red circle with the T is the Trolin corpse. If anyone is knocked down I invert their colours, and if they are killed I also tend to ghost out their bodies.

Hehe Raixel, that's what was happening to me too - I don't normally bother reading the "Post made successfully" page either...or at least I didn't till this weird bug thingy started happening .

Currently very busy at work, and will be until lunch time tomorrow probably. So I may not get time to post until then.

It's ok, I could do with the break, and it's a very long post yopu guys have to read

Regarding the aura rules:

Same as the YA IR shield: creates an aura around caster that can be extended up to 5ft in all directions. All allies adjacent and diagnonally from the caster can assume the same bonus. All enemies adjacent (but not diagonally) to the caster will also gain the bonus. The bonus is +1 to the appropriate attribute per spell level. Magical enhancement bonuses items or other spells do not stack - highest is used. The aura fades at the rate of one level of spell effect per round (until bonus is +0).

Holidays!

And before that, insane work!

So, what's everyone's timescale like this festivbe season? We survived one Christmas period (with a new game no less) and kept going. Can we do it again?

Anyway, I'm likely to be busy or resting from being busy, so apologies in advance for any laxness in posting and updates. How is everyone else's timescale?

Is one post a day still ok for everyone (I know OB and money are on reduced posting right now, feel free to indicate if you'd like the main thread a little slower when you rejoin)

Also, where are people going to be unavailable during the Christmas/New Year period?

I'll be away at the very end of December, beginning of Jan.

Also, and perhaps more importantly, I'l be effectively working for a new company between 1st Jan to March some time so that means that I won't be able to throw in an occasional post during the day (....as I'm doing now, oops). So I'll have to work harder to get at least one post in a day

I've just had a busy period at work and RL, but me thinks it'll go a bit quieter now. We'll see.

Still really enjoying it all though!

Cool

I am not sure. I will be in Dublin until Dec 21st, so I can post up to that point. I will be spending Christmas and New Year's in the middle of nowhere (a.k.a. "home"), where internet connectivity can be a problem. So there will be severely reduced posting until early January.

I too am really enjoying it (and thanks for doing all the heavy lifting beo!) so I certainly hope we can keep it going!

No plans, same as usual. On my third day of in a row right now due to all that white stuff that's still falling from the sky . If anything comes up, I'll let you know, but I don't expect it will .

Thanks for the kind words OB, as long as you guys don't mind me occasionally flying by the seat of my pants of an evening (and forgetting the odd thing here or there) then I'm still enjoying seeing what you guys do. I wish I had a little more mental wherewithall recently, as your characters still have many interesting places they can go for their advancement, and I'd love to do that justice before the end!

And, of course, who knows if the end would be the end....


Ok, sounds like (depending on where everyone is thread wise) we might be winding down in the next few weeks, to kick back in properly after the first week of January. See where Raixel and Money are at, but sounds like the plan.

As always, for people still around, there is stuff I can do to keep us ticking over the holiday period

Oh, Ian, I forgot to ask - I assume you are simply working in a different place, but the same general job?

sos I should imagine

Spoiler

same old shit

Our company has been bought by a consultancy firm who have... A reputation.

Spoiler

for burning people up with long hours! I personally think that it won't be as bad as other offices as we'll maintain a bit of our own culture. We shall see. I look to it as an opportunity, and if the worst comes to the worst there are lots of jobs around for pool cleaners

I WILL need to slack less though