New Unique Game.

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:48 pm

Okay here is new character sheet.
http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=30161082jd4.jpg

Thanks to Roquen who once again saved me, engine now supports jpeg. Ill post more screenshots later. Please give feedback

Post by **Sophia** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:34 pm

Most game engines don't support jpeg for a good reason. It's lossy, and tends to look like crap if the graphic is going to be scaled, used as a texture or whatever.

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:48 pm

Jpeg files do have their uses however, the inventory only supported .gif which it looked awful. jpegs do look good in some instances.
Look how good that inventory looks.

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:36 am

Blue lips?

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:09 am

lol people always say blue lips? I'm going to either do blue lips or vampire fangs with it.
To give a bit of a spoiler: Your character is a vampire changed against his will.
The character sheet isn't 100% done as you can see by food and water.

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:26 am

OK, cool, I thought it looked a little odd!

Roquen · Post by **Roquen** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:18 am

Added support for PNG as well. The real change is that the engine only cares about the base name of the file and the dungeon designer can use whatever file format he/she chooses.

Most game engines don't support jpeg for a good reason. It's lossy, and tends to look like crap if the graphic is going to be scaled, used as a texture or whatever.

This is only true for poorly compressed or high frequency images. JPEG images can "perceptually lossless" when properly created. Prior to DXTC lots of engines did use JPEG (and many still do for certain asset types). The change is only due to lowering runtime memory cost. From a pure quality standpoint DXTC is a much worse method. From the standpoint of image compression, both GIF and PNG are stupid since they both use general compression methods which are very ineffective for images. Their only real advantages is that they are simple to code (Hey I already got inflate in my code!) and some compression is better than none.

All those DVDs you been watching? The base compression tech is exactly the same as JPEG.

Post by **Sophia** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:17 am

Roquen wrote:high frequency images

I should've mentioned that, too. It seems like a lot of game graphics, particularly something "old school" like DM, tend to be this way. Of course, this depends a lot on the content. If there a lot of photo-realistic type images that you're going to essentially statically display, then, you could probably get away with it. I still wouldn't use it on anything that had sharp, high-contrast lines, though, like text titles, outlined inventory boxes, etc. Never mind the mess you get into if you need masking or alpha channels, as many game graphics require.

Roquen wrote:All those DVDs you been watching? The base compression tech is exactly the same as JPEG.

Well, sure. But that's apples and oranges.

Roquen · Post by **Roquen** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Apples and oranges..sure, I was just trying to keep things simple for the non-techies among us. (Devil's Advocate mode:)
However if you draw a complete functional block diagram of MPEG keyframe decoding and JPEG decoding...you can't tell the difference between them.

The only reason I bring all of this up is because in DMJ there are a fair number of places where JPEG would be a big win. The most notable is for the full-screen (448 x 326) event and ending backgrounds, which I have the impression that BP will have a fair number.

As an example, the the "shop test" dungeon the "weapon shop" screen is basically a scroll with thin script text written on it. As a PNG it is 247Kb, as a JPEG (that I can't tell the difference between them) it is 125K. At 46Kb, the ringing around the text is noticeable but I think that it is more that acceptable, assuming your targeting players in windowed mode. In fullscreen (800 x 600) it would be slightly ugly. Somewhere in the center would be a sweetpoint. I chose this as a test case specifically since it contains high frequency content.

Having said all of this, I should probably remind our dear readers that the only point of using JPEG would be to reduce disk storage and download times. And also mention that one should never ever use JPEG as a working format.

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:58 am

http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=61861600ey9.png

Here are some monsters that are in the game (special thanks to kelly for ripping them) I'm still ripping monsters and editing them so there will be more.

http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=71762369yu8.png

Here is the character sheet (almost completely done).
Special thanks to Roquen for mods (rune popups,color,background,etc) He has done excellent work and fixed many problems I ran into.

1)Noticed when you hover your mouse over a rune it pops up in a lil bubble the name of the rune, very helpful for new players.

2)Notice new color bars.

3)Transparent backgrounds when you look at items,stats,or sleep.

Your character if you haven't guessed is a Psi Vampire. (A vampire who feeds off both Energy and Blood.) I have a friend who is doing all the game dialogue which gives me alot more time and energy to spend on other aspects of the game.

Any feedback, questions, or suggestions is appreciated.

ian_scho · Post by **ian_scho** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:45 am

It's great that you have various people around you to add their special qualities to this project! The idea of having an Energy and Blood bar appeals to me, not only because it's different but it can bring some interesting questions to the arena - Feed, Fight or Friend

Kliber · Post by **Kliber** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:17 pm

Looking good, keep em coming....

Zed5Duke · Post by **Zed5Duke** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:45 pm

I think most of DM fans have agoraphobia, for example i like explore caves, bunkers and stuff (in real world)

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:02 pm

That makes me feel little better zed

I'm working with Roquen with something that hopefully will be a great asset to the game.

The game right now has over 40 unique monster types. Here is just a teaser of some of them.

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... erste5.png

I plan on releasing a more complete list of screenshots once we fix an issue. Keep up the suggestions,complains, compliments.

Post by **Sophia** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:04 pm

Not me, in real life I'm much more claustrophobic.

I still like DM, though.

Post by **Gambit37** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:01 pm

Broken_Paladin wrote:The game right now has over 40 unique monster types. Here is just a teaser of some of them.

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... erste5.png

Whoa! Very cool! Did you create all of these? They will really make a difference to the game; I found the original DM Java creatures to be lacking in detail and atmosphere.

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:09 pm

These are rips from daggerfall elderscrolls, when i finish game ill post all the rips as well with it to add to the resource bank.

I wanted to use monsters that we don't always see. (Eye of the beholder or dmjava). Ty for feedback on it

Kliber · Post by **Kliber** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:07 am

once I used the guy with the green robe and the staff in a signature or web page many years ago; was an animated gif of him walking and was very neat, was a surprise to see him back and to know where he came from... looking good... dont give up

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:19 pm

Sorry it's been a while since I've updated everyone. Roquen just finished xml code for me and here are some items i put together. I'm still fitting some of them so overlook any skin poking through.

When you equip a weapon it appears in hand as well as on side for easy removal. Also you can tell by the armor the male is wearing he has decided to go with armor value instead of looking good. While the female decided to look good + have armor. So you can mismatch armor or stick a complete set.
Also when you pick a male portrait you in turn get a male body and female portrait for female.

I know some people will not like the no boxes look, but change isn't always bad! Any suggestions or comments?

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:29 pm

Nice, I really like this approach

It makes a great change from the boxy inventory and gives you more detail to play with. Keep up the great work! ::-)

Post by **Sophia** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:30 pm

It looks good. It's quite ambitious, but that's not inherently bad, of course. You will have to be careful of any overlap (for example, the plate armor, second from the left in the bottom image seems to overlap the hand a bit); as long as you can avoid that, you will have an interesting new take on the DM interface.

As for "boxes," people tend to be used to the "boxes" approach, but I don't think you should suffer any usability problems as long as the click zones are clear-- since they no longer have boxes around them telling you where they are.

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:11 am

Yeah the overlap is something I have to really watch for.
The click zones of armor and weapons isn't a problem so far, but will keep that in mind.

Glad you like gambit and sophia!

I see many of you are still lurking give me some feedback, even if its you hate it! Any additions you would like to see or any questions.

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:49 pm

Okay I know many people have a few issues with dmjava, was wondering if you could have certain aspects of the engine/game changed to make it better what would it be?
Alot of stuff has already been fixed, but wanting to make sure nothing was missed or if something could be added to improve gameplay.

ian_scho · Post by **ian_scho** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:46 pm

Beowuuf always complained that there was no cap on getting 'poisoned'. I assume that in DMJava it just got worse and worse and that there was no limit on it.
I can't confirm this but the 'Levelling' in DMJava was tougher. Of course yours is going to be a big beast of a dungeon anyway so will it matter, hmmm?
An issue I had with DMJava was that when it crashed it didnt inform the user. People would post in the forum that they could view their inventory but not move or interact with the dungeon. Try causing a crash by creating a switch that targets itself!
I assume you've tried the special events interface that DMJava had? You could not only tell a story through it or offer alternative options but give 'abilities' to the players (characters). What wasn't immediately obvious was that you had to right click on the action box (punch/kick/shout) to be able to view your special abilities such as breath fire.... I loved the idea

I believe you or Roquen have fixed the memory leak problem with the issue of not 'releasing' the sounds after use.
Mehhhhh I talk too much. Good luck!

zoom · Post by **zoom** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:50 pm

well, what happened with the heads?

I see some issues with the nobox approach as it stands now,
but in general it isn't bad that you do it that way:

You should probably put transparency on the skin
(it ain't item and should be in focus --> emphasis on armor etc.)

you should probably have many different body builds - not
all look alike, some are old and some are not super muscular - not all are caucasian/white or nazis.

for a single player game it would work well the way it is, but not
for dm style game.. I think people expect to get wuuf like champions in addition to humans.. diversity is the slogan

would not be convincing with that inventory screen..
----->much more work there in contrary to box usage.

maybe you can make a layer group for certain characters,
meaning you have a lizard body for hissssa inventory.
a dwarfen inventory for stamm (shorter or bigger)...aso

It would be nice if that graphics could be done by everyone,
and if these inventory graphics could be used with rtc & dsb

issue :2h weapons don't look that good I guess, but anyway
could still look overall ok and be a cool thing

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:07 pm

Hmm the poison and/or stamina damage is a big issue I hear people complaining about will look into fixing this.
Leveling shouldn't be a problem because of the size of the dungeon it will focus more on gameplay and not as much on training, however you won't be penalized for training all day.

The old dmjava had that lockup problem where the game would "freeze" so far i havent been able to duplicate it with updates.

The add abilities is a great feature, I plan on releasing a guide with the game that will have a complete walkthrough, bestiary, ltem list, spell list, as well as features the game has that can be easily overlooked (such as click to get to your special abilities, food decay).

The people right now have no heads, most likely going to have a "shadowy head" for the top portion.
With a transparent body all the "Eye candy" doesnt stick out as much. Although the items sticking out more isn't a bad thing, i really want the game to really pop out to everyone and look good.

I do see your point with the diffrent body/race builds, however the characters that join your party are npcs of certain races, so you don't put together the party the traditonal way by mirrors. The bodies used right now are meant to be the classic hero body, all perfect without flaw. Your character is a vampire and most often are seen as beautiful creatures even if they are not.
The inventory size will stay the same just for the sake of no one not picking a certain character because their inventory is smaller. Alot of people are pack rats and love carrying everything they find around. I'm still working with weapons and items so I can't rule out or say for certain if two-handed swords will be in.

I will release all resources/textures/gamedata for my game for the forum when the game is completed so everyone will have access to them.

Ty ian and zoom for the input.

Roquen · Post by **Roquen** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:11 pm

DMJ does take longer to level. I could change that to standard.

I have fixed all the crash bugs that I've ran across but there are sure to be quite of few lurking around (esp secretly hidden in exception handlers that consume them.)

zoom: It would be cool to have different bodies, but the probably is the exposion of the number of graphic images required since this is hardcoded 2D images instead of rendered 3D models. I think male/female is insane enough! Having said that, it would be okay if they are close enough in size to have everything draw visually correctly.

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:03 pm

zoom wrote:you should probably have many different body builds - not all look alike, some are old and some are not super muscular - not all are caucasian/white or nazis.

Goodness, where did that come from!?

Roquen · Post by **Roquen** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:27 pm

Stamina damage: Doesn't it only occur when you perform an action for which it's cost is higher than your current stamina?

Broken_Paladin · Post by **Broken_Paladin** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:54 pm

I dont think it does because you take damage standing there or resting with low stamina.