Time Travelers

[Rasmus]

So back to our universe then
The thing is that I am having some problems thinking about timetravel (back in time) posible without thinking that our fate is predetermined.. So if we are going to talk about any paradox that is going to happen if I went back and killed my own grandpa, we have to discuss the posibility of a predetermined universe.
Sometimes I think of time like an extra dimention that we are forced to travel forward in. But imagine that this extra dimention really is constant, and not so abstract as many of us think about it.. Like one of our three visual dimentions.

If I where to have four visual dimention when everybody else would have three dimentions as usual. I would only be visual for anyone else if I where at a specific point in this fourth dimention, but if I move forward in this dimention I would dissapere for everybody else because they can't move in this dimention (or their physics aren't allowed to move in this extra dimention). If this extra dimention where time, then I had to move forward in the same rate thru this dimention to be visual to anyone else.. Or if I run forward and waited there, then everyone would see me when they reached me, they would only see me for a split nanosecond because they are forced forward. But in any case, I still exist even if nobody else knows about it.

Here is a example if it is the case that time work as a fourth dimention, and that we all move forward in it:
If I walk from one side of the room to the other side of the room, and that it takes me one minute.. Imagine now that we have someone that can see thru this extra timedimention, and that he would be able to look exactly one minute forward in the timedimention. He would see me at the other side of the room just completed the walk.. If he where to look a half minute forward he would see me halfway across the room, and so on..

So maybe all matter just flows thought the timedimention, and that we have nothing to say about it.. Everything we do is already done in some predetermined time.. Time maybe is exactly like a object we are walking towards, it is there but we just haven't reached it yet..

Does any of this make sense? Or is it to depressing?

[Bit]

Depressing only if it is like a wall that we meet the next couple of years... (***ouch***)

[Rasmus]

Well, it would be a wall there if you do walk into a wall in the next couple of years

[cowsmanaut]

the idea of killing your parents, grandparents, or ancestor along the line before they had their offspring that lead to you... that's also filled with alternative potential in that who you are is more internal than the external everyone sees. If you were to follow the past lives theory, then it's the idea of energy, a soul of sorts being born no matter what. Perhaps not that day, and not to that heap of flesh, but still born. If one were to do that, would it not be interesting to discover that rather than not be born you find yourself with an entirely new meat suit?

You change race, sex, age... location of birth..

that would be quite the interesting turn of events.

[Bit]

but - but - if you cannot be born, you cannot run back to kill them, and then ... you'll be born and run back and ... there's the problem! That's not just a turn of events. Does it mean both versions exists then, or how should one imagine that paradoxon?

[Chaos-Shaman]

but - but life is but a dream

[Bit]

/me claps your but*

[cowsmanaut]

let me rephrase. If your flesh and bones does not exist, it doesn't mean your soul exists.. if you can follow the idea of rebirth. The idea of Karma suggests you will collect karma for deeds and that karma will lead to the form you will be born to in your next life time. So with that suggestion, then your soul existed before your current birth, so if you were to kill someone in your family line who would lead to you not being born, it doesn't mean you won't actually be born, just that you won't be born to the same parents or into the same body you inhabit now. See?

so if you were to kill your father before you were born, then if your soul is indestructable, you would instead be born to a different father. Although, again, if the karma thing exists, you rebirth might not come up human, and then you're really screwed without thumbs because then how do you operate the time machine!!?

[Bit]

Old english ghosts know how to operate with the house

[Zyx]

And if your father was the inventor to come of the time machine, by killing him you would be stuck in a new world devoid of time traveling. There is also the old theory that changing the past you depend on could destroy your world (I think Asimov may be one of the first to divulge such idea, but P K Dick developed the topic much deeper for example).

In conflux, you can travel to a time where you are dead and you can hold your own skull. You could even find the corpses of yet to be chosen members, and in early versions, you could resurrect those bones without soul, leading to strange bugs and ghost members. However this bug was warned about in a scroll (something about incomplete quadrinomes if I remember well) so it was some sort of predicted feature until I removed it. Well, maybe I removed it. I can't remember.
Anyway, you can cheat your apparent doom if you have Gothmog by going to the future, taking your own cadavers and sacrificing them to obtain an alternate ending from another programmed doom requiring member sacrifices. And thus, in an unforeseen way, you create a third future. I planned to allow to keep playing after reaching this special ending, but the arrow of time was already so convoluted that I decided to allow a few seconds of aftermath before ending the game, and thus preserving what was left of understanding to the player. Sorry for the out-of-place anecdote.

[Chaos-Shaman]

hehehe, the time machine can be operated with a button. you just have to eat it

[Rasmus]

A movie to recommend regarding this topic:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/through- ... -possible/

[Chaos-Shaman]

http://beta.ca.news.yahoo.com/huge-magn ... d-sun.html

This is more likely the outcome of 2012, nothing too special, but it could have an effect, we'll see. It is a good bet that this activity could be responsible for the warming of the globe in the past, and also for the cooling, which might be what is about to happen. All the recent volcanoes and earthquakes I think are related to this event, it's not the end of the world.

[Jan]

Volcano eruptions and earthquakes (and other events like tsunami) have nothing to do with solar activity. They are caused by Earth's internal processes, mostly connected with plate tectonics.

[Chaos-Shaman]

Volcano eruptions and earthquakes (and other events like tsunami) have nothing to do with solar activity. They are caused by Earth's internal processes, mostly connected with plate tectonics.

I believe it's the gravty thing going on, and the sublimation of the oceans are extremely active due to the molten iron moving beneath the earths crust, since the earth is a big magnet, i can't see why it would not have something to do with it.

[Jan]

I beg your pardon? I'm afraid I can't see your point (and I have studied it and I teach it). Could you explain it a bit more, please (perhaps I'm just misunderstanding)? What I was saying was that volcanoe eruptions and earthquakes are caused solely by the so-called "endogenous" factors, i.e. those having their origin inside the Earth. Gravity does have some influence here, but gravity has almost nothing to do with the hydrological cycle (evaporation etc.). But maybe you're talking abour something different.

[Chaos-Shaman]

I beg your pardon? I'm afraid I can't see your point (and I have studied it and I teach it). Could you explain it a bit more, please (perhaps I'm just misunderstanding)? What I was saying was that volcanoe eruptions and earthquakes are caused solely by the so-called "endogenous" factors, i.e. those having their origin inside the Earth. Gravity does have some influence here, but gravity has almost nothing to do with the hydrological cycle (evaporation etc.). But maybe you're talking abour something different.

i was referring to the 2012 end of time story. i'm no expert in geology, but it would be safe to think that gravity would have a part, if you look at the oceans floor, there is evidence that when the poles change, that the rock are affected. apparently, according to scientists, they say that change is happening again. also, there are websites indicating where the magnetic poles are moving. i have some charts somewhere but not handy. personly, it's impossible for anyone to really know what will happen come this point in time. i doubt much, other than the northern lights, maybe the earth rumbling a little more, and that all stands to reason, but we'll see when the time comes.

[Paul Stevens]

gravity has almost nothing to do with the hydrological cycle

How would it work in the absence of gravity?

[Jan]

I was talking about the other causality. I meant that the hydrological cycle does not influence gravity - i.e. that e.g. the mass of the water in the ocean has almost no influence on what is going on under the sea bottom (I say almost because the water pressure does have some impact on the rocks beneath, but only very small).

Of course that gravity is one of the main forces driving hydrological cycle (together with the Sun energy). Perhaps I didn't express it clearly - sorry for that. The problem is that I have only a little idea of what Chaos Shaman is talking about - my mistake, perhaps.

[Chaos-Shaman]

who knows, liek it has only been recent that it has been know about volcanic, big ones, erupting deep on the oceans floor, thought to be impossible because of the gravity thing, but not so, and under the arctic ocean, there is a vast stretch of volcanoes, active, that when it's in the real active phase, could warm the arctic ocean just a little, causeing some ice melt, the so called global warming thing is just crap. Where is that greenhouse gas right now?? and if they say it's la nina, how ever spelt, that is crap too, because you can say that about the el nino. i just love all these scientific assumptions from some people who think thier mere 30-50 years of knowledge knows how the planet works, hahahaha, like that is not realistic at all. it's still a guess that the earths core is compressed iron. man is meant to guess i guess, hehehe, anyway, i am enjoying this topic. the earth is a bit more active than usual, i doubt anyone will dissagree here. but that does not mean the end of the world. anyone who uses fear to coerce others into their way of thinking is not someone to believe. i do think the earth is undergoing a phase of some sort, but who knows what it all means.