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Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:32 pm
by Ian Clark
Alternatively, in some versions, you can kill the dragon by falling on top of him through a pit on the level above. Presumably this is mechanical as the party and a monster cannot co-exist on the same tile.

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 8:02 am
by slickrcbd
I only found out about that on accident something like 20 years after I first played the game. Because I got startled by the phone ringing and accidentally hit the wrong direction button, and fell into a pit, then saw the "smoke" you see when a monster is killed, and a bunch of dragon steaks at my feat.

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 2:08 am
by MasterWuuf
Game envy here. I've never had the pleasure of this experience.
Anyone know if you can time a fall through one of the pits above the dragon,
being reasonably sure you'll kill the brute?

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 8:12 am
by Prince of Elves
I suppose you can save your game just before going down a hole and then check where he is in relation to you, checking out the most promising options. May take some reloads but unless he's stationary till you visit him and spawns right under a pit that would seem the best option to me.

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 1:14 pm
by ChristopheF
You should be able to use a Magical Box to freeze time for a few moments

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 6:54 pm
by Gambit37
Andy Jaros recalled the telefrag bug and said it was fixed in later versions. Do you know if that's the case Christophe?

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 11:02 am
by ChristopheF
I checked the source code.
I was wrong saying that you can use a Magical Box, as they only freeze creatures located on the same map as the party.
Creature groups are indeed killed if the party moves over them (by falling in a pit or being teleported), and this is true in all versions of DM and CSB, I did not see any fix to prevent this. So telefrag exists in all versions but is pure luck.

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 3:22 pm
by slickrcbd
Do creatures move on levels other than the one the party is on? I'd think for memory purposes that the game might only concentrate on the current level.
So freezing the creature long enough to get to the stairs might be enough.
On the other hand I find the dragon in a different place every time I play, so that might not be the case.

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 11:15 pm
by ChristopheF
Creatures on other maps use less memory than creatures on the same map as the party: some information like the direction each creature in the group is facing is not stored for them.
Creatures on other maps are always moving, although slower than creatures on the same map as the party, in order to limit CPU usage.
The higher the distance between party map and the creature map, the slower the creature is.

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 3:09 am
by jayrshaw
That's definitely interesting information. It's kind of neat that the monsters are slowly moving around even on lower floors of the dungeon as you are exploring the earlier floors...


--Jay

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 2:24 am
by Paul Stevens
I seem to remember that monsters don't begin moving until the party
enters their level. I am quite certain that *Something* starts happening
when the party enters a level. In any case, leaving a level does not
stop the monsters on that level.

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 7:06 pm
by ChristopheF
Paul is right (as usual). Creatures start moving only when the party enters their map for the first time.
Then they keep moving for the rest of the game, at their normal speed when on the same map as the party, and slower when on another map.

Note however that in CSB, the game is initiated from an actual saved game (not a simple dungeon) in which maps 0 and 9 have already been visited: FTL built the dungeon, then started a new game on map 0 (the initial party location is always on map 0 in a dungeon file) at (17,36). The teleporter there leads to map 9 at (31,36) where the game was saved (this is the MINI.DAT stored on the Utility disk). When you 'Make a new adventure' the party is relocated on map 4 at (31,26).
So when you start playing CSB, creatures on maps 0, 4 and 9 are moving from the start of the game. All other creatures will start moving only after you enter their map for the first time (including the Gigglers on map 7 who trigger the random placement of some items into various locations).

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 4:02 am
by JETENGINE
ChristopheF wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 11:02 am I checked the source code.
I was wrong saying that you can use a Magical Box, as they only freeze creatures located on the same map as the party.
Creature groups are indeed killed if the party moves over them (by falling in a pit or being teleported), and this is true in all versions of DM and CSB, I did not see any fix to prevent this. So telefrag exists in all versions but is pure luck.
Out of curiosity, what happens if a monster group teleports to the same tile as a party if the party already occupies it? Does the party get insta-wiped? Or is the monster group deleted as if nothing happened?

(Also irrelevant, but DM2 allows certain monsters to occupy the same tile as the party. Usually noncorporeal and flying monsters, such as tornadoes and Minions)

Re: Opening Chests

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 12:28 pm
by ChristopheF
If a creature group is teleported to a square containing the party or another creature group, then the group is removed from the dungeon and an event is added in the timeline to retry moving the group 5 clock ticks later. So as soon as the party or the other group leaves the target square, the teleported creature group is moved to that square.