Star Trek Dark

[Chaos-Shaman]

nice.. of course I can reference EVERYTHING about the original series. Trek was my all time fave for decades until movies started coming out like the Matrix. I see you picked out a nice shot of Droxine, she had the hots for Spock, and Spock was looking at her below parts, hehehe, and it wasn't Zenite gas either I know the originals VERY well, that's all we had to watch back then, that or Lost in Space, Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants, Voyages under the sea. there wasn't a whole lot back then that was science fiction.

so there is the problem, you have to be 40 or older to understand the Original series and make comparisons to the new movies, and I can say most youngsters don't have a clue and they were brought up in the era that if you watched Trek that you were a geek and loser, brainwashed out of watching something all because it wasn't TNG. it's what young people do, it all revolves around their time, quite normal behavior, we all did at one point.

I love the originals, always will! there are so many morals to learn from that series it dwarfs todays garbage. I use to collect all things Trek until shamanism made its way into my system. I no longer collect anything or hang any old pictures on the wall, so all my stuff had to go. Trek was the most important philosophy to me when I was a kid.

as I said earlier, I thought they tied everything in well, the special effects didn't amount to much to me, they are a secondary to story and if the viewer doesn't know the old story, they'll not understand the references and it will seem stupid. this is why they need to reinvent like TNG was, the next series should forget all about TNG as well, maybe a few references to the past. it is the only way to keep the following or otherwise it will considered a geek show for trekies, and it shouldn't be trekkies, the original was as Nimoy has said, it is TREKKERS.

i'll have a look at the posts a bit later. I could talk Trek for years.

[cowsmanaut]

yes, and I should say, that Trek did indeed take on a whole lot of serious issues through out their life as a TV series.. I didn't mean to negate any of that.. but, the movies in particular did not do much of that. They were fun adventure rides.. at least any of the good ones.. Which is what I was more pointing out.. that, and the fact that if you really wanted to.. you could tear apart much of the series for the same reasons as sited before.. .. you know... if you wanted to. Or you could just shut off your brain and enjoy the ride and try to find the redeeming elements within as we've always done with Trek movies and shows..

on a side note, isn't it common for the ST films to have a success and a flop and then a success.. and so on?

[Chaos-Shaman]

well I totally agree with that cows, "I am and always shall be a Trek fan" What are your favorite episodes????? I loved the show, better than most shows that at the time were still black and white, heh, I can't believe that part. look where we are today.

ST films will always need to refer to the old series because it carries the name Star Trek, otherwise it's not Trek and they'll have to call it something else other than ST.

[Sophia]

Cows, this thing where you get on your soapbox and try to carefully (and patronizingly) explain to people how their opinions are wrong and they're just not being "objective" (i.e., agreeing with you) enough does nothing but make you look like a jerk. So don't do that.

In short, don't be this kid:

[cowsmanaut]

Sophia.. That is quite possibly the most offensive thing you could do.. I had to calm down before even responding to this publicly, lest I be tempted to return the favor.. anyway..

I don't care that people like or dislike something, I just care when people crap on something someone worked hard on, by providing arguments that have no basis in fact. Ie the various comments I've addressed above which I've backed up with facts that are easy to research. Do you have a fact that proves me wrong? let's see/hear it.. I'm willing to change my views towards a compelling argument.

In fact that's what I've already done, and I've said as much. I said that I was inclined to hate the movie as well as an avid Trek watcher. I stopped watching Voyager just now, only to respond here.. I occasionally go through the various movies and series to see if there are new levels to appreciate or not.. Something the writers do, is often hide little references to things in a minor statement, or name of a character that are there for a few to discover. But I digress.. My point is, that I changed my views through research, which was prompted by the clear fact that these films come highly rated (above all those that came before) by various critics and as I mentioned, my wife who had only ever seen the original series a few times when she was younger, etc. How could a room filled with people like something while I sat there feeling angry? oh gee.. I was biased.

It's not the end of the world to be biased.. but it's quite another to deny it when evidence points to the contrary.. if you liked the original much better.. that's fine.. you are entitled. Doesn't mean the latest version is junk. Nor is it a reason to suggest those involved are incapable. I don't think such a statement should make me a "jerk"..

Note that I didn't say that the plot was the strongest thing I've ever seen.. I've only pointed out, same issues exist with pretty much all of the others. I didn't say that women randomly disrobing made any logical sense.. I just said it again doesn't differ from the previous iterations of Trek.. and on and on I went.. The issue is with the argument that those things prove it's inferior to the preceding movies and shows. The fact's don't show that... at least not so far... and again.. I'm willing to hear any evidence that I've missed...from anyone.. just not interested in intentionally hurtful retorts. This should be a debate, not a "who has the sharpest stick" event..

[Chaos-Shaman]

to debate with wooden swords is the best kind of debate, using name calling does not help a debate and it shows a break down of the will to debate. the original Treks were corny, just the way I like them, and they sort of brought that corn into the new movies, that's Trek. i'll ask you once more cows, what was your favorite episode in the original series? I too am a trekker gone crazy. when I met my spouse, I was dressed in a Trek uniform at a Halloween party, so Trek played a big role in my life and I wouldn't be here today if I didn't wear the uniform, it just so happens my spouse likes corn too

[cowsmanaut]

Agreed, fully corny.. and though I do prefer the original wrath of khan to the current version (surprised?) I'm not afraid to say it's simply because it's the version I saw first and grew to love, and I would have rather not have them switch roles for the ending... and I hate the comments in the link I posted, but mainly I hate them for being true.. but I really shouldn't.. there exists a movie, it's been labeled the worst movie of all time, and it has a HUGE cult following, they have public showings, the creator even goes to conventions and is cheered and congratulated for making the worst movie ever and it's not meant as insult really.. he even enjoys the attention.. so there is a place for the strange stories with holes in the plot as big as the moon.. Hell, most of us are in love with a game that's from the 80's that is so steeped in nostalgia that it's hard to separate from the obvious dated elements of it.. and why not?

So yeah, I like almost all the Trek stuff.. I think the first movie is hard to digest, and the undiscovered country is more than a little dry as well.. but most really have some various redeeming factors.. I don't know if I can really pick an episode or movie that sits as a favorite though. I have to go back through the original series still, it's been a while.. I'm working my way there.. went through STNG, then Enterprise, now almost done Voyager, I may do original trek next.. I think while I don't really have a favorite episode, I do have some well loved characters..

I liked mcCoy a fair bit, and they've done a reasonable job at trying to capture him in the latest version. Pragmatic, sarcastic.. and even a little paranoid. The campy "I'm a doctor not a (insert)" statements have sometimes gone a bit over the top.. but I guess he wouldn't be him without them In real life, I'd say George is a great guy.. I follow his posts on Facebook all the time.. delightfully cheesy.. I have no idea how much time he spends trying to come up with a new pun for every post..

STNG would be a hard one to pick. it had a longer lifespan and had such a great variety.. Q is probably my overall favorite.. but Data, worf, lt.Barclay .. all nice characters..

Voyager, I'd say the Doctor and Belana..

DS9 would be the Doctor and Odo..

enterprise.. Tucker and Flox.. I think Reid shined most when up against Tucker.. their interactions..

favorite captain.. hmm.. I can't pick. but I can say my least favorite were Avery brooks and Scott Bakula.. Loved Scott in quantum leap.. but he always felt a little out of place (to me.. personal thing) in the captains role.. I'm not really sure why.. I could never put my finger on it. He did an ok job at carrying the role but. dunno.. just not as good as others. Avery brooks seems a little insane.. on the series, he shined the most when they were at war.. but before it he seemed really.. just strange..

With the new imaging of the original crew.. they've amped their personalities a bit.. Taken characteristics and pushed them.. The akwardness of Checkov, The cocky nature of Kirk.. the passive antagonism of Spock .. though not sure about this need to have him and uhura together.. after all, wasn't it kirk that she kissed as the first interratial kiss on TV? I get the Darker aspects of Spock as well.. but I still find that nagging bit in the back of my head saying.. "That's not spock" .. but he did have his darker moments.. and they've evolved Vulcans and their darker natures over various series and many years. so I'm willing to let it go. The jovial and casual nature of Scotty.. the doctor I already described.. and Uhura.. I think she has a bigger personality than she did in the original.. They've tried to make her more of a forceful character which I don't remember seeing in the original.. maybe I'm remembering wrong.. Though I think she did say someting like "be careful what you wish for" in one of the movies to a guy before they held him up with a gun.. so .. I don't suppose it's too off base for her to be capable of it.. I think she was just more composed.. Sulu.. well.. aside from his sword swining and messing up the "parking break" they really haven't explored his character..

[Chaos-Shaman]

the HD version of the original series is real nice, all ship and planets, consoles, walls, background etc have been updated.

first movie, motion picture I liked except the slow entrance to Vger, it just took too long and I fall asleep almost every time, but the story for that one is excellent, it was executed poorly.
at first I only liked just spock, as a kid I was always pretending to be like him. but as time went on I learned to like shatner, bones grew on me, it all came together. the worst episode I thought was Cats Paw and the last one made, it was real bad, idea was cool, only thing good about that one is the ending with the two squid like creatures dying. that is some good corn there. I liked all the trek series except DS9, as you mentioned Avery just didn't cut it well enough but he did play a good battle Captain., getting use to the way he talks was difficult.
my fave one is hard to pick, here are the ones I'm thinking of.

Balance of Terror
Mirror Mirror
Enterprise Incident
City on the Edge of Forever
Devil in the Dark
Dooms Day Machine
Gamesters of Triskellion

oh there are others but they are not popping in my head right now, kinds hung over.

so my favorite character would be the one that has the most corn, the original Captain. I love bills overacting, he grew on me.

actually Uhura was a feisty character in quite a few episodes. she didn't take any shit from anyone except the Captain of course.

[Wizard Zedd]

I too am a Trek fan...watched the originals (series & movies). Would say the first movie was my least favorite, but I loved the new one. I thought they captured the spirit of the characters really well - especially Bones As for the second one...did not stand up to the original Wrath of Khan, in my opinion.

As for a favorite original episode (not as big a fan as you Chaos-Shaman, as I do not know the names of the episodes) I really like the one with Joan Collins in it where Kirk & Spock go back in time and Kirk falls for her (no surprise there). I think my favorite for the corn factor would be the one where they steal Spock's brain - I am laughing now just thinking about it

I hope they continue to make more ST movies, but would like to see more attention paid to story line and not just special effects.

[Chaos-Shaman]

the one you are referring to is City on the Edge of Forever most people pick that as their faves. Spocks Brain is a good one, it is real corn but it does seem to go along with the male\female scenario we have going in the forum. the tough males were above in the cold, the females below had power of the males, it's a perfect example how the females had the controller and the males stood around, dumb and obedient.

[beowuuf]

If you have many, many hours I would still recommend the Mission Log podcast, where under the blessing of Gene Roddenberry two guys are watchign every single episode of Star Trek in akll it's forms and seeing if they still hold up today, and giving some background infos. They have just finished watchign the original six films, after watching the three original series and two animated series. Interesting to be reminded of it all, and also have freesh eyes on the original films, all in one go like that. TOS finished...TNG next!

[Wizard Zedd]

Beowuuf - I just checked out the Mission Log podcast site and it seems to be quite interesting. I have only listened to a couple and you are right it would take a great deal of time to get through them all. I think I will continue to listen to them here and there as they do serve as a great reminder of the episodes/movies. Thanks for sharing