Dungeon Master Forum

@cow: keys are getting me to move much quicker with a little training in my opinion. But that may not be true for everyone around here...

Regards, PitD

PitD: Keys just ARE faster!

Glad you back me up ;o) Just answering in return to cows' opinion that keys are not needed any more for newer games... I disagree, at least to the extent of saying they are a nice goodie, even if not the only solution.

Regards, PitD

I think what cow was saying was that you dont need the direction arrows and everyone uses the arrow keys on the keyboard and not onscreen

yes,, I was saying the arrows on the screen.. the movement icons. Those are not needed as most people use the keyboard to move around. I can't remember the last time I used the on screen buttons in DM.

moo

Well, I do use them sometimes, if I'm not engaged in combat and need one hand to do something else than gaming, like scratching my head. But that's all I ever use the screen-movement-buttons for, to scratch my head

Hmm. With the normal DM for PC version I have to use them... since there's no numeral section on the notebook... that's why I only play with CSBwin these days

Regards, PitD

well the arrow keys work too. Not just the number pad

And in RTC you can change the insert, home, etc to the movement keys or to quick spell keys so again.. there is annother option.

moo

DM for PC certainly does not - so I get no 6 "useful" keys near each other to work. CSBwin works fine - and RTC can "only" align those keys to either runes or movement - but since the keys don't lie next to each other on the notebook it is most impractical to play so I use the mouse. If they could be assigned completely free - well, that would be a different thing.

Regards, PitD

but if you set them to movement then you are simply doing spells as you normally would with the mouse anyway. So setting it to movement shouldn't be an issue I would think. Especially when it's the only way of having quick movement keys at your disposal.

However, for my Amiga when playing DM I didn't know about the num pad also being used for that so I used the movement keys instead and only clicked when I needed to turn.. I got fairly good at navegating the dungeon without turning. Then I discovered froma friend that the numeric keypad also worked and then I was unstopable

moo

Hehe, people appear to be using the dungeon maker thread for movement discussion.

True, the problem ist still that I'm used to j,k,l etc. from CSBwin and my reactions are less good when I have to search the movement keys or do it by mouse. It's possible, no doubt, but less fun. That's all.

Regards, PitD

errr, just a personal idea.. why -again- should we use square move ?
i can hear some "addicted to original gameplay" people screaming around

i've seen you're using "severance : blade of darkness" textures for some walls : do you remember the 'enemy camera lock' in this game ?
here's a possible adaptation for DM :
+ if you use the 4 arrow keys (forward, backward and strafe) and a freelook with the mouse. if some creature's approaching, just press -errr... let's say- 'right ctrl' to switch in 'lock mode', the camera automatically focuses on the creature and the mouse pointer appears.
+ in this mode, you can click all the icons you want for attacks or spells and you can move around the creature or go backwards to prevent from hurts with the arrow keys at the same time.
+ if there are several creatures, you can switch the lock between them by pressing right-ctrl at any time because the camera automatically focuses.
+ if you need to retreat, just press another key... for example 'right shift', you leave the lock mode and can run to a safe place.

do you think that's another game i'm talking about or some possible gameplay evolution ?

I dont think its as much "original gameplay" as it is functional.

Free movement would be nice but is it really appropriate for a game such as dungeon master? The game has 4 party members all aligned in the square, if you had free movement your characters would have to fall out of formation or end up inside a wall.

What you say about attacks is true but you can move and attack on dungeon maker. I am doing it all the time, As from what you say about locking on individual creatures, that could be misleading because of the formation, spells and missle weapons are fired depending on the characters position. Some nice ideas there and i agree, we shouldnt be hung up on original gameplay, however........i really love dungeon master and i like clones to be as much like the real thing as they can! while discarding outdated graphics and improving on other things

^ forgot to sign in ^

Sorry to answer again but i had some new ideas !

Team formation could look like a square into a circle. You're a virtual fifth person, centered. There's a minimal distance (i.e. the radius) between you and walls/obstacles to prevent heroes going inside but they can hit their head on

About team fighting, there can be 2 cases :

- Locking a single creature. Everybody aim the creature for attacks or spells. When it attacks your team, the creatures randomly chooses left or right to hit an hero on the first line. If it cast fireballs, the explosion can hit the other heroes but with less power.

- Locking several creatures. The camera locks on the center of a circle surrounding the creatures close to each other. I suppose that our heroes are enough intelligent to aim more or less the best enemy they can see "nearly in front of them". This capacity can depend on their fighter/ninja ability.

Here's some example i made with a screenshot from "Enclave" game. I added some fake interface : heroes on the right can attack the little orc, heroes on the left can attack the armoured creature on the horse.

(dunno how to post images here)
http://redribbon.planet-d.net/dm/example.jpg

something like that in conjunction with hot keys would be good. for example clicking on the hand and then 1-4 to do any of the following options if you know them off by heart.. it's all about the speed of use..

This would be a considerable disadvantage if you specialize in tactics rather than speed and might unbalance a game... something that DM manages very well...

Regards, PitD

@cowsmanaute : i don't think too many hotkeys are good for an action-rpg game (this is how i consider DM) : more precisely, we're in lock mode on the image, if mouse pointer goes over Daroou's sword, the icon grows and prints the attacks you can do with (i.e. you didn't click on it yet), and then you click to choose swing/parry/chop.. one click = one hit = speed

@pitd : colour circles under the creatures are only here to show -you- guys what i imagine. you do not "select" a creature with the mouse, this in -not- strategy rpg here, but realtime action. But you are right, there's a little tactical way of fighting because you can strafe around the group of creatures you locked.

if you like WIP stuff, you'll find some portraits i'm penciling at the moment : more will come.
http://redribbon.planet-d.net/dm

cya.

Hi MAD MONKEY and the rest of the forum, I see by your screenshots that you have ripped them from my site. All artwork is copyright material of MAJESTIC STUDIOS and as so you are in danger of being taken to court for copyright theft. I therefore advise you to refraim from using the content and destroy all art work assigned to DUNGEON MASTER 3D.

That said I can see by your screen shots that you are doing well, are you a programmer, game desiner etc, if so do you wish to work on DUNGEON MASTER 3D??

Heed the warning.

Regards

Steve Bovis - DIRECTOR MAJESTIC STUDIOS

For all at the forum here is my link so you can see what MAD MONKEY has ripped off -
http://www.geocities.com/stevebovis/Dun ... er_3D.html

Thats a bit unfair, We havnt ripped anythink from you apart from the inventory background pictures which is changed now anyway and was only for testing when we did use it, it was never released to anyone.

If you feel we have used anythink else which im not aware of please let me know.

you have ripped the inventory screen, the placements of the players, red,green,blue,yellow.

Copyright theft is NOT a game. Ring FACT federation against copyright Theft and see what they have to say.

You have been warned!!!



Steve Bovis - DIRECTOR MAJESTIC STUDIOS

Im not sure what you getting at, if your saying we arnt allowed to use any thing that what in Dungeon Master (FLT game) which is where alot of the layout has come from and not Dungeon Master 3D as im sure your also just using the same ideas as was in the original Dungeon Master game. I admit we did have the background picture from your inventory screen but that has since changed and the layout of the inventory is somethink wishbone did ages ago (around a year and a half and was based on Dungeon Masters layout). Apart from that one picture i do not see any resembalance between the two games.

Please lets sort this out as Dungeon Maker is only a hobby game If you do infact own the rights to the original Dungeon Master then please let me know and we will have to rethink the layouts of Dungeon Maker.

Regards

MadMunky

SBovis, you yourself are upon copyright infringement yourself. That which you claim is your own is far from. Give up before you further embarass yourself.

You can not claim copyright on a layout that is not your own and in fact has been done and redone over and over by so many people. The inventory screen itself is also based on DM. Much of the graphics in their game at different points came from myself many of which were done long before your game and several from other sources. It's constantlyh evolving and things are filling places for testing only.

Next you will be claiming ownership on the runes from DM too perhaps? How about you contact FACT and see what Andy Jaros and Wayne Holder have to say about your blatant ripoffs? Without their authorization, there is no chance of you making money from your game. Without showing that you can claim rights to release this artwork based on DM for sale you can not prove loss of income. So in which case there is no real recourse for you. You really should get to know copyright laws a little better before throwing idle threats around.

I really do not apreciate unwarranted threats on my forums. The only original artwork from your game has been removed. Beyond that you have no place to poke.

moo

SBovis: I'm quite astonished: First you create a Dungeon-Master CLONE and then claim copyright ownership for things you yourself have cloned? As has been said here before, the layout of almost every DM clone ever created including yours is based solely upon the creative genius of FTL, a genius you cannot claim to be yours.

Besides: Have you ever tried talking to people before threatening them? No? Do so, it works usually, really!

Quod licet Iovis, non licet bovis.

well, i don't think i'll get new answers about my ideas for enhancing DM

Linflas: I'm very sorry that this thread went so far off-topic. But I don't think that we are unable to get back to topic again

then i'll make a new one if you don't mind

I don't mind, indeed I encourage you to do so.

Good for you Cowsmanaut, I would have said the same things to Mr. S Bovis.

What a load of old tosh: Mr. Bovis, your own web site infringes copyright as you have stolen images from Raven Games "Hexen" and your screen shots appear to use textures from Epic Games "Unreal". Additionally, how can you claim the "copyright" on the positions of icons on screen? If it were possible to really copyright such a thing, there would never have been any such thing as Eye of the Beholder, Captive, and all the other DM clones. If iD software could copyright the position of their gun in Doom, do you think we'd ever had seen the likes of Half-Life, Unreal, Deus Ex and the whole FPS genre...? Get a grip dude, and spend some time finding out exactly what is covered by copyright. Worst case of pot,kettle and black that I've seen for quite some time.

Are you intending to release your game as a commercial product? If so, I think that Wayne Holder, who still owns all copyrights on Dungeon Master, will be very interested to see your project.