Dungeon Master Forum

Well, there are many ways for the tale to end, and many ways to incorporate new characters.... let's see how this goes, shall we?

Let's make sure player confusion is separate from character confusion. Well, as much as it's supposed to be

so, erm...so the memories of entering the dungeon and fighting all the monsters and sticking together as a group and stuff...that was what really happened?

As far as you and Ameena know. They truly feel like her real memories right now, and the old stuff seems like some odd dream that sometimes doens't make sense (after all, didn't Helm say he just met her a few days ago, even though she remembers meeting Helm weeks ago?)

And the being zapped by the Grey Lord/Lord Chaos was what knocked everyone out and messed up their memories?

Indirectly, yup. Directly, the fact that Ameena's memories of past, present and future combined as she got knocked through time. Essentially, the mechanics might become clear as the party get to realise it as a whole and investigate it. However, you can imagine that being pushed back in the past, and having memories that end on that day and yet stretch for two weeks in the future in a way that shouldn't be possible, means the brain has to do something pretty drastic to stop itself from going insane. Hence the dizziness and sickness as the party occasionally get memory leaks, and hence the very rare intuition about situations.

Note that the first time you guys slept, your brains pretty much tried to work it all out, and decide which set of memories were real or not....and I think to a character each decided to ignore the 'false' memories and concentrate on the hear and now

You could perhaps suppose that time travel is a very bad thing, and so there are some reasons why the magic users found their memory of magic was also instinctively crushed by their own brains. You could also guess that Ameena, being so intimitely linked to everyone she meets, would perhaps have the most shock about knowing and not knowing people, to the extent her mind would sort of try to 'reboot' and stop her remembering anyone since comign into the wider world.

And that reference to carrying her proper stuff again...is that something she remembers doing, or does she actually have all her stuff (whatever it might have been) right now as she's standing in front of Lord Chaos?

The second. In this version of time travel, and character's body can't go through time. So what happened is that the characters found their midns i nthe state of past and future collided, and their 'new' bodies disappeared and their old bodies transported into place.

Hence everyone was teleported in the simple clothes they might have been wearing, say, during a later evening. That's right, the person who stole the charcter's equipment and made them forget things was...the characters. And the inherent 'rules' of nature as applied to such an unnatural act

And since she only made a short hop through the doorway in the first place (as mentioned, not quite enough for all of her tail to come through), does that mean her tail still protrudes through the wall of darkness/coldness into the room where Darke and Helm can see it, or has she actually fully teleported?

The sucking reference was to imply she got pulled fully through once the odd area fully got hold of her. Infact, Ameena might soon find out that she is not exactly where she should have ended up...

Well, whatever's happened, I can at least make a fairly detailed enough post for now . Oh, and yaay, I rolled a 1 on the cold damage

Indeed, and this explanation is kinda the last thing my brain can write tonight. Got back an hour ago, and boy do I need to get sleep for work tomorrow!

Will try to update at lunchtime, since I snuck in the main group's update.


Yell if there is anything else not quite clear, though I might go back to being coy since there are certain thigns you players and especially your characters need to learn on your own

Oh gawd, the complexities of time travel, lol - I hadn't even considered that that might be involved somewhere. I've already decided, years back, that if I ever write a story of my own, there will be absolutely no messing around with the timelines whatsoever, lol - it seems like something that 's too easy to get wrong, and mess up previous storylines, etc, or introduce loads of accidental plot holes by having stuff happen which interferes with stuff that's already happened, and stuff.
Umm so...they all first went to the dungeon two weeks ago and went through it and did all the stuff with Gholst/Theron and Grey/Chaos, and all got knocked out but somehow they got knocked back in time...or forward in time...and ended up in that room, but they lost their memories of the expedition in the dungeon and only remember up till before they decided to go there because their brains would explode, or something? And for some reason they don't have their stuff because...no wait that doesn't make sense...if they'd been in the dungeon when their heads got messed up, none of the others would have probably left their stuff just lying around somewhere. And anyway, Ameena wouldn't leave her stuff lying around anyway, because she has to be always ready to just leg it somewhere in case someone unpleasant finds her. Not that she would have been carrying anything of any particular value - maybe a few random trinkets (mainly little bits and pieces that other people might find interesting - stuff she can give away or trade for food or whatever) and some food and water, and most likely a knife or two.
But anyway, yeah, so umm...I'm still kinda confused about the order in which stuff happens, now that you've brought in the dreaded words "time travel", lol.

Oh yes, that as a big warning never to do timetravel by a respected DM recently. He was quite right too

My only saving grace is, this particular encounter aside, you are exploring a new timeline and past and future selves aren't colliding, or anything weird like that. You are erasing your previous history.

The bad side is everything else - as you say, keeping track of the old future, the recent past and the recent past as the character knows it, etc. It is far too easy to get wrong, and it is sheer hubris to attempt it.

The reason I landed on it was I thought it would be a fun difference to the noraml ressurect/reincarnate (that everyone would assume had happened), gave me good wiggle room to leave you guys as blank slates during the shaky start but be able to firm everything up once you guys gelled and figured your characters out, and also allowed a reason do a few mechanical things - a) speed you through levlling, as low levels can be fun but also painful in D&D b) ape the fast health/food/water and need for sleeping slot in DM

Kinda left that second one aside, narratively justified by your characters accepting a timeframe instead of being in this dithering state....you bodies aren't being magically pulled in an accelerated future connection or whatever the tech would be


Lol, the time travel works like this:

Four week ago, bad things started happening
Two weeks ago, a first wave of stuff started occurring based on that (like Deephold getting to Mount Anaias). Ameena had just met Helm the previous evening, Westisan and Aurek would have been happily in their order, Haynuus would have . Ameena won't keep her stuff with her at all time all the time - I'm sure you can figure out the narrative reason she would have taken stuff off to look through, dry out, etc.
'Now' (Where Ameena is), Westian was dispatched to find Deephold and solve the Anaias mystery, met up with you lot, and you guys found a really screwed up situation, did a good job, but Chaos was about to get freed.

The Grey Lord threw you guys into two weeks ago. By the mechnics of how this works in the DM world, your bodies get thrown into a limbo, and instead you inhabit your old bodies in the new space (effectively a teleport). And your old brains and new brain duke it out until you figure on a reallity.

So that's where it has landed. Aside from a few weird perception issues (both recall events that haven't happened, and thinking events happened further in the past than they have), time travel wise nothing should get too botched. Ok, it probably will keeping the perceived time line going.

Anyway, is that clearer? Ameena's been living two weeks in the past without realising it - Helm's occasional references should have been a clue.

Anyway, after the LC encounter, hopefully it won't be as big an issue again.

Lol hopefully - still doesn't make complete sense, with time travel being done slightly differently in this version - people's minds moving into different versions of their own bodies is something I've not come across before .
So if all everyone's done is shifted back a couple of weeks, how come that wiped memories of things they've known for years, like spell runes and old friends and stuff? Well, alright, apart from the mechanical reason that it would mean the casters would be able to cast spells above the level they're supposed to be at in a new game that starts from scratch like this one did .
So if they all went into the dungeon now, and met Grey/Chaos and got thrown back two weeks, presumably two weeks ago they weren't in the dungeon, so how come their bodies were when they woke up there at the start of the game? Or were their bodies transported from whatever location they'd been at to the starting room? In which case, what would have happened in whatever locations they were at before? Would they just seem to have suddenly disappeared on the spot? And how come everyone just so happened to be completely without their stuff at the exact same moment? And how come Ameena's apparently got all her stuff back now? She's back in the body she had when she was in the dungeon at the confrontation with Theron/Gholst and Grey/Chaos right before they all got thrown back in time? I'm guessing that Ameena may not be here in this room with Chaos for very long (for whatever reason ), because otherwise we'd need to come up with whatever Ameena would therefore be carrying .
One other thing - if Ameena's memories have now returned, does that include all the memories she lost of her old friends and other people she knew? I realise it would mess with the mechanics a bit for her to remember/regain any skills and stuff she had before, although since she's hardly an old murafu, she probably doesn't have too much further to go to get back to whatever level it was that she might have been before all this kicked off (or at least, before she went on a dungeon crawl and then got moofed to two weeks ago ).
I think I'm doing all the weird time-travel-induced head-fookery on Ameena's behalf here, since the Murafu are, in essence, fairly simplistic folk in their ideals and lifestyle, so stuff like this wouldn't even occur to them (well, time travel didn't even occur to me until you actually mentioned it, lol). If someone tells Ameena she's been bouncing around the timelines, assuming she can even grasp the concept of time travel, she'll probably class it as something too complicated to understand and mentally stash it away somewhere, probably at the back of the compartment containing all the weird intricacies of human (and other species) behaviour she's encountered over the years and failed to understand .

Technically speaking alot of your questions should be found out as a player and a character, but since it sounds liek it might impede your gameplay, I'll answer them as well as I want to (and am able to) :p

Ameena wrote: people's minds moving into different versions of their own bodies is something I've not come across before .

Think quantum leap, except since it's only ever you, you don't swap bodies, you put the alternate body in 'storage'. Since you shouldn't be able to go back again, technically your future body should just be gone, along with the link to the split off future. Should...

Ooh, or think of it like Groundhog Day, except each time Bill wakes up, he can't quite remember stuff, and he wakes up in the place his body ended up in (though still the correct body for that past)

So if all everyone's done is shifted back a couple of weeks, how come that wiped memories of things they've known for years, like spell runes and old friends and stuff?

Partially shock, and partially the natural way the mind recognises the sheer wrongness of the action and compensates. The shock is that since there are two states in mind simultaneously, then it shuts itself down to a save previous point - except, of course, the brain isn't really capable of intelligently cutting back to a place, so it sorta shuts down alot of memory, and slowly the mind then reknits itself - or tears itself apart.

The magic thing is a very specific thing. Because magic is the key to travelling backwards, then the mind comprehends this on some basic level, and simply shuts down any magical ability. Luckily, since the party did not cause the spell, then relearnign the magic will lead to no sudden memory of castign the spell that might tear their mind's delicate balance apart. If the grey lord had sone this to himself... well...

In your case, remember it was actually your choice to not remember your friends. I went along with it, because it seemed logical. You seemed to portray the murafu as so linked with their friends, that any weird harmful occurance in the human world would very likely see the mind regress to a safe time of only murafu, if even that, for fear of recalling conflicting things about peopel they had met.

Well, alright, apart from the mechanical reason that it would mean the casters would be able to cast spells above the level they're supposed to be at in a new game that starts from scratch like this one did .

Nope, I really need narrative first. If I actually wanted you guys at level 1, and for levelling up to be that fast, I would just have said some narrative reason for that being how it just works in this world.

So if they all went into the dungeon now, and met Grey/Chaos and got thrown back two weeks, presumably two weeks ago they weren't in the dungeon, so how come their bodies were when they woke up there at the start of the game?

As I said in the previous post, it was a teleport. The bodies in whatever state they were in at the time get pulled to where the mind thinks there were - past and future collide!

In which case, what wouldave happened in whatever locations they were at before? Would they just seem to have suddenly disappeared on the spot? And how come everyone just so happened to be completely without their stuff at the exact same moment?

They would have disappeared. To anyone in the past, its exactly liek a teleport. Suddenly Haynuus, Westian, Ameena, Falkor and Aurek would not be where they had been a moment before. Luckily, all your guys would be likely to have been alone. I think I mentioned this above aswell, it would have been late evening. No one wears heavy armour while sitting down to read before bed, or while lying in a bale of hay in a tavern, etc. You are the only one to have expressed Ameena never removing items, and since it's unlikely she would NEVER remove items, thenI'll just leave you to come up with the reason why, at that point in time, she'd temporarily removed her pouches - to clean them, dry them, inspect them because she just got a pile of things, because she had to sneak throguh a tricky hole and knew her pouches needed to go first or else they would catch. Many reasons.

And how come Ameena's apparently got all her stuff back now? She's back in the body she had when she was in the dungeon

Exactly. Basically, there are two timelines. The one Ameena first experienced, which has now been split form a new timeline, where Ameena goes back. Ameena's previous future body does not get pulled back - it just ceases to be if she leaves the future timeline. And she gets her previous body back. If, as shouldn't happen, she gets pulled back into the future, then her old body disappears in the altered past, and she gets her original future body back from limbo.

I'm guessing that Ameena may not be here in this room with Chaos for very long (for whatever reason ), because otherwise we'd need to come up with whatever Ameena would therefore be carrying

No need to metagame it, she has what she has. I know what's in the dungeon, I can tell you what she's likely to have found, and you can say whether she owuld have kept it if needed. Similarly, she will currently be level 8, but that only becomes relevant when a skill or something else would be required.

If Ameena found a way to retain her future body in the past, then she'd be level 8 with cool stuff. Of course, you can guess that by the way I've stated certain things, that's highly unnatural. Leaving aside that you, as a player, would have to do somethign spectacular to accomplish the even more twisted method, you canimagine something even more unbalancing may have significant - even fatal - consequences. Afetr all, you're only shoving memories around between the future and past. If you foudn a way to take realy existing items back...hmm, that sounds very destabalising....

One other thing - if Ameena's memories have now returned, does that include all the memories she lost of her old friends and other people she knew?

She got them back anyway, I did say that back when she started recalling meeting Helm and the others she was also remembering people she previously met. I left previous meetings to you, and only stipulated her odd memory with Helm just to make sure you didn't act on something that you should have known about Helm.

I realise it would mess with the mechanics a bit for her to remember/regain any skills and stuff she had before, although since she's hardly an old murafu, she probably doesn't have too much further to go to get back to whatever level it was that she might have been before all this kicked off (or at least, before she went on a dungeon crawl and then got moofed to two weeks ago ).

It was the choice I gave you all, in a very subtle way, when you first slept, or somewhere close to that. If you had chosen to recall your future life, you would ahve gotten much better echoes of where you were, and severe deja vu,. and I may well have given you several levels. Just your mental stability would have been in the toilet. As it was, you guys all clung to your past, so you lost your potential ability increase and knowledge fountain, but stopped being at the mercy of potentially dangerous will checks, etc

I think I'm doing all the weird time-travel-induced head-fookery on Ameena's behalf here, since the Murafu are, in essence, fairly simplistic folk in their ideals and lifestyle, so stuff like this wouldn't even occur to them (well, time travel didn't even occur to me until you actually mentioned it, lol). If someone tells Ameena she's been bouncing around the timelines, assuming she can even grasp the concept of time travel, she'll probably class it as something too complicated to understand and mentally stash it away somewhere, probably at the back of the compartment containing all the weird intricacies of human (and other species) behaviour she's encountered over the years and failed to understand .

Probably for the best, as I'm explaining too much to you in a way, as your character should not know this, and as a player alot of this is basically the 'why are we here' driven.

Still lots to work out, as of course the first time through you guys missed stuff. So,for example, notice you have no clue who the ghost girl is?


Speaking of RP and what Ameena knows, note this is a chance to play a different version of Ameena for a while. She has slightly more skills, has worked with a determined group for a while, seen evil things like Lord Chaos's perverted Pain Rats, probably seen a few victims of the soldiers and Gholst's dedicated followers, etc.

It's liek waking up from a dream. In the dream some things might make sense of not be important, while other things would seem important. In the previous go through, Ameena never met Helm, so would care less about him than her group. Note that, if she goes back int othe past again, this situation would of course try to reverse itself again


Ok, so interestingly enough, at the moment Ameena has experienced a linear time progression. She's gone through a dungeon, gone back in time (but to her old body) and now gets to do it over again. Like Groundhog Day, although its a little weird that the rest of ther world hasn't seen things occurring, deep down she's experinced a linear time frame.

Now, imagine there is a living Helm in the future, and Lord Chaos now blows both you and Helm back again int othe diffferent past. Ameena will be ok, as this is just a continuation of the cycle. As long as she gets blown back into the same timeframe again (ie to a point after she left) it's all good.

Now let's think about poor Helm. If he goes back, he's going to have his original never meeting Ameena memories, fighting with his 'having met the Ameena that was changing the past' past memories, only now he's going to have athird set of 'and now Ameena is changign thigns agin' memories. That's three sets of memories, one mroe than he should have in this situation. So yeah, he'd go insane and die.

Baiscally, time travel is BAD. You five guys are barely safe, and there is a small windowof travel - you have gone back to the past, which now moves on in a new direction. You have disappeared fro ma future that will now never happen. As long as you visit that alternate future to check in, or slip back to the past at the point you left, thigns don't go wrong and it's manageable. If you ever tried to visit the new future, or ever tried to go deeper into the past again...

This might not be good.


Anyway, long story short...worry more abotu the High Lord than the mechaincs of it all

Oh, and long answer short - Ameena is now a level 8 rogue (or level 5-7 rogue with other classes added) and has lots of cool stuff.

Oh gawd I'm still confused, lol. I thought she'd just come back to the future now and had been living in the past before since you said they all got thrown back two weeks.
Okay okay, to avoid getting back into the weirdness of it all again and confusing myself even further, I think I'll just stick to Ameena's personal timeline and what she knows right now.
So, she met Helm in the woods at one point, declined the offer to be taken to Viborg, then ended up there anyway durign her own wanderings and met up with Falkor and co. who were about to head into the dungeon to look for the clericy dude (or whoever he is) called Brother Deephold, whom Westian is looking for. I recall that Falkor was looking for someone too but I can't remember . And Haynuus has been hired as Westian's bodyguard, or something along those lines, so is going along to help out in general. Meanwhile Aurek either hasn't left his order yet, or has been sent out in search of Westian as his protector but hasn't found him yet due to not having arrived at Viborg yet. Meanwhile Ameena herself decides to accompany the group because they seem like nice eoungh folks and the chance to visit some weird and interesting-sounding (but not really very dangerous) place inside a mountain sounds like something that no murafu would usually pass up .
So they all head up to Anaias and enter The Dungeon, wherein they find sorts of weird shit going on, dangerous beasty-monsters and all that kind of thing...ohh, what about Aurek? Would he still have caught up to them inside the dungeon in this version and that be why she still has no memory of meeting him in the tavern with the others? And what about Farel? Did they not meet him in this version? And presumably there's no Helm this time either, other than the brief meeting Ameena had with him that one time on the forest road or wherever it will have been.
Now I'll probably need some details on what kind of stuff happened during their rumble in the dungeon - what kind of monsters did they meet? Did they meet any soldiers and were any of them the "named" ones like Brohur, Drommal, Thinpas, etc? What happened in all of these encounters? Not major details of course, since I'm sure that would be far too many pages . More to the point of did they end up fighting, and if so, how/why? Bearing in mind how important personal relationships are to murafu, these are the things Ameena is more likely to focus on mentally - okay so they may have ended up in a fight with a soldier, but was it because, say, Haynuus decided he didn't like him very much and decided to start donking him over the head with things, or was it because the soldier was trying to sneak up and backstab Westian but Ameena saw it and yelled a warning and then charged forward to bite him in the kneecaps, that kind of thing. What kind of relationships would she have formed with each member of the group? And how much will Ameena have learned about the general way of things, ie stuff related to the DM/CSB storyline, the Grey Lord (and his two "other" personalities), Theron, Gholst, etc, bearing in mind she will have known little or nothing about any of these (she will have heard a bit about the whole DM thing in rumour over the time but not gained a major knowledge or really been too fussed about it - like i've been playing her so far, really).
So anyway, after all this, they find out wtf's been going on and end up in a big room somewhere, in a confrontation with the Big Scary Bad Guy, Gholst, who turns out to be hiding in Theron's body, or the other way around. The Grey Lord pops up from somewhere (I'll have to reread that bit since I can't remember, off the top of my head, how he got into the room or whether he was already there in the room when you started describing it) and just as Gholst is threatening to destroy Theron (and presumably take over his body/destroy him completely/become uber/rule the world, or whatever would have happened ), the Grey Lord gets really pissed off which apparently causes him to start to transform into Chaos, at which point he zaps the party and they all completely disappear from the room.
At which point their bodies "disappear" into sort of "magical stasis" (limbo, like you mentioned), while their minds go back in time to two weeks before, which was a point before they entered the dungeon or even met (I think?). Since their "real" bodies are in stasis, their minds need somewhere to go so their bodies-from-two-weeks-ago are plucked straight out of whatever it was they were doing, and dumped unconscious in the four corners of the starting room (or was that the room the confrontation took place and technically they...or at least, their minds...didn't really move through space too much, just time?). Because they wouldn't be able to mentally cope with what happened, each of them blocked out a load of stuff because the mind isn't great at precision when it comes to that. Actually, now I think about it, they can't have just been kept in pretty much the same place they got knocked out because that would mean Aurek would be with them, and he wasn't. So that part's still a bit of a confusion.
So anyway, then they all wake up and we have the adventure as it's been played out so far, with people remembering bits of stuff here and there but nothing too substantial. Presumably Helm and Farel are present in the dungeon because at this point, two weeks ago from the whole Gholst/Theron confrontation, they were actually in the dungeon since Helm travelled straight to Viborg from meeting Ameena and from there ended up getting recruited to go adventuring or whatever .
But now Ameena's stepped through that doorway, it's teleported her mind back to the point in the future shortly after (or immediately after) they all got thrown back in time, while that version of her body goes into stasis and she gets the other one back again. Though she's probably likely to lose it again if she's not too careful in the conversation she's suddenly found herself in .
What kind of stuff will she have in her inventory? Need to sort that if she's gonna start fiddling with ir or whatever.
Wow, this post took nearly half an hour to write. I really have to go to work now but I think I said everything I wanted to. For now . I can't close the forum window like I would normally or all the posts will be marked as read when I look again this evening, so it'll look like I'm online all day but in fact I'm not. See you .

Ameena wrote:Oh gawd I'm still confused, lol. I thought she'd just come back to the future now and had been living in the past before since you said they all got thrown back two weeks.

Sorry if I've been unclear, that's exactly what has happened.

So, she met Helm in the woods at one point, declined the offer to be taken to Viborg, then ended up there anyway durign her own wanderings and met up with Falkor and co. who were about to head into the dungeon to look for the clericy dude (or whoever he is) called Brother Deephold, whom Westian is looking for. I recall that Falkor was looking for someone too but I can't remember . And Haynuus has been hired as Westian's bodyguard, or something along those lines, so is going along to help out in general. Meanwhile Aurek either hasn't left his order yet, or has been sent out in search of Westian as his protector but hasn't found him yet due to not having arrived at Viborg yet. Meanwhile Ameena herself decides to accompany the group because they seem like nice eoungh folks and the chance to visit some weird and interesting-sounding (but not really very dangerous) place inside a mountain sounds like something that no murafu would usually pass up .
So they all head up to Anaias and enter The Dungeon, wherein they find sorts of weird shit going on, dangerous beasty-monsters and all that kind of thing...

All good so far.

ohh, what about Aurek? Would he still have caught up to them inside the dungeon in this version and that be why she still has no memory of meeting him in the tavern with the others?

Obviously he never did, since Ameena will have no previous memory of ever meeting Aurek in her first go around.

And what about Farel? Did they not meet him in this version?

They would have, much further down.

And presumably there's no Helm this time either, other than the brief meeting Ameena had with him that one time on the forest road or wherever it will have been.

Indeed, she never met Helm....although there was a body of someone who had triggered a pit trap in an area near to the mummy hall. They were not able to investigate who it was.

Now I'll probably need some details on what kind of stuff happened during their rumble in the dungeon - what kind of monsters did they meet? Did they meet any soldiers and were any of them the "named" ones like Brohur, Drommal, Thinpas, etc? What happened in all of these encounters? Not major details of course, since I'm sure that would be far too many pages

No you don't. Pplayer knowledge is not character knowledge. Vice versa, character knowledge does not have to be player knowledge. You don't need to have actually studied magic as a player to make a knowledge(arcana) check to see if your character knows stuff. Vice versa, there's no point creating too much information - especially since you know just as well as I the danger of contradicting yourself. It's better as a need to know. If Ameena retains any knowledge back in the old dungeon and meets anyone she might have an echo over, I'll get you to roll or let you know. Just like Helm - I didn't need to reveal you'd met him ahead of time, if you never met him in the game, did I?
In general, assume you met DM like stuff, and I've already detailed the main bosses met in the IC thread. Since you haven't mentioned it after I dropped it subtly, I guess I'd better explicitly state it, in bold.

Brighteyes = Seeroc

Also, Seeroc commands undead that can alter their hideous appearance to that of their target. When they do this, it seems that the person attacking the undead actually hurts themselves.

More to the point of did they end up fighting, and if so, how/why? Bearing in mind how important personal relationships are to murafu, these are the things Ameena is more likely to focus on mentally - okay so they may have ended up in a fight with a soldier, but was it because, say, Haynuus decided he didn't like him very much and decided to start donking him over the head with things, or was it because the soldier was trying to sneak up and backstab Westian but Ameena saw it and yelled a warning and then charged forward to bite him in the kneecaps, that kind of thing.

You're a writer, you figure it out! I've told you the endpoint, since none of the others are around and also not likely to be around, it's pretty wide open. No point in me dictating actions you could say Ameena wouldn't take if I don't have to. I would say things happened exactly as you've pointed out. Yopu might have even gotten into situations similar to the Oitu situation with Helm, except as PCs I'm sure the group would jhave been more helpful. Since I doubt Ameena remembers the name of the mummy encountered, I don't see that her knowledge of the names of foes the party had to deal with would be great. If the party did encounter someone like Passin who they temporarily allied with, I can't see it relevant to the current thing. No point settign it in stone if you aren't going to encounter them - it just stops me being able to throw story points in later on!

What kind of relationships would she have formed with each member of the group?

Exactly the one she started to form, except without whatever then let her just run away from them. Falkor was a halfling that she could speak to and was a fellow back row person, Westian was the relatively honerable and talk things through 'leader' who Ameena could ask about, and Haynuus would have been the big friendly giant protecting Ameena and interested in her race.
No point in me dictating other people's characters reactions, especially if it ever happened someone else comes through the rift somehow. If the roles were reversed, you wouln't want how your character would have progressed dictated to you, you'd want to be able to discuss how it happend wiht them given the known end point

And how much will Ameena have learned about the general way of things, ie stuff related to the DM/CSB storyline, the Grey Lord (and his two "other" personalities), Theron, Gholst, etc, bearing in mind she will have known little or nothing about any of these (she will have heard a bit about the whole DM thing in rumour over the time but not gained a major knowledge or really been too fussed about it - like i've been playing her so far, really).

Assume everything, since Westian and Falkor combined pretty much know it all. The only thing that would have bypassed the group is the whole female ghost bit. They would never have foudn the scroll, met the ghost, or heard Gholst's name until much later. As far as they knew, for alot of the time, Theron was still 'in control' of Anaias and for some strange reason you never figured out, had allowed a group of soldiers - around 70 strong - into Anaias.

So anyway, after all this, they find out wtf's been going on and end up in a big room somewhere, in a confrontation with the Big Scary Bad Guy, Gholst, who turns out to be hiding in Theron's body, or the other way around.

Yeah, somewhere in level twelve or thirteen you fought 'Gholst' dressed in the Tazan armour from Theron's Quest. It ended up being an orc disgusied as Gholst, leading the soldiers as a figurehead. Gholst was actually a spirit riding in Theron's body. Theron/Gholst tried to escape, using a shoirt cut back up to the surface that you lot followed.

The Grey Lord pops up from somewhere (I'll have to reread that bit since I can't remember, off the top of my head, how he got into the room or whether he was already there in the room when you started describing it)

The party had, as they progressed downwards, learned there was a thing called a 'soul stone' that should have allowed the Grey Lord to still be connected to the dungeon, and know what was happening there. Just before they contronted Gholst, you guys put it back together knowing the Grey Lord should now feel something was up, and come back. Basically, in great timing just as Gholst was trying ot flee outside the main door, the Grey Lord appeared. Quite dramatic really, pity you guys aren't playing that version Then again, maybe history could repeat itself...

and just as Gholst is threatening to destroy Theron (and presumably take over his body/destroy him completely/become uber/rule the world, or whatever would have happened ),

Actually, Gholst was trying to escape (possibly up the castle, who knows). And he actually did kill Theron, either gambling it might destabalise the Grey Lord, or more likely just as a poor sport.

the Grey Lord gets really pissed off which apparently causes him to start to transform into Chaos, at which point he zaps the party and they all completely disappear from the room.

Precisely!

At which point their bodies "disappear" into sort of "magical stasis" (limbo, like you mentioned), while their minds go back in time to two weeks before, which was a point before they entered the dungeon or even met (I think?). Since their "real" bodies are in stasis, their minds need somewhere to go so their bodies-from-two-weeks-ago are plucked straight out of whatever it was they were doing, and dumped unconscious in the four corners of the starting room (or was that the room the confrontation took place and technically they...or at least, their minds...didn't really move through space too much, just time?). Because they wouldn't be able to mentally cope with what happened, each of them blocked out a load of stuff because the mind isn't great at precision when it comes to that. Actually, now I think about it, they can't have just been kept in pretty much the same place they got knocked out because that would mean Aurek would be with them, and he wasn't. So that part's still a bit of a confusion.

Pretty much for the starting part. The idea is that there is a little bit of dither in where the party would end up. After all, the world turns, there is powerful magic in Anaias that might redirect slightly where the destination would be, etc. As for Aurek...well, all you guys know is that he claims to have woken up in a cell with Farel, and that he had the same memory loss as you, and that he was assigned as Westian's guardian but apparently somehow missed joining up with Westian. As said, you guys never met up with him the firts time around...

So anyway, then they all wake up and we have the adventure as it's been played out so far, with people remembering bits of stuff here and there but nothing too substantial. Presumably Helm and Farel are present in the dungeon because at this point, two weeks ago from the whole Gholst/Theron confrontation, they were actually in the dungeon since Helm travelled straight to Viborg from meeting Ameena and from there ended up getting recruited to go adventuring or whatever .

Exactly! Helm, Deephold and Fex (the guy Falkor refused to go int othe dungeon with) would have just barely entered the dungeon - at best half a day of exploration. Farel would later free himself and do deeper into the dungeon, but had only been captured a day or two ago.
In the first go around, the party would possibly have encoutnered Fex, allied themselves with him for a while, but been tipped off by Falkor's distruct of the mage that the guy was going to betray them. He's not really a nice person, I wonder if you'll ever meet him

But now Ameena's stepped through that doorway, it's teleported her mind back to the point in the future shortly after (or immediately after) they all got thrown back in time, while that version of her body goes into stasis and she gets the other one back again. Though she's probably likely to lose it again if she's not too careful in the conversation she's suddenly found herself in .

Exactly!

What kind of stuff will she have in her inventory? Need to sort that if she's gonna start fiddling with ir or whatever.

No, you need to sort that out exactly if she starts fiddlign with it, and not a moment before Seriously, you know what's in the DM dungeon, and what Ameena would want to wear/use. Assume she would have that sort of items. I can tell you if something isn't likely to be in her possession, or I can tell you how much she would have. More importantly, you need to decide if she would have worn the cloak that Falkor discovered during the game, that Ameena would have been the one to discover the first time around.

Wow, this post took nearly half an hour to write. I really have to go to work now but I think I said everything I wanted to.

You seem to know what's going on, hope I haven't made anything confusing with my clarifications. Don't get too hung up on knowing exactly what memories or items Ameena has right now, as said if it mattered, it might be retconned later, and if it matters now, we can figure out what needs to be known.

Okay, cool, I think I have enough info to be getting along with now. Regarding the possibility of Ameena now wearing the cloak that Falkor found in the two-weeks-ago version, what exactly does it do? I can't fully remember if we know exactly what it does so far, just that Falkor put it on and I think something weird happened (was that when he collapsed and had that weird vision, or whatever it was, of Gholst?), but would they have found out the first time around? Since Falkor can tell whether it's magical (at least, I'm pretty sure he made an Arcana check or something on it and could tell it was at least made by a mage or something), Ameena would be unwilling to wear it if she either didn't know what it did, or thought it might do something harmful (to herself or to anyone else). The same goes for any other items, actually, magical or not - she might carry them if she knows there's no way she can trigger them by accident, but she wouldn't use anything if she knew it would have a bad effect. And anyway, I think the cloak might be a bit big for her, or did it magically resize itself for Falkor this time around? She probably wouldn't want to ditch her comfortable old cloak anyway .
So now she can presumably get all confused about Helm, since now she'll not only remember her recent dealings with him (ie their trip through the dungeon, meeting weird screechy things and being threatened by gaurd with weird names), but also that actually, she did only meet him that one time and that when they parted ways, they didn't meet again...or at least, they haven't yet. I suppose he could still be alive somewhere in the dungeon, as could everyone else she's met so far (ie Drommal, Darke, etc). Hehe that would be funny, she walks along a corridor and runs into one of them and they're like "Omg what are you doing here! I haven't seen you in two weeks!", lol. I'm trying to think whether time could possibly have been messed up by any of this, but so far I don't think there are any inconsistencies. Like, say if that was Helm's body down that pit you mentioned - he could have just been chucked down there by Darke after Ameena didn't come back through the doorway, and therefore be lying there for the group to discover when they come on through the first time. Aaaaw .
So...in future-world (well, present day, I suppose), Ameena only met Helm on that one occasion outside. She only knows Aurek from meeting him in two-weeks-ago-time. And Farel, you said they didn't get round to meeting either?
Anyway, yeah, I think I'd better stop there before I start to get too deep into the whole time-travel-mess thing again .
One more thing, though...
OMG I never twigged that about Brighteyes! Hahaha! Fantastic - I shall now be following the progress of the rest of the group with added amusement . I suppose they'll come across a portal-thingy of their own at some point and end up back in the future as well. Maybe Seeroc will zap them there or something, though somehow I get the feeling that such magic is the domain of only one breed of creature (even if certain individuals of said species can end up splitting themselves into different personalities ). And suddenly it seems that Ameena may not be happily exiting the dungeon after all .
The recent actions of the group in That Fight will still affect her, though. That is, if she mets up with them again. She's still not gonna be happy .
Still, let's see what happens...right, now I can check the IC thread finally .

Time basically split in two branches the moment the party went two weeks back. Nothing in the future Ameena is currently in can be affected by what Ameena has done back in the past. That's the secret of time travel in this world - it really is only good for a person to put themselves back in their own personal time to do things again, yet ironically their brain would then stop them from recalling anything and they would likely make mostly the same choices again.

The fact that four of you were pushed through, and that you weren't the originator of the spell (which would have forced a greater level of forgetfulness) means that you cna make meaningful changes.

The Grey Lord was essentially willingly destroying his reality to create a new one.

Also, there is a danger - ths old future is now defunct. However, at the moment, until you guys bypass it or otherwise neutralise it, your future memories create the portal you've come back on. Bad thigns could happen....


Oh, and don't worry - when you go back in time, the memories flip. So this Chaos confrontation and memories will seem liek the dream, and That Fight will seem more relvant again, as will Helm, etc. However, for the moment it's the other way around

Wooo...more confusion, lol. Well, it will certainly make things interesting if none of the others make it back to the future but Ameena meets with them again and gets to tell them about this weird vision-dream-thingy she had of meeting Lord Chaos in a room while the world had (apparently) been destroyed outside .

And typically you ask for a load of rolls on the same day I have club and been asked to go in to work, so my dice box is in my bag, lol. I'll make my post this evening, when I get home. For the d2 roll I'll just roll any dice and have odds count as 1 and evens as 2.
Regarding the greem gem, was that a serious question or some vague reference to the fact that the green gem the group have just encountered (and I haven't checked that thread since last night so I don't know what's happened since the last time I checked, ie whether they've tried to do anything with said gem)? If the former, then I suppose it is the kind of thing Ameena would carry, as long as it's not ather large and bulky - if it's much bigger than, say, the size of a human fist, she might have trouble fitting it inside a pouch. If no-one had been able to detect any signs of magic from it (or at least, nothing that could be directly triggered by being lugged about in a pouch), Ameena would probably be willing to carry it. If someone had picked up some sign of magic but deemed it either harmful or unknown, she wouldn't take it on account of not wanting to accidentally set it off and do someone an injury.
Tonight I shall post IC and see if Ameena is about to get squished or not. if she rolls even, I'll probably just have her ask one last question or make a politely-phrased comment of some kind - dunno what yet. If I roll odd, Ameena will probably make a super-fast mental working-out of the stuff Chaos said about rifts and tears and going back, combine it with the matural murafu instinct to get away from trouble as fast as possible, and try to make for the doorway she came in by - if the stuff about rifts is true, then she hopes she'll somehow trigger the thing to send her back somehow. If that doesn't work, she can just keep going through the doorway and hope to get away from him somehow - despite her certainties that death probably isn't that far away, if she put a bit of distance between them it might give her the hope that maybe she can get away and find another way back to the past - she doesn't much want to stay where she is, that's for sure .

Nah, the green gem was a reference to buppu sicne you mentioned raistlin

Ok, good luck with your rolls.

Going to bed soon, so I guess I'll be left in suspence until tomorrow as to the fate of Ameena. I suppose serves me right for being evil.

Still, alot of things have culminated into exactly how Ameena is positioned to have come here, and the fact she's come here at all. And I've offered her a 50% chance of instant survival. And as a player you now have alot of useful game knowledge

So If you roll the other option... expect it to be actually tough and potentially fatal! Roll well, and doge alot!

Ameena wrote:Heh, mechanics aside, I don't think failing the Will save made any difference - Ameena's pretty much in Panic Mode now anyway

Well, there's intelligent panic mode and 'you gotta just run' panic mode. I think Ameena will be frightened. She's kinda got away from the source of her fear, but I think the sheer presence of any effects that might lead back to Chaos will also need to be moved away from. Once she's out of sight of anything like that, she can go back to a normal panic mode

Does she take any more damage from Chaos grabbing her arm, btw?

She does, but it doesn't matter because her body is about to be swapped! I'll detail all the psychological and weird temporal effects in a separate post once I finsih answering this one[/quote]

...in your last reply suddenly he's holding her again - whoopsie

Yeah, I did mention I stupidly checked again way to late just to see the result Anyway, easily narratively justified, he simply teleported right back into her face like he did before.

I suppose if the rift thingy (if I understood Chaos correctly, that is, if he was actually telling the truth ) is only active for those who have been thrown through time

If you'd gone another way in dealign with Chaos, and kept him distracted with say questions of the outside world to show you, or just ran away, you might have seen what happens if someone firmly mired in the past tried to come through. Let's just say it's only safely active for those of you who came through. Let's also point out that time travel, in the DM world, is such a huge screwed up thing to do and so dangerous not even Lord Chaos knows much about it, having never been insane enough to do anything, even on a whim

Of course, I suppose she might be teleported through space as well as time, and end up somewhere else.

As if I'd do such a thing!

it will be funny if no-one actually figures the Brighteyes thing out until Ameena shows up and suddenly remembers him. I've been reading it with some amusement, the way the guards are clearly kind of "Umm...Seeroc's acting like he's pretending not to be himself, and he's travelling with a group of strangers who don't seem to know who he is...ummmm...oookaaaay...better just let him get on with it, then..." .

I know, it's great to know that's happenening, and see how it's intepretted by the rest, Of course, with Westian acting decisive, it takes the heat of Brighteyes a little...though Falkor is checking him out, so he might get wise. Then again, will anyone realise Seeroc could be Brighteyes (or even just assume Brighteyes is Brighteyes but made Seeroc up) or just assume the gnome is just a sneak. Who knows!

Anyway, next post for Ameena's current state.

Personally I think I fell into the trap of assuming that Seeroc would most likely be a human, or possibly an elf or similar, rather than a little gnomish fellow - you hear all this stuff about him being so scary and powerful and commanding terrible creatures, being close to the oft-spoken-about-with-dread Gholst, and presumably being in a position of fairly high authority among/above the soldiers, and somehow it doesn't conjure up the image of strange little Brighteyes .
For the "Frightened" thing, do you want me to consider her officially in that state and give her the -2 penalty to all rolls until you say so, or will it wear off once she "lands" and just goes back to being RP-scared?
I suppose stuff like damage taken and the Con penalty and stuff will be dealt with in details you give in your next update so I shall withold further spammage of questions until I see what else I want to know that you've not mentioned .

Right, so as Ameena materialises back in the past again, what does all that mean.

a) You are so lucky. Not goign to begrudge you that, but the party in general seems to be lucky enough to make me think I'm subconsciously skewing things into all your favour a little too much. Which should be fine, except too much and you guys never skirt with enough bad luck ti tbe threatened. We shall see.....

b) Physical effects - nothing really from before except the cold damage, and of course now the single point of drop damage assigned in this starting session. Ameena, physically, will be in the same state as when she went into the rift. The constitution damage (and as it would have been strength damage) from Lord Chaos's attention doesn't carry over to your old body, nor does being flung against the wall. Note that from the trip through the rift, in a strong light Ameena maight spot that the tips of her fur and whiskers might have a whiteness to them.

c) Psychological effects - even though Ameena's right arm is physically fine, she will, for the moment, always feel the pressure of Lord Chaos's arm on it. For the moment she might imagine it injured, but even on healing it just won't feel liek she can use it well. Mechanically, of course she can if she has to so she doesn't slow down nor use items any worse. Like the poioson of course, if you want to play it worse that it is, it's up to you Ameena will also have a greater fear of shadows - not the dark, but actual defined shadows. And finally, when she sleeps she will dream either of the old hurt murafu blaming her in some odd way, or just seeing burning red eyes just at the corner of her sight in the dream, meaning she never sleeps a full cycle and always wakes up from 'night' terrors.

Note that many if not all of these probably have cures, I'm just not goign to exactly tell you what they are right now. Let's not have Ameena skipping merrily back to the party unharmed from crossing space and time and meetng one of the ultimate villains of the DM universe, shall we?

Seriously though, it's up to you if you want to walk arouind with these sort of (perhaps temporary, perhaps not) mental scars for your character, want to give me some equivalent ones of your own, or if you don't think your character would be affected, or affected less severely. You tell me! Just remember Lord Chaos as far as I was always concerned probably had an aura, so even if Ameena doens't understand what she faces, I am sure some racial fears or instincts would realise.

It might even be interesting to combine the memories bit below with various physological effects....the more she picks up (perhaps even as far as still feelign the coldness from the rift all the time) the more she can stay connectd and remembere perfectly her time back in the future. Anyway, we can figure that out overthe next few days!

d) Memories. All alone in the mooooonlight. Etc. Ok, so here's the tricky part, what does Ameena remember. PArt of that is up to you. Once more, Ameena has a choice of where she wants to place her 'feet'. On this side of the rift, the future and the first go round memories will start to seem like a dream, and the memories of this side will start flooding back. Instinctively, Ameena can choose to 'forget' the bulk of the future to protect her sanity, or make an effort of will to reject the memories generated over the game and instead cling on to at least the first go aroudn memories instead. Her mind's managed to stabalise once, it won't want to split again!

Or, very risky, she can try to maintain both at once. Note, this will require both will saves now and in the future, and of course put Ameena under extreme mental stress.

Note that if Ameena rejects the future and first go round memories for the actually real memories of this timeline, then she goes back to normal - as you said, including being more for wondering where Helm is, etc, and probably still wishign to leave. There will be a residual feelign she should be pushing for the others, and she might recall who gave it to her, although she might imagine more liek a vague grey lord figure, and only at night or with certain triggers have flashes of chaos instead. She would still have the psychological effects, though perhaps they would become less much quicker, although any confrontation over those might trigger a will save and some memories. In this case, she would not really recall the rift too well...just there was something at the door. The imagien of the rift and the shadowy lord chaos might combine in her mind to make her think something very bad was lurking at that entrance.

If Ameena picks the future memories, she won't immediately remember perfectly everything that happened, until when she was actually in the future. Her midn swill still try and cushion her, and have a form of fuzzy logic remembering well actions of the firts time around right up until around about this area of the dungeon. In this state, she will seem psychic, or like she has extreme deja vu. Remember when Haynuus knew the stone doors by the alcove were goign to come down before Falkor triggered the trap? Like that, only better. IF Ameena tries to push her senses, or if the memory is too strong, there is a small chance at a will save and some nasty incident. Similarly, if something happens this go around that strongly contradicts what she recalls will happen - such as if a character dies, say (since none did the firts go through).

Vice versa, her memories of the game actions will become faded. So she won't reclal the soldier incident well,if at all, nor meeting Helm, etc. And she won't remember some of the plot things liek the ghost. She might have vague memories of them if pushed, though her midn may want to brush them aside quickly. Note that in this way, you can 'start over' and reset Ameena's clock for wanting to stay with the party (she might have a lot more empathy for them, knowing they are good and so trying to councel them when they have to perform a bad action). And of course, it would be fun to have Ameena saying odd thigns that don't match up. However, in this state, you are basically playign a 'new' Ameena. Which you might not want to do. In this future accepting state, it is much more liekly Ameena will start to flash to her future confrontations and even recall the trip through the rift much better. Thoguh again, there is the posibility of her mind goign weird if she can't rationalise it like a vision, etc.

As I said, the third possibility is to try and bridge those two. So she'll still basically be the same Ameena as before, but still be able to have these future flashes and even try to push through to recall the rift trip. However, all these attempts could well damage her emotionally, and there might be some other dangers.

e) You have alot of player knowledge. Yikes! Obviously, your character will slowly remember all that stuff ,so that the plot does not just splat out all at once to the rest. AS a player, I am putting you on your honour not to mention certain things. If it feels weird, I don't mind detailign the basic plot stuff to the rest of ther players to set them up for the rest of the game, and let them have their characters find thigns out. However, it's possibly more fun to keep people in the dark so they learn stuff at the same time as their characters.


Funnily, of course you guys could have had this encounter with Chaos right at the start if you had decided to persevere with the iron grate (though I had subtly put blocks on thinking it was valid, and of course you players are good players whoare't goign to mess with the story for the sake of it) and I also had hoped perhaps someone might go with you this time around - like perhaps Falkor. That would have been an interesting and cool dynamic.


Anyway, sorry, so that's where you are. Oh, except one last thing:

f) You gain a level! Weeeeeeeee. You finally hit level five, thanks to everythign you did plus your brush with your future. You know how to level up by now, right?


Anyway, that's it, I'll go take a breather and then go update the story thread!

Okay, so, let me just go through each point and make sure I get it. This may take some time .
So Ameena's Con is restored and so she's on 13/17hp - 3 dam from the spider bite and 1 from the cold, right?
The pain in her right arm is a sort of phantom pain, then, in that there isn't anything physically causing it to hurt but she still feels it as a kind of aftereffect of being in the clutches of the most Big and Scary thing in the whole (game) world.
The shadow thing will be easy enough to RP - rats are prey to plenty of creatures, and so are murafu, just the predators tend to be a bit bigger (than those who hunt rats). So scary dark advancing forms will be a natural thing for a murafu to fear and while they'd normally have the sense to realise whether something's an obvious threat or not, Ameena will probably be a bit more likely to give in to instinct when she sees something that reminds her of the scary Chaos shadow. She will be wanting many cuddles, I think .
The dream thing will probably freak her out quite a lot - murafu do dream on occasion, though if I remember rightly they refer to it as "Sleep Visions" or something - I did have a murafu name for it but I can't remember exactly what it was. Anyway, though murafu dream, they don't have bad dreams. Ameena's never had a nightmare - sleep is a comfortable place where she goes in between doing other stuff, and sometimes weird but generally irrelevant stuff will happen there. If she's gonna start seeing scary red glowing eyes and stuff which actually causes fear during sleep (and as you said, wakes her up), she won't be doing too well mentally . I'm guessing she's gonna be pretty bloody knackered by now anyway - I dunno how long it's been since she last slept (right before meeting Drommal and co. for the first time), but surely it's been a few hours by now. Plus all this stress and stuff, she's gonna want to curl up somewhere, I think. And start having nightmares. And therefore need yet more cuddles .
For other effects besides the ones you've listed, I'll see what comes up - when I'm RPing I only tend to have a vague (or no) idea as to where my character is going (mentally, I mean). I suppose Ameena will be more skittish and nervous for a while. Close contact with nice people will help immensely if they can give her what she needs (yeah, you guessed it, mucho cuddles ). If no-one helps/offers to help she'll probably just start feeling sort of alone, outcast and alienated and end up getting worse, going back to the whole "lone murafu = Very Bad Thing" thing.
Now, the memory thing. Like you said - the tricky part . As a player, I want Ameena to get back with the others and get on with stopping Chaos from taking over the universe and all that, in which case Helm is a bit of a limitation since she'll want to stay with him. If she regains her past memories (ie the ones that have formed during the course of the game), she'll end up thinking of the Chaos encounter as a dream and want to stick with Helm and not go looking for the group because she knows of their, umm...violent tendencies. If she dumps those memories and sticks with the future ones, presumably she'll forget about Helm and so won't feel obliged to go back for him. So if she does encounter him again she'll be in a very awkward situation in that he'll probably be annoyed or whatever, because he's bound to remember that she said she'd look for him if they split, and of course if he tells her that, she won't remember (or maybe she'll have to make a Will Save to try, or something), and she'll just get upset about it either way - if she doesn't remember him, she'll just be confused because she doesn't know what he's talking about but will wonder wtf's going on with her head that this bloke seems to know who she is and all that, and if she does remember, then thwak - instant guilt from remembering what she told him and the fact that she didn't stick to it.
Maybe she'll emerge from the portal in the same place she entered, only it will have closed or something, and then Helm will be able to walk through it and out to safety, meanwhile Ameena's other memories will kick in, she'll say a vague goodbye to Helm because she's pretty sure she sort of knows him, he'll bugger off happy that he's finally got out, and then she'll be free to do what she wants because she won't have any thoughts for his safety lingering in the back of her mind - that would probably be the best option because then she's only holding on to her "past" thoughts for long enough to say goodbye to him. I think he'd be the most prominent thought in her mind, since she was with him and all that. Yeah...well, this is if she does emerge back in the room with him of course - she remembers him, but knows there are other memories she wants, they deal with Darke in some way or he (Darke) lets them go, Helm departs but Ameena feels that there's something she must do - her "future" memories of the group are more prominent because that's how she'd want to remember them, with all the good stuff that happened between them and the fact they went through so much together and all that, so as soon as Helm is gone, the "past" memories fade and she latches onto those ones, and sets off to find her friends. Where Darke, Brohur and the other guards fit into this in terms of what they'd be doing, I don't know, but if they weren't there then that's what I think I'd like to happen between Ameena and Helm .
Anyway, that's the biggest problem for me right now, as I see it - getting rid of Helm, but in a nice way that ends Ameena's (self-defined) obligations to him and gets him out of the way so she can decide to try and save the world (but not in those terms because murafu don't think of themselves as particularly important in that sense ), setting forth back into the dungeon to scare the crap out of the rest of the group by randomly showing up and asking them what they're doing wandering around with the scary mage who summons up nasty smelly creatures that fight by causing you to basically hurt yourself . She'll be able to manage alone as long as she has that destination in mind - meeting up with the party again. Incidentally, regarding meeting up with them again, Ameena will of course therefore have memories of the "first run" which will involve the party doing stuff which obviously their players haven't done. I'm not suggesting that we try to tell the players what their characters have done. But Ameena can remember some vague stuff - if they all became relatively uber, I figure I can have her remember, for example, that Falkor could cast stuff like Lightning Bolt and Harm Non-Material Being (and such-like), Westian made some pretty damn funky potions that could heal any injury and instantly eradicate any poison, while Haynuus found some really cool sword thing that was apparently made of this stuff called "dy-mond" and enjoyed waving it around a lot. That kind of thing. That is, on the assumption that more or less any DM (but not CSB?) loot is "up for grabs" in terms of Ameena remembering it (apart from stuff like the Firestaff, obviously), and she can make comments to the group and confuse the hell out of them by it, and then presumably confuse herself in a kind of "Oh no wait...that hasn't actually happened yet, has it?" kind of way.
Regarding my player knowledge - heh, come on, surely you don't need to ask me to keep quiet about stuff . I thought I've been pretty clear over the years how I like to see people figure stuff out for themselves. Don't worry - Ameena knows what Ameena knows, and I don't have to say much in the OOC thread, do I .
And the final point - levelling up. Nope, I can't remember what I get. Something like +1d6hp (or was it 1d8?), and umm...some skill points (something + Int mod), erm...increase to saves? And umm...no feat yet, I'm guessing? I seem to recall they're every four levels or so but I can't remember...and at some point I get another stat point but I think that happened last level...oh, and free Rogue abilities pop up every now and then too but I can't remember when or what I would get. Wow this post is long...maybe I'd better go to that DnD site we've all been using and see if there is an easy page there on levelling up for Rogues...

Yeah, Ameena could have mental flashes to any future that is possible but won't happen liek that, but the way I see it if Ameena chooses to go with her future memories for now, then her mind recall older stuffm, but not newer stuff that woulnd't have happened yet, except in echoes.

Still, the party is about to hit level 10 the easy way (a few teleports and skeleton stairs). You can imagine originally you guys went the hard way, through dungeon areas that were semi-ruined remnants of the DM dungeon, with half-taken apart puzzles, and monsters inhabitting the areas.

So you might not recall Haynuus as an uber fighter, but you coud certainly go 'wuick, use the vorpal blade!' to him if something enchanted happened, since you would likely have found at least one of the two perhaps undiscovered from way back

Levelling up: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm

You gain an extra 1d6 damage to your sneak attack, if you ever get to make one Sothat's 3d6 extra damage if you can get an opponent to lose their AC bonus (flanking or feinting or acting ahead of them or if they run at you)

You get 1d6 hit dice, with a minimum on the roll of 4 allowed

You get 8 skill points, plus skill points equal to your skill bonus. You can have a maximum of 8 ranks in a class skill.

You'll get a new feat next level, another ability point at level 8, and another feat level 9

Okay, so...just to check I'm doing the levelling up okay...

Rogue level +1, increased to 5 (duhhh).

+1d6hp (minimum 4) - rolled a 1 (d'oh ), so +4hp as that is the minimum allowed? Does her current hp stay where it is as 13 since she was injured and just her maximum go up for now until she gets healed?

Sneak Attack is now 3d6 dam.

Skills...9 more skill points (8+Int mod). I'm not sure what you meant by "plus skill points equal to your skill bonus", unless you meant my Int mod and used the wrong term or made a typo or something .
Skill points allocated - Acrobatics +1 (skill now has 8 points into it, plus bonuses), Diplomacy +3 (again, bringing this one up to 8 - I think she'll be needing it ), Thievery +2 (total 8 again), and Stealth, Perception, and Sense Motive all +1 (again, also bringing these ones up to . On making the changes, my Acrobatics now reads a total of 13 from "(8+4)", but it did previously say it was 12 from (7+4) so I think that extra point was a bonus that came from somewhere and it's not a mistake...

Regarding changes to saves and stuff, I'm not sure I understand the table in that link very well - the numbers seem to be listed weirdly...like, it says my "base attack bonus" is "+3"...does that mean I should give another three points to my melée and ranged attack thingys, or that they should be at +3? Becaue although my melée is, my ranged is +7. I got confused on the saves as well. I'm probably getting bonuses from all over the place but the way that table it laid out I don't really understand it. I'd prefer it to be laid in a "When you ding this level, you must alter your stats in this way..." kind of style.
Once I get this sorted I'll post it up on the character page to replace my current profile (or will I? Hmm, maybe I'll hold it back till Ameena reunites everyone - we don't want any meta-gaming going on, now do we? ).

Oh, and on a quick note with the memory thing regarding what you said in the post above...yeah, it was kind of what I was thinking. I mean, that she would sort of expect them to do weird stuff - Falkor throwing a fireball wouldn't freak her out so much, for example, and she might wonder why he used that instead of some other spell or seemed confused and annoyed that he didn't have the spell on hand - "But Falkor, why can't you just open the door by casting that funny blue light thing at it like you did before?" .
Right, I think that was everything I wanted to say for now...I'll probably think of something else as soon as I've clicked the "Submit" button, as so often happens, though .

Remember to take away your constitution modifier from the hit points you gain, so...umm...3hp in total, right? Still 20 hit points maximum, and you also get to add those 3 hit points to your current total for 13/20 hit points.

Hmm, I thinm something went astray with some of your bonuses. Your acrobatics bonus should be +8 for 8 ranks, +2 for 5 ranks in athletics (cross class skill) and +3 for your dexterity bonus. That would make +13 in total as stated (and +12 previously), just your bonuses were wrong.

Remember that most of the numbers you get in D&D aren't flat numbers, they are bonuses to the d20 rolls you make. Hence your acrobatics skill is at +13, etc. So all that table is telling you is what your base bonus is (before adding any other modifiers) because of your class.

Going from 4th to 5th level is weird, as none of your stats incase - you keep the same melee and ranged attack rolls, and you keep the same will, reflexes and fortitude saves.


Ranged rolls use you base attack bonus and dexterity bonus, while your melee rolls use your base attack bonus and your strength bonus. Because you are little, you get +1 to attack rolls. Hmm, so your melee bonus should be +4 not +3.

Don't you mean 16/20hp? She was on 13 already (former max of 17, -4 from damage). And I forgot/didn't know (I forget which) about the Con mod thing, see this is why I'm glad I checked with you . I've just altered my Acrobatics and Athletics slightly to show "+2" as well from the synergy thingy. And oooh, I just thought of something - I've got Weapon Finesse, so that means my melée bonus will go up, won't it, because now it uses my Dex mod instead of my Str mod, so should be showing as +7 the same as my Ranged, right, because my Str mod is 0 so I was getting no bonus from it.
Here, I'll post my altered (ie, level 5 updated) profile here and you can tell me if I messed anything up .
This is just the basic stuff - stats and skills and that. I haven't bothered to list stuff like feat descriptions because they haven't changed...

Name: Ameena
Class: Rogue (Level 5)
Race: Murafu
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Age: 12

Stats:
Strength: 10 (+0)
Dexterity: 17 (+3)
Intelligence: 12 (+1)
Wisdom: 13 (+1)
Constitution: 8 (-1)
Charisma: 9 (-1)

Hit points = 16/20
Armour class = 15 (11)
Speed = 20 feet (4 squares), 40 feet (8 squares) if prone and unarmed

Melee bonus: +7
Range bonus: +7

Fortitude: -1, +1 against disease
Reflexes: +7
Will: +3

Skills:
Appraise (Int): (3+1), 4
Acrobatics (Dex): (8+3+2), 13, 16 to balance, +3AC fighting defensively, +6AC total defence
Athletics (Str): (5+0+2), 7, 14 to climb and swim, 17 to avoid swim hazard. Take 10 on climb and swim anytime.
Bluff (Cha): (2-1), 1
Diplomacy (Cha): (8-1), 7
Thievery (Dex): (8+3), 11, 7 only for assessing traps
Escape Artist (Dex): (5+3), 8
Stealth (Dex): (8+3+2), 13, 17 when hiding
Intimidate (Cha): (1-1), 0
Knowledge (Local) (Int): (3+1), 4
Perception (Wis): (8+1), 9
Sense Motive (Wis): (8+1), 9, 13 against small, non-humanoid mammals
Sleight of Hand (Dex): (5+3), 8, +10 for concealing daggers
Speak Language (Murafu): (4)
Speak language (Common): (4)
Speak language (Halfling): (1)

Weapon finesse only applies to certain weapons, so better to leave the melee part as it was, and just put 'ranged/finesse weapons: +7' below it.

And yeah, I meant 16/20, Anyway, all seems fine!


Here's the map currently - Ameena started bottom right (as seemed appropriate) and ran to top left. Note that although I;ve shown the whole corridor, Ameena's light currently only shows up to the lock clearly on the first door, and then dimly shows just passed the text on the wall.



Each square is ten foot, so Ameena might be a little bigger (along with some of the other symbols) than she should be.

Wep Finesse description says "Finesse – Melée attacks use Dexterity bonus instead of Strength.", implying any melée will do. I suppose that only means Rogue weps but since Ameena's dinky and probably won't use more than a dagger anyway (if she does actually properly start fighting at any point), or even a short sword, those are both Rogue weps anyway so it won't matter .
And cool, a map - I'd been wondering what the area looked like . I'm guessing more detailed descriptions of they keyholes and stuff will come when Ameena gets round to looking at them, which may take a while depending on how long it takes her to wind down (from panicking). She's probably knackered as well .
Oh, what colour is the light? Is it a yellow glow like a torch, or a cold white light, or a more "natural-feeling" light as though it's coming from the outside (ie daylight)? Or some weird colour, like blue? Hey, that thing you said in the OOC thread about Ameena definitely not being Seeroc/Brighteyes...he glows, doesn't he? Eek, lol...
Speaking of Seeroc, hehehehe, it's kind of fun messing with their heads in the OOC thread by posting silly suggestions as to what Seeroc might possibly be. I wonder if I'd have twigged that he was Brighteyes. Probably not. I'd've probably gone on thinking that Brighteyes was some freakish weirdo who wasn't very nice but who for some reason was allowed to work there. Heh, plenty of clues that he's not quite who he seems and yet I still don't think I'd've got it .

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse
It's a light weapon - a dagger, hand, or certain other weapons. A sword is a nromal sized weapon I'm afraid!

The light is a whitish glow, though as it fades it will go bluer the blacker then disappear


And funny though it is to mess with their heads, don't do it too much. Something you say as a joke might actually make them think somethign they wouldn't, or they might otherwise spot you know more at the time.

And awww, your perfect record of spotting odd thigns broken To be fair, no reason anyone should suspect at first since he's just a little guy. And the name of Brighteyes and the fact he's a sociopathic gnome comes from a podcast I listened to, so that might actually divert Ian's thinking.

Since it won't affect the plot, I'll tell you that money as Falkor has alreayd been putting messages across to Brighteyes, pretending ot betray the group and suggesting Brighteyes 'lead them away fro mthe room for Seeroc'. So Seeroc knows Falkor is the halfling mage he sought, although of course will think Falkor is evil.

So money perhaps thinks he's spotted the trick to Brighteyes's behaviour ... though it means he is watchign the gnome, so is already spotting some of the odder behaviour in the gnome and perhaps the surroundings.

No one else bothered to check exactly why the soldiers were nervous yet, so we shall see....

Oh, and Westian caught Falkor 'talking' to Brighteyes at the golem hall door, but has rightfully decided to trust the halfling.


Anyway, all fun and games, can't wait for next week

Oh, I thought short swords were light weps, and anything larger was medium or large. Incidentally, following from that link, natural weapons are always considered to be light weapons so Wep Finesse counts on Bite attacks .
As for the jokes thing, heh that's probably the kind of thing I would have said anyway - how many times have I spammed out weird random theories and sometimes been strangely almost right when I didn't know how things really were?
It will be interesting to see exactly what it is that Seeroc wants Falkor (and Haynuus? I seem to recall Drommal and the others wanted him too when they first met) for. Probably not anything very pleasant or comfortable (at least, for Falkor ).
As for the soldiers being nervous, well, maybe everyone's just sort of assuming it's because this hodgepodge group of visibly-armed people, led by a gnome (albeit a gnome they're familiar with) has just tromphed down the stairs and started helping themselves to the stuff in their (the soldiers') supply room .

Meanwhile, is the crack only scary if she's looking at it, or can she stand near it without fear as long as she keeps it out of her line of sight (not difficult since she's not standing upright )? And which square(s) of the map is/are the crack over?

As I said before, if she isn't activly looking at the area where the crack is, and if it isn't in darkness, she'll start seeing it or seeing it in her mind and be driven around the corner. Not 'what if she closes her eyes', nor 'what if she doens't look at it and backs up towards it', not 'well what if she's looking down'.

It's like being terrified of the creepy doll in your room. If you have the blanket over your head, even though you can't see it you think you are safe. Having light to see but it being in shadow is your 'blanket'. Otherwise, if yAmeena can see it, or is in a position to be close to it, the crack scares the crap out of Ameena and she'll have to run roudn the corner from it.

The crack is over the door. Ameena can probably stand the other side of the wall text, and read the wall text, and be fine. Anything else will be bad!

Pain Rats - wow, after fighting for the rights of the Oitus whom she couldn't talk to and were probably just mindless eating creatures and fighting to communicate, the pain rats Ameena should be able to communicate with very well are simply assumed non-sentient? Is this a character thing for Ameena or just a guess by you as a player? Of course I'll let Ameena play with other fuzzles!

Anyway, for this sort of knowledge douible check with me what Ameena would remember. Obviously, it's a case of story Ameena can make it up as long as she';s not stepping o nthe toes of the others' characters, but for surroundings you don't know and I'm not about to spoil the entire dungeon for you as a player just on the offchance Ameena needs to know something. Otherwise, I'd have to do that with the whole gameworld to all players before they start to detail the entire life and history of the world and their characters!

As I also said before, Ameena recalls stuff sorta as it happens, aso the memories are a little foggy until she concentrates. Nothing too much wrong with what you've said, just watch for putting words in my characters mouths!

Actually, most of the post is fine as I said on the IC, just need to tweak why Ameena thinks Pain Rats are non sentient, and also keep playign the crack hatred as is!

With the rats, it was about the only justification I could come up with for the fact that the group's probably fought and killed (and eaten) Giant Rats, yet Ameena's still willing to look for them and has good thoughts about them. If the Giant Rats had been more like normal rats (or even murafu) in personality, there's no way she'd have stood for it. I suppose the group may not necessarily have actually ended up fighting the giant fuzzles, but some creatures are still creations of Chaos from the "old" (ie DM) dungeon, aren't they, I seem to recall. And I don't think any of those were very friendly . Plus the rest of the group (at least, Haynuus and Westian) are at this very moment, over in the other thread, in the process of nomming said Giant Rats. If the rats had been friendly/intelligent/communicative the first time around, Ameena would be shocked to discover that the group isnow eating them! I thought I'd come up with a way to avoid an extra mental trauma for now . You didn't indicate whether the rat-scent would make her feel nervous or hopeful or any other kind of emotion, so I made it up myself since smelling something usually gives you at least a hint of whatever emotional state you associate with it, even if you can't remember exactly where you know the smell from.
Regarding the Scary Scary Crack, I presume you mean it's above the bottom door of the two on the map. Anyway...this is the first thread I've checked so now I'll move over to the IC one and see what you've put there...