Dungeon Master Forum

Big swords and lots of ku potions make those kind of fights a lot less tedious.

I'm still amazed that these sorts of discussions go on, 25 years after the game came out. Talk about hardcore dedication

yeah, and very good game design too.

Big swords and lots of ku potions make those kind of fights a lot less tedious

Although that's true, the Ku potions are something you either have to find and save up for those battles, or sacrifice a precious flask to make one.

Lol, the 'sacrifice a flask' makes me thinkof one of the party creating a ZO VEN, smashing the flask on the floor, and praying to some dark god of Ku potionry!

You don't really need to sacrifice the flask (not even in the vivid and elaborate manner described by beo). You get it back when you are finished!

You only sacrifice them when making ven bombs. Or ful bombs...(I am pretty sure I made ful bombs before, but I just cannot remember the runes ).

I presume US is thinking in terms of a precious potion slot that copuld be a Vi or KU on standby, but it was still a fun turn of phrase I tended to always have one empty or with a VI/YA on hand for VI/YA emergencies. Liternally on hand, a floating single flask going between the left hands of the champions!

beowuuf wrote:Lol, the 'sacrifice a flask' makes me thinkof one of the party creating a ZO VEN, smashing the flask on the floor, and praying to some dark god of Ku potionry!

So actually decided to break out the verbosity and go 2 lines, eh?

You don't really need to sacrifice the flask (not even in the vivid and elaborate manner described by beo). You get it back when you are finished!

You only sacrifice them when making ven bombs. Or ful bombs...(I am pretty sure I made ful bombs before, but I just cannot remember the runes ).

When I said "sacrifice" I was referring to the fact that when you fill a flask with a Ven potion or Ful bomb you lose the flask forever. Once you throw it it explodes and is destroyed. Plus, in DM you only have a finite amount of flasks available so I tend to avoid creating ful bombs and ven potions. In DM2 I don't have that constraint, if I run out of flasks, I just go to a shop that sells them and buy more. If I'm short on coin, I go somewhere where there are re-spawning monsters that drop something I can sell for coins and then buy more flasks, so making ven potions and ful bombs is not a problem.

I presume US is thinking in terms of a precious potion slot that copuld be a Vi or KU on standby, but it was still a fun turn of phrase I tended to always have one empty or with a VI/YA on hand for VI/YA emergencies. Liternally on hand, a floating single flask going between the left hands of the champions!

It's the finite supply of flasks that I am thinking about, and how important they are for certain potions, like Vi potions, Ya potions, ViBro potions, and I've even use the Ee(mana) potions as well from time to time as it can be handy to have that extra bottled mana around in case I need it.

I never rated Mana potions unless I was training a high level priest and a starting magic user simultaneously. I don't think you get anything like the mana back to cast a different equivalent potion, so you're really trading on power for flexibility.

I'd always prefer a VI/YA or KU there just to hang on longer for the mana to naturally regenerate. I used to have a spare couple of shield potions too with DM, but the shield spell itself is so cheap and the effect only really beneficial for standing toe to toe with heavy hitters like golems.

Seriously Unserious wrote: When I said "sacrifice" I was referring to the fact that when you fill a flask with a Ven potion or Ful bomb you lose the flask forever. Once you throw it it explodes and is destroyed.

I think we have some wires crossed (I blame beo and/or bats). I meant using Ku (strength) potions to beef up the fighters before these kind of big melee battles. I never use ven or ful. I keep the ones I find in my inventory "just in case" and never make my own. Flasks are too valuable.

I just use two flasks for the whole game - each of my two heroes keeps on in their left hands so they can cast potions at need, and I don't cast them until I need them. And then I only cast Vi and (at least early on in the game) Ya potions, as far as I can remember.

I keep the rest filled wiht mostly VI potions to stand toe to toe with enemies if you encounter them in less than idea circumstances - those sneaky monsters can sometimes corner you, or a spellcaster needs to be blocked by a melee critter and you don't want to be flanked

My standard potion strategy is to keep 1 or 2 Vi potions for each party member and 1 ViBro potion per party member, that way I have a quick way to heal anyone who get's badly hurt, and quickly cure poison, while still being able to have an attack spell like fireballs or harm non-materials ready to cast. Whenever I need to use a potion, I replace it at the earliest opportunity, but keep the spares in case I'm too busy casting fireballs or swinging swords to stop and replace a potion, which is mostly when I'm cornered by a horde of monsters and having to fight my way out. When I use the mana potions, It's usually if I have a few extra empty = flasks around and am in a safe rest spot, then I'll fill them with mana potions, prepare my regular spells (usually fireballs), sleep until everyone's fully recovered, and use the mana potions if someone is running out of mana and needs to cast a spell and replace them the next time my party stops for a rest break.

I just use two flasks for the whole game - each of my two heroes keeps on in their left hands so they can cast potions at need, and I don't cast them until I need them. And then I only cast Vi and (at least early on in the game) Ya potions, as far as I can remember.

The main reason I don't do that is that usually when I need a Vi potion is when my party is in the middle of a huge battle with tough monsters and I need it in a hurry. Waiting to cast the potion my be too late for whoever needs it. I've had more then one character die because I didn't have a Vi potion ready ahead of time, and by the time I cast it, the guy who needed it is already dead, and is now in need of an alter of Vi, rather then a flask of Vi.

i only use one flask and only have my primary spell caster hang onto it. i find it faster to cast the spell and grab the flask from the same hand each time than to search through inventories for the right potion. i used to divy out potions to everyone, but in the end i found it nothing more than dead weight as i just used my handy flask anyway. the only time i stack up on potions is if im trying to get a super high ability score or am preparing for a fire enriched fight. health and antivenom potions cost so little mana to make anyways.

i have no problem sacking flasks for bombs, especially in DM, so damn many of em. last run through i think i had 3 chests and half an inventory full of flasks and still couldnt burn through all the bombs i found. i try to keep a steady consumption of items by sticking around in a fight even if im running low on mana.

All my potions are in standard slots, the three nearest their mouth for quickest healing, anti-poison in ther first pouch, etc. Makes it brainless to react to damage

beowuuf wrote:All my potions are in standard slots, the three nearest their mouth for quickest healing, anti-poison in ther first pouch, etc. Makes it brainless to react to damage

So do I.

beowuuf wrote:All my potions are in standard slots, the three nearest their mouth for quickest healing, anti-poison in ther first pouch, etc. Makes it brainless to react to damage

That's also what I do.

b1llygo4t wrote:i only use one flask and only have my primary spell caster hang onto it. i find it faster to cast the spell and grab the flask from the same hand each time than to search through inventories for the right potion. i used to divy out potions to everyone, but in the end i found it nothing more than dead weight as i just used my handy flask anyway. the only time i stack up on potions is if im trying to get a super high ability score or am preparing for a fire enriched fight. health and antivenom potions cost so little mana to make anyways.

I find it's usually no the amount of mana it takes to make these potions but the time it takes to make one, then get a champion to drink it, especially if my party's getting pummeled by fireballs or a stone giant or something. I have also run into situations where everyone's run out of mana and can't cast any spells so I like to keep a few extras in case of an emergency, which I have needed them on occasion too. Especially in those areas where the party gets pummeled by tough monsters that re-spawn so you can't just retreat, you have to fight your way through them to get past the spawn point.

and the ku potions really depend on the engine version and how long they last for. In the Amiga engine, for example, ku potions weren't that effective since they'd wear off too fast and you'd be right back where you started. Of course, the big swords and even bigger axes don't wear off, so If I had to choose between big swords and even bigger axes or lots of ku potions, I'd go for the big swords and even bigger axes any day.