Lets Play Dungeon Master

[Ameena]

When I play now, I use a duo of reincarnated Hissssa and Wuuf. When I played with four (after rediscovering DM via RTC some years back but before some forum posts on here meant that I became familiar with and attempted to try out the concept of playign with less than four people), I used Hissssa, Gothmog, Wuuf, and Gando. Because they had stats that seemed okay and weren't very human-looking (okay Gando was a bit of a push but I didn't want Daroou as he has no mana and I'm too lazy to get mana for the non-mana people through the use of wands and stuff ), and stuff . Back when I used to play DM originally, on the Atari back when I was about six or so, I can remember using Hawk and Hissssa quite a lot, and I definitely had Azizi one time, in my second slot, because she got killed right before the end so was dead when I actually completed the game. I can't remember much else about whoever I used to take, though.
Really, I go by how cool I think their portrait looks and whether they have enough starting mana to cast at least Lo Ful (Hissssa does if you want for the point to regen after casting Lo) - because DM is basically "easy mode" as far as dungeons are concerned, while some characters (such as Tiggy, with the lowest starting health of them all) can be tough to get started, in the end they can all become masters of everything and there are places where you can practice in order to do that, places where certain not-too-hard-to-kill monsters respawn soy ou can kill them over and over again and get all your levels up .

[oh_brother]

It depends on what you want. I also used go the portraits I liked, but for stats I think there is a fondness for Wuuf as a spellcaster, and Stamm and/or Halk for a fighter.

[Chaos-Shaman]

(okay Gando was a bit of a push but I didn't want Daroou as he has no mana and I'm too lazy to get mana for the non-mana people through the use of wands and stuff ),

when i first played dungeon master it was the spellcasters i preferred because i was chicken to face them, but as time went on i learned to maneuver better, so it saved time to attack with a big axe and use magic only if needed. magic took preference at first, then the axe took top spot for me.

[Ameena]

With DM (like several other RPGs), I find that I use physical stuff early on but tend to make greater use of magic in the later game, when enemies are tougher, often use magic themselves, and generally aren't the kind of thing you want to go toe-to-toe with. Unless I can do the two-step dance, in which case I'm meléeing .
Plus, it's not just in combat - it's making healing potions after combat as well . And light spells - I never use physical torches in DM and I'll stand at the bottom of the stairs on Level Two until I've got the light level as bright as it'll go (or one step below that, as that's close enough ).

[Chaos-Shaman]

well, we could make spells that can enhance the power of a weapon like a torch for a short period of time to make a torch burn the victim, or make a weapon that heals every once in a while. there are so many possibilities. the brave who confront enemies and don't run should be compensated.

[Wizard Zedd]

Seeing how I am still not very good at the "two step dance" I tend to run - fast! I am hoping bravery will kick in soon though

[Chaos-Shaman]

strafe, spin head, attack, strafe, spin head, attack. you have a second or 2 before the attack takes place leaving plenty of time to strafe left or right. good luck Zed

[Phoenix]

I just finished a solo run with a reincarnated Tiggy. In some ways it was hard and others it was easy. Her vitality and anti-fire stats are her biggest limitation. Near the end with her at UM Master in all classes (675HP), she can still die in one fireball hit from a demon or a black flame (even wearing flamebain). I always had tons of food. So much so that I never needed to eat anything but worm rounds, screamer slices, and the occasional drumstick from a pain rat. I did a lot of "dooring", where you pick a fight with a monster, lure them into a open door and close it on them.
You have to stand still, but the creatures will typically retreat behind the door after at few hits. This was the first time I ever took a single champion in DM, so it was interesting.

[Chaos-Shaman]

ahh, so you toughed it out with one character, a weak one at that. did you use weapons at all? using weapons brings up the toughness in characters. what I'd like to know is if a weak and a strong character using the same weapon and same amount of swings if the characters would grow in same strength or not. I figure tiggy being so small would not ever be able to swing a weapon as well as a tough character can. I'd like to find that out.

[Ameena]

I expect any character can become as good as any other at everything - that's surely the point of practicing their skills, after all. I suppose their stats may vary slightly but by the time you get to a really high level in everything I don't expect it matters that much, since the difference will only be a few points.

[Phoenix]

Oh, yes, I used weapons a great deal more than magic. I was an Expert fighter before I reached the Tomb of the Firestaff. It took a little longer, but I pushed her stats to the maximum. At UM Master in all classes, Tiggy will have roughly these stats:

Str: 62 Dex: 80 Wis:80 Vit:60 AM: 89 AF: 62
HP: 675 Stam: 425 Mana: 249

Health, Stamina and Anti-Magic are the only stats that will differ from play to play if you push regardless of which Champion you use.

[Chaos-Shaman]

i have given this great thought in how to measure and balance the stats all out and what i have come up with is very interesting in solving this.

i intend to put a time line of life on characters, they'll only live a regular life unless they find the elixir or magic fountain of life. it will either cost a great sum of coinage or a party may need to solve a puzzle to keep them alive. individual characters will have their own quests, if they die the party will have to find a new character. characters can come and go from the party at any time, the dead can also be brought back to life if the correct actions are taken place. the party will have to earn life points to keep a character. i'll need to figure what races live longer than others. light weapons will work better for the weaker characters, and heavy weapons will work better for the stronger ones. i am using RTC as the engine. i think this balance can be found with the characters. in comparison to the original, this will be quite different.

[Wizard Zedd]

Only one character...wow, I can't imagine that. I would need to play a number of times before I attempt that one I didn't know that you could "find a new character" is this in the original one or is this in a newer one?

[Chaos-Shaman]

Only one character...wow, I can't imagine that. I would need to play a number of times before I attempt that one I didn't know that you could "find a new character" is this in the original one or is this in a newer one?

I am using RTCeditor, it is not in the original.

[Ameena]

I did a solo run once (with a reincarnated Wuuf...but I always reincarnate when playing DM) and completed DM, but then got stuck in CSB when I wasn't strong enough to kill everything in order to get out of an area and had to keep retreating in order to heal up...which meant I had to re-step on the "spawn more monsters" trigger when I went to have another go, and ended up trapped in a loop of killing the same things over and over again, basically. Two characters is my preferred setup these days - you have a full front row in order to hit stuff, two inventories in which to keep stuff, half the number of people to practice all the skills, the ability to turn in order to dodge stuff that gets lobbed at you, only two mouths to feed, and so on.

[Chaos-Shaman]

that is logical Ameena. I have never played with less than 4, usually if a character dies too easy, I leave them dead until later or I replay the game with a better character.
what is happening with this new dungeon will change all of that, the party will be adjustable, the player will need to change who is in the party in order to complete quests, so the party will have one or two main champions to keep alive and young, while the other two will change around to suite the quest challenges. endless possibilities can be achieved. if the player likes, they can remove all the party members and select new ones, of course one must always be in the party to do the clicking. I am not sure when adding the champion back into the party whether they keep all the stats they have, I think I read they do, just not sure about that. I don't know who I can ask that question.... i'll keep screwing with it. it's been a struggle to figure some things out.

[Nymeriaa]

Alright - not sure which thread is the best for this, but this one seems like it might work!

I really wanted to start playing this game again, but felt like every time I was at my computer I wanted to do other things/play other games, so I decided to get the app on my iPhone since I have lots of down time at my job atm. Has anyone used this application before, are there limitations at all? Considering I pretty much don't remember anything from the original I can't tell if it is as good or not.

That being said, I'm actually finding this game really hard lol! HUGE learning curve from my modern games - I actually like that about it. I've come here a couple times now to find help, and I'm just not sure if playing on my phone platform is making it more difficult, I would love to get some input from the veterans

p.s. thanks for tips on finding keys and picking characters! I picked Boris, Wuuf, Chani, and Hissssa.

[oh_brother]

Hey Nymeriaa! I never used the iPhone version. I remember people feeling a bit annoyed about someone charging money for it though, since the author of that app does not own the copyright (if it is the version I am thinking of...my memory is fuzzy).

So I can't say how much more difficult it is. I would guess it is tougher though - on the PC I use one hand for the direction keys and another for the mouse, so I can move faster and move independently of the cursor (move while attacking, casting spells, etc.). Also, I imagine that your problem finding keys is increased on a smaller screen. One the PC I don't have much trouble, but obviously grey colored keys are tougher to spot than gold ones. And as for the best champions, to start I would pick two strong fighters (Hisssa is not a bad choice) and two strong spell casters (Boris, Wuuf and Chani all good, though I never really use them). Maybe put Chani up front with Hisssa. Also, a thread here discusses people favourite champions - no consensus, but some recurring names.

As for the forum to post, I would say this one is the best when you have questions/problems/tips/etc.. I am sure Wizard Zedd won't mind you hijacking his topic.

[Nymeriaa]

Yes, I just read up a little bit on the forum about the iPad app that was discussed last year.. it would seem there is definitely some bad air surrounding it, and now I feel bad for getting it! So far the small screen has been the hardest challenge, perhaps if I had an iPad it would be easier... also it would appear that I can only have one save at a time, which is different from the many available I've seen on my PC version (and definitely makes the playing strategy different I'm sure). Also, I made a couple of blunders at the beginning because I was such a noob (e.g. resurrected instead of reincarnated) and I would like to start a new game, but there doesn't seem to be an option for that aside from reinstalling the game maybe?

Overall, from my experience the PC version is superior, but I may continue to dink around on this one for practice .. Plus it seems like you guys are doing some interesting things with the game, and I imagine I wouldn't be able to get those versions on my phone!

Ah another noob like me! I hope you are all prepared to re-live your first DM experience through our, or at least MY, annoying questions lol you guys are awesome and thanks so much for all the help!

[Phoenix]

Nymeriaa:

Weclome to the forums. I don't have an Iphone/Ipad, so I can't help you there...

Wizard Zedd:

I've been playing DM/CSB since they came out on the Atari ST. Somewhere in one of my storage boxes is a set of graph paper maps of the DM dungeon. I used the Window spell on just about every wall trying to find everything. Still, this was the first time that I only took a single champion. Taking one champion is hard in some ways and easy in others. It's hard in terms of carrying capacity and fighting multiple creatures, but you go up levels more quickly, and there's more food available. A single champion also means that many attacks will miss you completely.

Chaos-Shaman:

As far as stats go, it seems to me that vitality and stamina have the biggest influence. It's dreadful to be without a flask for Mon potions when your stamina is low or you've run out of food. I don't know if there is a fighter or ninja action that doesn't have a stamina drain associated with it. Also, as your stamina goes, so goes your carrying capacity. Vitality controls how fast you get yout stamina back and recover from poison.

In starting to play a solo Tiggy, it almost remined me of Conflux as the first creature I ran across killed me in one shot. She has the lowest starting stamina and health of any DM champion, so I needed to cast Mon potions often in many battles. I typically stay away from champions that have stats in the 30's, but this was a unique challenge.

While I won't claim to have a complete understanding of all the game mechanics, the maximum potential stat gains for a reincarnated champion are 45 for strength, dexterity, and wisdom, 36 for vitality, and 32 for anti-fire at Archmaster. Anti-magic is a bit of a wildcard, as it's potential is 90, but in my experience, it's typical to get 1 point/level and not the 3 points/level that is possible for priests and wizards. There is an issue with stats that are too high causing engine issues, but that's better addressed by the experts.

Not many players are going to go that far to have full stats, the Archmaster challenge excluded of course.

[Ameena]

Don't worry Nym, you're not the first newcomer to the game we've had on the forum - ask whatever you like and I'm sure at least one of us will be able to help you .
Phoenix - When you say "Mon" potions, do you in fact mean "Ya" (Stamina) potions? Mon is the last of the six Power Runes, always the first rune of a spell and which determines its strength/duration and mana cost . Wisdom is said to be a very useful stat, as it's the one that detremines your mana total and mana regen speed. I've read tales on here in the past of people drinking Wisdom potions over and over again so their Wisdom is topped out (at 255) and their mana regens so fast they can just keep doing it. Personally I don't think I've ever looked at the stat numbers except for possibly the main three (Health, Stamina, Mana), and of those mainly Mana, to see if I can cast any kind of spell from the start in order to gain levels and increase it further. That's one reason why I take Hissssa - apart from the portrait, he (though I reincarnate him as a she ) can cast Lo, then if you wait for the one point of mana to regen from that, you can cast Ful as well and practice on that. Or Lo Ya would work too, if you have a flask (my other char is reincarnated Wuuf so I could do this), as that is the cheapest spell in the game. But light is more relevant to me than stamina at that point in the game, being as I'm entering Level Two with no physical torches (I refuse to use them so that all my light has to come from magic, therefore more practice for my characters) .

[Phoenix]

My bad, MON potions are YA potions in Conflux. While what you say about wisdom is true, wisdom doesn't have the broad spectrum effect that stamina has. Outside of potions, even mana and health recovery drains stamina. The issue with high stats was, I think, centered about anti-fire. If your anti-fire was too high and you cast fireshield your net fire resistance could become negative, and you would take more damage, not less.

You also don't need a flask to gain priest levels until you reach Craftsman, if I recall correctly. In the beginning, when you cast Lo Ya, it will do either of two things: fail or say you need a flask in hand. If it says you need a flask, just cast it again until it fails. The spell fails, but you still get experience for the action. If you repeat this over and over again, you will get to the point where it won't ever fail, and you will only get the need for a flask response. At this point, you simply cancel the spell and increase the power rune by one, in this case Um Ya. When you cast the spell at this new power level you will immediatly level up in priest. You can continue this process up to Mon Ya were you will then need a flask.

[Ameena]

I forgot, actually - you can also use War Cry to gain Priest levels (shows how often I do that, lol).
That particular method of increasing Priest levels by casting sells without a flask sounds rather time-consuming and more mana expensiive than it should be...I'm not sure how much more expensive Um Ya is than Lo Ya but it will be more expensive, so you'll need mor mana in the first place to be able to get the runes out...and the reason for trying to cast Lo Ya in the first place is because you have very little mana . Anyway, flasks are easy enough to come by as long as you go into that little dead-end alcove in the big room of Mummies on Level Two (or take Wuuf as a party member), so you won't have to wait long to be able to start trying to cast potions .
I'm not one to sit there grinding at training my characters - I'll do it for the Ful spell at first but only because I don't want to be wandering around in the dark - once the light level is about as bright as it gets, I stop casting. Also as my playstyle results in pretty much no Ninja practice at all, when I get most of the way down the dungeon I'll have eveyrone repeatedly throw something heavy (boulder or chest, usually) over and over again until it no longer lands at their feet, then switch to the next person and repeat. This gets them up tp Craftsman level, I believe...and the reason I only practice that long is because I'm lazy and can't be arsed to take that one step to pick up the item an then turn around and throw it again .

[Wizard Zedd]

Nymeriaa...This is my first time playing DM and I am playing the PC version and not on Iphone, so can't help you there. I can't imagine trying to play on such a small screen and not having left hand on movement controls and mouse for spell casting etc., seems like it would be really difficult.

I started this thread so I could ask questions and get help as I play the game. Please feel free to ask your questions here as well - I'm sure I will learn from the answers you get, and you from mine

[Chaos-Shaman]

just to keep things straight humble WZ, the thread was started by beardedmike, but I am sure he doesn't mind. we await his return in the meantime... there is much to learn about DM. do practice both left and right hand, for me I use left hand keyboard, right for mouse.

[Wizard Zedd]

Ooops....my appologies - I thought I was responding in the thread I started "Help Wanted"

The offer still stands for anyone to post questions in the Help Wanted thread....that's what it's for

[Beardedmike]

just to keep things straight humble WZ, the thread was started by beardedmike, but I am sure he doesn't mind. we await his return in the meantime... there is much to learn about DM. do practice both left and right hand, for me I use left hand keyboard, right for mouse.

your right I don't mind

Sorry its taking so long for the next DM video

[Nymeriaa]

For the record I have up on my iPhone Dungeon Master app!

I could only make one save at a time, the screen was too small, and the tree monsters I killed didn't even drop any food! These are some major flaws in the game that I just couldn't deal with. I'm now on the PC using left hand on keyboard in the WASD position (z & c as strafe.. I know I'm weird!) and right hand on mouse... I was just thinking how cool it would be to create extra bindings for the mouse (I have 6 buttons for example) to cast spells or attack. Does anyone know if this can be done? Thanks

[Chaos-Shaman]

yes, the number pad can do that Nym, have a look in the config.txt and you'll see the key strokes used. you can design it any way you like, using RTC, not sure of the other engines, maybe someone can tell us about that.

[Ameena]

Nym isn't asking about using hte numpad - she is referring to the possibility of mapping keys to a more-than-three-buttoned mouse. I don't know if any of the DM cloens were designed to work with one, since the game they're cloning was only designed for two mouse buttons and a keyboard - it may not be possible to map commands to extra mouse buttons. But I'm just guessing there - I don't actually know.