Dungeon Master Forum

I've never liked DM2. Honestly, I've never even finished it. Although some cool ideas were added I didn't like the graphics and the whole thing seemed annoying and strange to me. It was a huge disappointment after the illustrious DM and incredible CSB.

lord soth 75 wrote:Iv decided to have a crack at CSB.

*rubs his hands*

Ameena wrote:And you've got the rest of us here to give hints and stuff

You mean "you've got the rest of us here to look important and smart and educated and to increase the forum's traffic and personal number-of-posts-counter"?

But, of course, CSB is horribly difficult. Without a guide or maps or anything it should take you not tens but virtually hundreds of hours to finish it for the first time. There's a very cool "Hint Oracle" but even with it it's still very hard. I doubt that people nowadays have the time to finish it without any external hints. Certainly I wouldn't have the time now. I did finish the game without any external help but it took me more than a year (really hundreds of hours) and it was in the pre-Internet era so I didn't have any other choices and the time seemed to have a different value back then.

The Config file is a text file found in the RTC folder - you can change some preferences here too, mainly minor graphical things like how the light fades and the cursor colour and stuff. You can also change the keymapping, if you want, and I think you can also alter the difficulty level.
To edit the DM dungeon, I think you can just load the text file into the editor and mess around with it from there - but make sure you save it under a different name, of course, so that you don't mess up the actual DM file .
Good luck with CSB, though - I'm sure you'll find it...interesting .
Someone I know is gonna start playing DM soon (maybe in a few weeks), for the first time (he found out about the game from me). He said he'd join the forum when he does so he can post up updates of his progress and stuff. Meanwhile I'll be watching him via Skype's screen-share thingy and probably laughing as he dies a lot and gets lost and stuff .

It's cool and amazing that new people are still finding and enjoying DM, twenty five years old this year!

Yeah, I know - it's such an old game now but still people enjoy it . I would say "They don't make 'em like that any more", but what with Grimrock coming out next month I'd probably be a bit wrong in doing so .

lord soth 75 wrote:original version of DM on RTC.

RTC is not the 'original' and is, in fact,
different from the original in several ways.

Make sure you consider carefully what editor
and engine you choose to use.

There are:
RTC
CSBwin
DMJava
DSB

I recuse myself from making judgments
because I am known to be biased. But
each of these four systems has strengths
and weaknesses. Perhaps other folks can
take a moment to express their preferences.

Some thoughts on those options:

DSB is probably the most flexible if you want to build anything in your imagination, with updated sounds and graphics, and it plays very much like the original DM in terms of "feel". Can be hard to get into if you don't have any programming experience though.

RTC is flexible, can be used to build cool custom games with new sound & graphics, and is easier to get into due it's more visual editing interface. It's more limited in extensibility for things like animation and you can't create proper new spell types. It does not play exactly the same as DM, and feels "a little bit off."

CSBWin is a true old school experience, with scope for new sounds and graphics, and radically altered gameplay using the DSA language. Looks very dated, but is the "purest" DM experience

DM Java: Well, this one just looked and felt so strange, I never worked out it's strengths!

Ameena wrote:Meanwhile I'll be watching him via Skype's screen-share thingy and probably laughing as he dies a lot and gets lost and stuff .

Wow, that sounds very good!

Paul Stevens wrote:
RTC is not the 'original' and is, in fact,
different from the original in several ways.

Im aware of that now.I wasn't aware when i installed it to my laptop.
I became aware that something wasn't quite right when playing through Level 6,and Beholders were killing my entire party with 1 lightning bolt.

I refer to it as 'Original' version,because that's what its called when i boot RTC up.
There is
*Dungeon Master-return to chaos
*Dungeon Master-original
*Chaos strikes back
*Dungeon master 2

In the 'return to chaos' version of DM rusters actually rust your weapons, and there is a spellbook so you need to find the runes first before you can cast the spells.


I'm afraid it's been a while since I have read over the various dungeons for RTC, so can't recall which were combat heavy and which weren't. The dungeon list is here: http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 31&t=23916

Some of Zed5Duke's first dungeons are quite fighting heavy. The starting characters can be weak, but otherwise the dungeon might be to your liking.

Sophia's surgical strike has many puzzles and needs an older RTC but is fun, Trantor released a dungeon that is a nice balance of stuff. Some of the older dungeons might need certain versions of return to Chaos, so while I know some of the older ones are good, won't recommend them right away.

Tower of Champion by adamski is a marvel of dungeon making wizardary, but it does have some heavy puzzle elements.

@Lord Soth: Congratulations on finishing DM! I really enjoyed reading your adventure logs, and I still envy you for playing this game without already knowing it by heart. I think the best thing you can do now if you are craving for more is playing Chaos Strikes Back. You have already been warned that the game is BRUTAL. The beginning of it is much more difficult than the end of DM, and it gets worse from there. The most difficult part is finding yourself around. It's extremely non-linear, so if you are stuck somewhere, you can usually go back and try your luck elsewhere - if you can find the way back, that is. It's a marvel of cool puzzles and evil traps, but the feeling is very different than that from playing DM.

Forget about DM2. It's mediocre at best. Lots of custom dungeons out there are better than it.

About custom dungeons: The RTC dungeons I like most are these:
- Surgical Strike. Needs an older version of RTC (I think 0.36 or 0.37). It's somewhat similar to CSB in that you have powerful characters from the beginning, and the dungeon is rather non-linear. Features a lot of really cool stuff that seem impossible in DM (like melee weapons that let you attack from the back row).
- Sukumvit's Labyrinth. A bit chaotic at first, but crammed with nice puzzles and fights. Also quite a nice story that unfolds during the game.
- Tower of Champions. I have only scratched the surface of this monster. It's gigantic, very puzzle-heavy, lots of plot. May be even harder than CSB.
- The Two Lovers. A rather small and relatively easy dungeon that has some neat ideas executed well.
- Dark Portal. A pure puzzle dungeon that doesn't even feel remotely like DM. It's extremely amazing for the craft alone, as most puzzles require solutions that won't work in normal DM.

Finally, I feel the need for a shameless plug and promote my own dungeon Doom Blade. It's rather large, semi-linear and features lots of plot.

Should CSB turn out to be too frustrating, I'd recommend The Two Lovers or Sukumvit's Labyrinth (or Doom Blade) first.

@ Trantor

Glad you enjoyed my little adventure log's.

Re-The Custom dungeons.
The version of RTC that i have is 0:49. Is that the newest version?
Sure,i'll try out your Dungeon. (If it is compatible with RTC Version 0:49)


Chaos Strikes Back
I have started playing CSB this evening.
Should i create a new thread in the CSB section of the forum,OR keep posting in this thread?

Please post new threads in the relevant forum, it keeps things tidy
And yes, RTC 0.49 is the last and final version.

I just downloaded Trantor's dungeon to my laptop-But,i don't know what to do in order to play it on RTC.

Its in my User Downloads, But when i click on it-The text below appears.



To open this file,windows needs to know what programme you want to use to open it.





How do i get that dungeon into RTC?
Im told you im computer illiterate.

You need to put the dungeon file (ending in .RTC) into your RTC / Modules folder. Do you know how to copy/move files around on your system?

Gambit37 wrote:Do you know how to copy/move files around on your system?

Erm.... No.

Do i have to right click on it,or something?

Sorry for my stupidness btw.
Once i learn how to do it i'll be fine.Im always scared of ruining my computer by doing things like this

What version of Windows do you have? It shouldn't make much difference, but specifics are a little different.

Basically, the easy way of copying a file is to:
1) Click it once to select it, then press "Ctrl + C"
2) Navigate to the folder you want to copy it to,
3) Then press "Ctrl + V" to paste a copy of the file there.

If that explanaton doesn't make sense at all, then you may want to have a look at this page to get an idea of how Windows stores files and folders:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/wind ... nd-folders

EDIT: Also, if you downloaded a ZIP file with the dungeon in it, you need to extract the RTC dungeon from the Zip file first. Here's a link on how to do that:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/wind ... -zip-files

@ Gambit37

THANKS MAN!!

I got that Trantors dungeon there on RTC now.


Im going to get the other recommended ones too (now i know how to do it)

Cheers m8.

Hey lord soth,

Just to say I've just read through all your exploits and really enjoyed them, thanks for posting! It really gets me in the mood for playing again, I'm in a similar situation to yourself in that I let it beat me back in the day and would now like to replay. I have to say though after reading about all those nasty beholders and such I think I'd rather play a more balanced version of the game. (I've created a new thread asking which version would be best for this)

Incidentally If you haven't already read about it, check out Legend of Grimrock, it's a modern game in the style of Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder.

http://www.grimrock.net

It's out next month and I can't wait!

Daniel.

@ Darklord

Thanks man.Glad you enjoyed reading them.
Regarding the various versions 'balance',this version i played on called RTC was fine....Apart from the spellcasters.
Pretty much anything in the game that could cast fireballs/poison balls/Lightning bolts were absolute hell to deal with.
Not only were the spells hugely damaging..But they were so fast as well.The Spell vines part that gave me so much trouble was mainly due to the fact that they had super human reflexes,and would wallop me with a fireball before i had a chance to do anything.

Saying that...I had so much fun playing DM.
The only game in recent times that i enjoyed as much was Fallout 3.

Whichever version you decide to play.....HAPPY ADVENTURING!!

And welcome to the forum.

WOW,Hi all
I didnt realise there was anybody in 2012 discussing this game tbh,amazing.
I have just finished Dungeon Master for the second time using RTC,the first time i completed it on the Atari STfm way way back in 1987/8,when i was 13,im now 37.
I went through it again on the PC because i never played chaos strikes back and i wanted to make a good strong party,is it possible to import your party from DM to CSB?

Im using the same chars as i used in 1988 being Halk,Hisssa,Gothmog and Morphus.
Thanks!

I know, we're a funny bunch! Still cool to see people our age range come back and rediscover the game, quite a few people doing that recently!


With RTC you can indeed import your DM party to CSB, if you click on the CSB game in the game menu at the strat, then on the prison/restart screen if you click on the scrool at the bottom of the entrance screen, you should get several options including the hint oracle, and also importing a party.


Welcome to the forums! And good luck!

Thanks beowulf

Holy shit!
I imported my chars with a 77% effectiveness rate,as soon as i was put into the game it was pitch black with worms biting at my side,instantly poisoned...much harder already!

Ill keep you posted how i progress.

That's CSB not RTC There are many hint threads around, and some poeple like lord soth have recent;ly comp[leted CSB for the first time with some hints, os feel free to check out those threads.

If you had a higher rating the monster and food consumptions would have scaled...so good thing they weren't too powerful!

@Veteran: LOL, hello and welcome to the forums - and, more importantly - welcome to Chaos Strikes Back, the official Hell! Enjoy it and keep us informed!

Wheee, yet another new person to play CSB and die a lot . Welcome to the forum, you freaky, Mophus user, you .

Thanks guys, but i dont need hints as im pro...oldskool style

I've not played CSB, but these guys make it sounds like just about the hardest Dungeon Crawler in existence... Al I can say is good luck!

Daniel.

V3teran wrote:im pro

Pro are you? Heh. What know you of pro? Hmph. Professional you think you are? Humph. Never your mind on where you are. Hmm? What doing you are. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Dungeon Master craves not these things.

Lol, CSB is probably one of the dungeons where even if you have the walkthrough it is hard. I think it was designed knowing players would speak together and help each other out!