Dungeon Master Forum

lord soth 75 wrote:One of the flying snakes dropped a RA key

Again, this is one of the keys that is not necessary but may become useful in the latest stages of the game.

lord soth 75 wrote:Does the sword still do as much damage now that it isn't magic anymore?

Yes, I think so. Except the magic, of course.

lord soth 75 wrote:and which weapon should i have him to use from now on?

It very much depends on what you've found so far. Many weapons are distributed randomly throughout the dungeon in various secret or locked alcoves etc. For a strong character, I prefer the Executioner. For a weaker one I like the "Side Splitter". Note that most if not all of these weapons have their DM counterparts (I think Side Splitter is Delta).

Re DDD: a path to DDD leads from each of the four lower parts of the dungeon (technically, from the upper most levels of the lower parts of each of the four ways). Some paths are more obvious, some are not. You've just missed the DAIN path to DDD. How did you manage to miss it is something I cannot understand. It leads

Spoiler

to the west from the chamber with flying snakes where you found the Ruby key

. Unless it was closed by some mechanism again, but I don't remember that ever happening to me.

Into The DDD.But...Which one am i in???

Adventure Log#11


Located the Diabolical Demon place during tonight's game play session (From Dain),but its left me as confused as i was when i first began playing this game!!

Past a Giant Scorpion,and up the stairs i locate a scroll with 'Fighter Charge' written on it.Further up,i find a locked door,and a set of stairs that lead up into the Demon place.
All Hell breaks loose!!!! I got about 4 Rock piles attacking me,along with a new type of Demon (And yes..the fireballs are ridiculously over powered)
Managed to take out the rock monsters with top level poison clouds,and after a lengthy battle (in which i discovered that everything re-spawned if i go back down the stairs) with this horde from hell,i eventually emerged victorious. * I should mention that i fell down a few pits whilst getting my initial bearings,and one of the pits had a Dragon roaming around..or it was the noise that dragon makes in there.I save my game practically every few mins to avoid death by pits.
Healed the entire party,then headed left where there was a room full of the Fire pit monsters (or flames).
Took these things out one by one,and noticed that one of them had dropped a key (Sapphire Key).

Headed up the stairs from here,and encountered yet another new creature..A big massive black dog that breathe fire,and then one of the Stone Golems.
Nothing else here apart from a pit,and a room with a magik box behind a locked door.
Went back down to the room where i killed the Fire Monsters and through into the room where i killed the rock piles and demons.
'Fighters Charge' written on wall.Ran forward over a seemingly timed pit,into a larger area with blue mist..and a pit (Something was written on wall,told me that the pit was safe to enter)
Saved my game here.

Im not sure where i am exactly in this DDD,but everything went ok tonight apart from the momentary shock when i discovered that the Demons,Rock Piles and Fire Monsters kept re-spawning.


-Creature Notes-
How many different species of Worm are in this game? The Worms in the games opening chamber were a golden colour,But the worms in the maze tunnel i have been using as a training room/food source are a like a dark red colour.

Woo, you found the DDD . Think of this as a higher-level version of the Junction - it's a sort of new, central point from which you can access Part Two of each of the four Ways...only in this case the route to the start of each Way isn't quite so obvious . However, each "Part Two" does have its name on the wall beside the door that is the entrance (ie there's a closed door with "Ku" written on the wall beside it somewhere, somewhere else there is a door for "Dain", and so on), so you'll know when you find one .
The big black dog-monster that makes a noise like a Dragon is a Hellhound. They're not too tough - think of them as CSB's equivalent of Giant Rats - they growl like Dragons, they're low to the ground, and they drop yummy edible legs when they die .
On the subject of Worms, there are two in CSB - Yellow (or Gold, if you prefer) and Brown. So you've met both types now. I don't really notice any difference between them, besides the colour - they're both easy to blow up and their food is all shit .

Don't beleive Ameena's lies, it's April the 1st here! Ok, actually it's me that was lying...


In the original DM, they faked more colours by palette swapping the 16 available. One of the byproducts of this was that certain monsters changed colours if you used a different pallete. You won't see it in the original DM game since the critters were designed with that, however certain custom dungeons show this quirk, and CSB deliberately used this fact to create some wonderful varieties of colour on the worms. They are all the exact same creature though!

The dragon you fought was likely the one just under the DDD. Quite evil to drop in to a pitted room with him around!


Once you can navigate the DDD, you will spot pits that open and close, letting you go to other routes and finding the other doorways. The fighters charge ropute is the one easiest to find, because it's flagged You are making amazing progress with this! Even more impressive with the RTC spellcaster issue!

@ beowuuf

Thanks man.
My progress reports here are put together into easily followable adventure logs.As i am playing i am making notes about what happens,and then when i log in here,i compress my notes into bite sized versions of my experiences.The gameplay sessions themselves are nowhere near as comfortable as they read.
I must have fallen down a million pits whilst playing this game,but i save my game very often (so that i can map).
If i made a note of every time my entire party was nuked by those Vexirks...it would be kinda depressing reading.

I got more comfortable once i found that reliable food source (The worm tunnel)
One of my major concerns when i started playing CSB was that my characters would starve or die of thirst.Finding a reliable food source allowed me to sink into a DM 'Rat Room' comfort zone in some ways.
As long as i have chests full of food and water,i feel i can take on the world in these games.At my own pace of couse...very slowly.

Thanks for the info on the Worm colours too.
Im kinda missing the Purple worms...I keep hoping to run into a DM Level 4 esque worm lair.
Missing the Screamers too!! I only ran into them once so far in this game.

Man..... I SO want to create a 'More of the same' kind of Dungeon once i figure that editor out.
*No DM2 monsters or wall sets (I HATE those DM2 graphics)
*Just original DM graphics in a mammoth new dungeon.Screamers..Worms..Trolls.. all of that good stuff.
I just gotta learn how to use the editor first

DDD is impossible without hints and maps.
Difficult with hints and maps.
Only long practice and repetition can make
it reasonable. There are a hundred details that
one must memorize to get through it smoothly.
Things like going backwards over invisible
pressure pads.

lord soth 75 wrote:Im not sure where i am exactly in this DDD

I'll tell you: You're exactly

Spoiler

nine

steps from the entrance.

DDD is an extraordinary place. You'll hardly see more puzzles concentrated in such a small area, it's basically a puzzle / problem / enemy on each step. Wonderful place.

Re "Which one am I in": if you use the Hint Oracle in the entrance to the DDD, it'll direct you to the four ways. As the "Fighter charge" writing suggests, you're currently on

Spoiler

the KU

way.

You're progress is amazing. Go on! Do it! Trust us! Enter the pit! And don't worry that it's the 1st of April!

Ooh, I didn't know the thing about the colour-palette thingy on Worms. I just thought there were two different-coloured Worm species (but since they seem the same, I figured the only thing different was the colour...turns out I was right then ).

Funnily enough, although I did know about the palette thing, I always looked and still look at them as on two different species - the Gold ones appear larger and thus stronger and more dangerous than the Brown ones to me (perhaps because lighter objects usually appear larger than darker ones of the same size).

Stone Golem/Death Knights and a dead end/Surrounded By Dragons!!

Adventure Log#12

DDD-KU??

Down the pit,into an area with a Dragon nearby (Could hear it moving about,but never actually saw it),Found a set of stairs that lead up,and back into the DDD area,A stone Golem was guarding a narrow corridor,and there was a poison trap (Placed item on the pressure plate to stop it).
Had to take on the Golem using fireballs,because its way too risky fighting those things head on in a corridor.

Found an ornate looking door,and used the Solid key (Guess im in the DDD Ku)
Got stuck in the next part.A long corridoor with 'Dead End' written into the wall,and a pack of Death Knights comming towards me.
Died a few times in this part..before noticing that the wall opens up as the knights are right on top of you.

Next,i was in an area called 'Dragons Den'.....and im not sure if i have to kill these Dragons or not.2 of them escaped from their holding pens and i tried battling them,but got caught eventually and died.
I noticed treasure chests in the 2 rooms that had opened-but i didn't have chance to open the chests because the Dragons were on my tail.
The difficulty curve has most definitely been ramped up if i indeed have to battle 3 Dragons at the same time.

Saved my game here.I'll try to take on 1 dragon at a time when i play tomorrow night,because this tactic im using right now obviously isnt going to work.

You are on the right track in the dragon's den. Maybe VEN clouds to keep the critters back, and also maybe eventually wipe them out. Good luck!

These Dragons are probably about as tough as the ones you found in that maze in Ros, so they shouldn't be too difficult (unless, as you've found out, you get surrounded ). Watch out for standing directly in line with any of the portcullises in the room, since the Dragons can blast through them in one hit .

beowuuf wrote:You are on the right track in the dragon's den. Maybe VEN clouds to keep the critters back, and also maybe eventually wipe them out. Good luck!

Thanks for the tip.
It never dawned on me to try the poison cloud magic.My standard tactic whilst fighting the DM dragon (and the CSB Dragon on level 10) was to run around it and bully it with melee attacks.
I cant do that in this dragon den because i had 2 of em chasing me..plus a third one trying to smash out of its holding pen to join in the carnage.
lol.Its like a scene from Jurassic Park.

Im assuming that if i kill these 3 beasts a door will open or something?
There doesn't seem to be any exit from this place right now

Ameena wrote:These Dragons are probably about as tough as the ones you found in that maze in Ros, so they shouldn't be too difficult (unless, as you've found out, you get surrounded ). Watch out for standing directly in line with any of the portcullises in the room, since the Dragons can blast through them in one hit .

I only killed 1 of the ROS maze Dragons.After finding the Emerald key,i backtracked to the start of the maze and then went back into the fireball/scorpion area...and then back tracked all the way back to the Junction of the ways.
Yeah...i know, im a coward.

lord soth 75 wrote:Had to take on the Golem using fireballs,because its way too risky fighting those things head on in a corridor.

Fireballs have very little effect on golems, so you're wasting your mana

The fact the doors can be blasted open by the dragons should indicate you will have more rooms to explore after

Gambit37 wrote: Fireballs have very little effect on golems, so you're wasting your mana

I felt it was the only viable option available to me.The Golem was in a corridor and i had no way of attacking it with melee attacks from the side or back.
The one time i did actually try to engage it in face to face combat,it nearly killed Staam with just 1 swipe of its weapon.
I suppose i could have used Magic Boxes to freeze it..But,i want to keep the boxes in case i run into any annoying spellcasters*.

* I would never had made it through the battle in the Vexirk lair without magic boxes.
Magic boxes are LAW in this game imo.

Apparently, your problems, again, are caused by the RTC's over-powered fireballs fired by the monsters. In CSBWin, the dragons can't blow the portcullis themselves, so you just blow a hole in one of them and usually manage to kill the dragons one by one.

lord soth 75 wrote:have to battle 3 Dragons at the same time

Are you sure there are

Spoiler

three

dragons in the area?

Ameena wrote:these Dragons are probably about as tough as the ones you found in that maze in Ros

Oh, they are much, much stronger, at least in CSBWin. In the maze the dragons have about

Spoiler

100 or 300

HP or so whereas in the Den they have

Spoiler

1700 or 1800

!

lord soth 75 wrote:There doesn't seem to be any exit from this place right now

An exit exists, but with those creatures on your tail I don't think you'll be able to locate and open it. I do suggest you take them out first.

Good luck!

Heh I've got all this to look forward to one day!

Daniel.

Yeah. DM is just a training for CSB. No, it's actually a tutorial. If you had DM and CSB in one dungeon together, DM would only be the first level of it (the "Hall of Champions").

Gambit37 wrote:Fireballs have very little effect on golems, so you're wasting your mana

In actual DM, if you need to use magic on a magic-resistant creature, lightning bolts work much better (that's not to say they work well, but better) because they do physical impact damage, which is not subject to a monster's magic resistance. Mon lightning bolts hit like a stone club thrown by Halk after drinking about 10 ku potions. RTC's formulas are different and weird, so I don't know what it does.

Jan wrote:In CSBWin, the dragons can't blow the portcullis themselves, so you just blow a hole in one of them and usually manage to kill the dragons one by one.

I don't think this is the case. The CSB hint book even makes a teasing comment to the contrary: "Don't let the closed doors give you a false sense of security. You'll find that you're not the only one who can blast doors open!"

Sophia wrote:I don't think this is the case. The CSB hint book even makes a teasing comment to the contrary: "Don't let the closed doors give you a false sense of security. You'll find that you're not the only one who can blast doors open!"

With all due respect, ma'am, and I'm referring to my experiences with CSBWin, it has never ever happened to me in CSBWin that a dragon in the Dragon Den would blast the portcullis. You can just hear KA-BOOM and that's it, you can only laugh at him through the bars. I've been there last Saturday again, I've promenaded around, the dragons were doing everything they could but to no avail. So either this is a rule or I've been extremely lucky all the years. Or it would take some time for them to blast through. Dunno, ask Paul, but I'm just reporting that it has never happened to me. And - yeah - I'm not widely known as a lucky man.

Jan wrote:I've promenaded around, the dragons were doing everything they could but to no avail.

Yet another reason the Amiga version was better, then.
Those poor dragons actually had a chance!

Yeah, I think someone finally realised that the Dragon's shot weak fireballs or the doors were too strong or something in CSBwin. Seems funny to need strong magic to blow open the door of a fighter way!

Battle with Red Dragons/Corbum Located??

Adventure Log#13

DDD-KU
Made some progress tonight folks.And...i think i have located a corbum,but im not sure how to reach it yet.
Continued my save point in the Dragons Den,and managed to defeat one of the red beasts.Found a secret wall,and it moved into another area with yet another dragon.So,there is more than 3 dragons here
Found some device on the wall (similar to the magnifying glass puzzle from DM)
Shortly afterwards,i found the puzzle piece in a treasure chest....A piece of armour called 'Power Towers'

Made my escape from this dragon den,and ran into some more of the Hell hound creatures i encountered a few days ago.
I am now in an area with a RA door,and there is an area with many pits in front of me.
Beyond the pits is a wall with an alcove..and im assuming that the glowing trinket in the alcove is one of the corbums.
Saved my game here.

Jan wrote:
With all due respect, ma'am, and I'm referring to my experiences with CSBWin, it has never ever happened to me in CSBWin that a dragon in the Dragon Den would blast the portcullis. You can just hear KA-BOOM and that's it, you can only laugh at him through the bars. I've been there last Saturday again, I've promenaded around, the dragons were doing everything they could but to no avail. So either this is a rule or I've been extremely lucky all the years. Or it would take some time for them to blast through. Dunno, ask Paul, but I'm just reporting that it has never happened to me. And - yeah - I'm not widely known as a lucky man.

The Dragons in RTC CSB are blasting through the portcullis' with just 1 fireball.....and they do it even if you are not standing in their line of sight.

Dragon's shot weak fireballs or the doors were too strong

I did some little tests. Anything less than a
level 6 fireball had no effect.

The Dragon launches very wimpy Fireballs.
Level 1 or less. The power of the fireball
comes from the the 'Spell Casting Range'
of the Dragon. See:
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/1363
It is different for early DM and CSB but is
larger for CSB.

Different doors do have different resistances
to destruction. The grate
door has a resistance of 110 and a wooden
door a resistance of 42. See:
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/1395

I would like to hear from someone who plays
CSB on the Atari emulator. The algorithm is
long and complicated and I could very well have
messed it up.

Beyond the pits is a wall with an alcove

Each Corbum requires that you

Spoiler

find a tiny switch
and then

solve a relatively easy 'Pit Puzzle'.

@ Paul

I didn't see a switch in this area,but there was a pressure plate on the ground.
If getting this corbum is a timing exercise,then i will struggle greatly.
I couldn't complete 'supplies for the quick' because i wasn't fast enough on the mouse.

You use the mouse to move around? Ahh...try using the keyboard and you'll find it so much easier! Then you just put the cursor in the right position, use the keyboard to run, and then just click when you're in front of an alcove to grab something - then run back .
Anyway...I don't recall having to run any timed puzzles at the Corbum Pillar, though it has been ages since I did it. Maybe check for false walls, or something. I can't remember much about that room, except that it's possible to

Spoiler

sneak around hte pillar at one point ot get two Corbum pieces in one visit (I think you can do it from the Ros side to sneak around to the Dain side or something, to avoid doing Part Two of that Way altogether...can't remember now)

.