Dungeon Master Forum

Woah, kicking off a fight, are we? Hrmm...let me see, my views player-wise and character-wise sort of coincide here. From a player PoV, I think that starting a fight in a room with a number of armed, armoured, and probably skilled fighters (even without their commander), probably used to fighting in a group because, well, they're soldiers, may not be a particularly good mvoe. They could have reinforcements anywhere and in any numbers, and they've told us themselves that they have a mage around here somewhere - what if he's really uber and in the next room? But suppose we do gank these guys? We could be right in the middle of their stronghold (well alright, I suppose it was Chaos's originally, but I mean, clearly we're on their ground - they know this territory well or they wouldn't have been able to lead us in here without getting lost), and with no knowledge of any of this place except the place we've been, which we already know is ultimately a dead end of closed doors because it's where we started. Alright so they're clearly not very nice guys (certainly Arbrut and Drommal - I don't recall Thinpas being overtly rude or aggressive toward anyone so far), but we don't know what they want with us, or their motives, or what they're doing here. We don't know the extent of their strength/powers/knowledge or how many guys (and what kind) they have in reserve. Alternatively we could just try and leg it or something, but we know there's assorted nasties in this place - if we don't run afoul of more soldiers we might just get eaten/squished/fried/blown up (etc) by something else. Or fall down a pit. Or get stuck in an inescapable room. Or any other DM-style trap that might befall us .
Let me see, what would my little murafu think of this - well, firstly, of the languages Falkor used, she does have Halfling, but only has one point in it so probably wouldn't be able to understand any of what he said apart from the fact that it was in Halfling. Like any murafu, she's not really innately aggressive - she'll attack stuff in self defence or something, but won't just attack without provocation, as Falkor seems to be doing. If he suddenly kicks off and starts chucking fireballs, she'll most likely think the murafu equivalent of "holy crap, what the hell is he doing?!" and try to get out of the way. Yes of course she doesn't like these armour-wearing guys much, and knows she and the others don't have much choice but to go along with what they want, at least for now, but her preference would be to basically just get away from them. That doesn't necessarily mean legging it as fast as possible at the first available opprtunity, just trying to find a way to maybe persuade them to let the group go, or something. Given Drommal's attitude toward her, however, she's rather unlikely to attempt any such thing with him, and would probably wait for someone else to come along and try speaking to them. She knows these guys got into this place somehow, and given that her superobjective is (like everyone else's in the group, I imagine) to get out of this place and back to the sunlit world of the surface, she'd like to find out from them just how they got in, so that she can get out. Behaving aggresively toward them or even attacking them probably won't make them very forthcoming with their information.
Sooo...basically I suppose I'm suggesting that we be cautious, at least. I don't know whether starting a fight with these guys is a very good idea since we don't know how many of them there are, how good they are at fighting, or any idea of the layout (and inhabitants) of the area we're in. They might not be nice, but right now they're a potential source of information. Yes, this mage guy we're supposedly being taken to see probably won't be a very nice chap either, but we won't know that until we meet him, will we? It seems these guys knew something about us before they met us (that we had a halfling and a half-orc in our party), but we don't know what else they might know or what other advantages they might have over us. Maybe they haven't tied any of our foursome up because they don't think we're a threat. Or that we'd be that stupid.
From player PoV, I say we maybe don't kick off a fight yet. From character PoV, she's unlikely to partake in an unprovoked attack on these people and would most likely duck out of the way and look on in bewildered puzzlement that one of her suppose "friends" can behave so aggressively toward people who have, basically, just been a bit rude and pushy.
Wooo, long post there. Wargh it's midnight, and I didn't even have club tonight, lol. Better go to bed...

Ameena wrote: I think that starting a fight in a room with a number of armed, armoured, and probably skilled fighters (even without their commander), probably used to fighting in a group because, well, they're soldiers, may not be a particularly good mvoe.

True, they obviously are good enough to be able to establish a foothold here. whether that is skill, strength in numbers, or some other factor is unknown. And their armour certainly means mechanically it will be difficult to damage them. I've never said it was stupid to wait. Just pointing out this is probably one of the best chances to escape you will get outside of an external event affecting the whole group. As to working as a team, at the moment they are scattered while you are together.

They could have reinforcements anywhere and in any numbers, and they've told us themselves that they have a mage around here somewhere - what if he's really uber and in the next room?

True, but the point is you are going to the mage anyway, and you are probably going to where there are more soldiers too.

We could be right in the middle of their stronghold

This is very true - but each step you are taking is obviously going deeper into the place.
Interesting assumption about them knowing this place well. Provided everyone made their checks, you could have escaped very fast back to the first room from here. As it is, Falkor can lead you slowly back to the first room with certainty. What makes you think the soldiers aren't just leading you through familiar paths they have scouted well?

Alternatively we could just try and leg it or something, but we know there's assorted nasties in this place - if we don't run afoul of more soldiers we might just get eaten/squished/fried/blown up (etc) by something else. Or fall down a pit. Or get stuck in an inescapable room. Or any other DM-style trap that might befall us .

Awwww, you think that isn't the default setting for this game? It's almost as if that's the plan

She does have Halfling, but only has one point in it so probably wouldn't be able to understand any of what he said apart from the fact that it was in Halfling.

Nope, that would be a waste of a skill point. 1 point means you understand basic phrases - basically pigeon english version. Haynuus has 1 point in common after all! He talks fine and understands fine as long as you don't all waffle, and as long as he isn't expected to be the talker of the group. If Falkor talks too fast or too convoluted, sure, you might not understand him, but otherwise you understand the language fine. 2 points is knowing it like any fluent speaker (so all our non-english friends who I threaten to ban because they speak english perfectly well would be this level), 3 is knowing complex speech (colloquialisms, common turns of phrase, technical language) and 4 is native - you would understand dialects, region turns of phrase, etc.

she'd like to find out from them just how they got in, so that she can get out.

I'm not sure if you re-read the parts with Westian knowledge, so just to make sure you realise this as a player - the room you were in originally was an greeting anti-chamber. Beyond the cold grate you sniffed at was the hall of champions. That was the logical way out if the grate could be moved. Helm looked at you strangely when you asked how he got in and said 'through the entrance' or something. And the soldier smell seemed to have come from through that way too. I'm not saying something changed, and you can guess that trying to go out that way won't provide a story end (or if it didn. not a quick anti-climactic one) but other than the doors you've closed off yourselves, and the fact four elite soldiers are now standing guard, the main way out was that way.
Obviously I did everything sneaky I could to discourage you going that way, but otherwise you were quite obliging in just not trying to get out that way. Hopefully the hint that Theron may be alive (and obviously he could get you out if you can figure it all out) is why you guys are going further into this place. Or because you sense something is wrong and want to figure out what it is. I haven't actually asked you what your motivations are for a while, because obviously I need to ensure that character wise the game is making sense!

Behaving aggresively toward them or even attacking them probably won't make them very forthcoming with their information.

Sadly, the idea for this attack is very well timed and yet mis-timed in that regard. with nothing going on, the next update relating to Westian's behaviour and something to do with the appearance of the new prisoner might have triggers some actions in the soldiers that would make you realise they aren't very nice people. Still, your character can only act on what they know.


Anyway, as I already said to your fellow new player with regard to something they were doing, I'm not going to instantly punish you for actions just because you aren't going to do what I would do. There might well be hints as you go along a path (either direction) that it is a bad idea. If those clues aren't picked up, then bad things might start happening. And actions will always have consequences. And the dungeon is dangerous. And really, the amount of hit points some of you guys have is frankly quite annoying. However, I won't just kill you guys for making a logical play either way. And right now, arguments for not attacking and for attacking are both very logical and have their up and down sides.

Good luck, either way!

Ameena wrote:<snip>she does have Halfling, but only has one point in it so probably wouldn't be able to understand any of what he said apart from the fact that it was in Halfling. <snip>

Haynuus has just one point in Orc... He was born and bred with orcs but move 20 miles away from his home and they find it difficult to understand his accent!

Balls, Beo just posted now... Reading... Exactly what I said above

I don't think legging it is a good idea with a halfling in the party!... Mind you, armour is heavy isn't it
The normal soldiers in armour may drop quite quickly, but the sergeants and captain won't. I agree that we're out gunned if they're all here at once... And they're not. How much damage does a fireball do again?

Finally, history has shown anyone with white skulls emblems/painted on their clothes are generally bad dudes. Falkor already indicated that Gholst was an even badder dude. I'd like to be a bad dude too if only because the DM is indicating that... It's time to be bad.


As an aside:
* picture this scene of Haynuus if Falkor f*cks up his fireball: http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff35 ... leandy.jpg
* The new guy looks like one these human, right?:
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/239 ... owar+1.jpg

Yes, the new guy looks like those dudes, if those dudes looked more like Zed in heavy armour! Like the Haynuus picture so much Falkor's spell will have a 99% chance of backfiring. 2d6 damage (plus potentially another +3) does alot of damage

Yup, armour is heavy, so it will be a spectacularly fast-paced chase with base speeds of 20 feet!

With regards to backtracking, yes, Falkor could lead everyone out by remembering his way, but I did mention before that Ameena could do it much faster by just following the blatant scent trail they've all left .
I'm not sure how she will react to a member of her own group kicking off a fight, that's probably one of my main problems - to behave in-character, she wouldn't just pitch in and start running around backstabbing people just because a fight has been started, especially not by one of her own side under no immediate provocation. Especially using means that are so obviously used to try and kill people rather than just disarm or disable them (which is what she would prefer).
I do realise that leaving a breakout attempt until later might be a bad move, but if we manage to get away now, where do we go? Yeah, we can go back to where we started, but where do we go from there? We know we originate from a dead end, and we don't know how well these guys know the layout of this place. We could run into any number of problems, and with any potential number of angry soldiers (plus a mage, plus who knows what else) after us, who can say what the end result will be (other than that hopefully Wuffy doesn't want us wiped out that early )?
I can see the reasons for starting a fight now and trying to get away while we seem to have a chance, but don't expect Ameena to automatically dive in and help straight away. She'll probably be more shocked than anything else. Plus if Falkor's fireball goes off alright, she'll probably be crapping herself at the sudden horrible burniness of it all.

Ameena does bring up a good point, in that following the soldiers means that you get to go (hopefully) to someone who knows something. Of course, unless you are lucky that person will want you for their own reasons at best...

I'm still not sure how fast and detailed the scent ability can be, since you don't have points in survival and don't have the tracking feat. It's certainly something people can do visually at low DCs. At some point I will get around to figuring out a definitive answer!

Anyway, it's a moot point, since neither Haynuus nor Falkor kept up observation (well, Haynuus just rolled badly, unfortunately), so Falkor will have to stop and pause for as long as Ameena will - just hopefully between you both you will come to a consensus.

Ok, so I seem to have bumped the length of this discussion, so let's just summarise:

money: blow things up in this room, fight
Ian: Attack, though go back through
ameena: wait it out
oh_brother: ???
new player: attack!

DM advice: This might be your best chance to escape, but you will miss your best chance for a while to be led to a knowledgeable person. Or, in other words - hehehehehehehehehehhe


Glad to be of service

Hello all.... I thought that I might actually make myself known. Been stalking these threads for quite a few weeks now
I say, to kill these guys if the others (the party members) start it. If they don't go for the attack, I'll just sit back and watch.

Ah ha! There is no escape now! Welcome.

LOL. Now we can go smackin' heads together... Strangely enough, I don't have Haynuus's talent for sticking fingers into various orafices

OK in order of preference:

• Attack
• Shoot and scoot
• Do nuthin'
• Wait for OB's opinion for something seriously intelligent to do... Maybe this should be first!

Atack for me

Oh, so Lord_Bones has been roleplaying the same adventure secretly elsewhere...? Sneaky....!

About a week and a half. Fear not, once everything is resolved here in the next few days, his OOC and IC posts will be slotted seeeeemlessly into the tapestery of the posts here. I might actually move the game over to that forum (making it visible) just to unclog creative writings and allow for a few more threads!

Ohh blimey this means more words!

We were running a little light!

Basically one day the IC thread will leap to about 16 pages

Now THIS is an interesting conversation
From what I can see at the moment both the IC and the OOC threads of mine are 2 pages long. So, yeah, about 16 pages. Lots of reading

Now, back to the topic at hand... given the situation, I'd say for myself to fight, but picking a fight could be very bad for my character (I'm a paladin, evil actions = loss of paladin powers). So, I'm gonna jump in at the end of the first round (no roll here, but I'm counting my initiative roll as 2).

Sorry for the delay, I was in meetings all day for work and I am going to an evening class soon until late. And the delay just came at an exciting time: beo throws in a new member (welcome Lord_Bones!) and money makes things very interesting with the soldiers! Westian would be unwilling to start a fight (I mentioned that in a previous post). Even though he does not like them, and realizes that a fight might be necessary, he did not want to attack them just for being nasty. That said if fists start flying he will jump straight in with Falkor and Haynuus. So… fireball first, then someone frees the knight (he has armour and might be a bad ass), and then we all jump them.

Still think it will be tough, they have good armour and the other three, including the captain, will come through soon. So…what about money’s original idea/ Ian's "shoot and scoot" option? Wait for them all to come through, then we run back and attack them as they come through the teleporter? Grabbing the knight on the way. Don’t know how it would work mechanically, but would it be possible for us to form a half-circle on the far side of the teleporter so we can all beat whoever comes through? Just a stream of thoughts at the moment, but don’t have much time! Anyway as players you can assume that Westian will take part.

Don't worry about me or my "friend" in a fight. I've already decapitated a guard and rendered another unconcious (where did me and my buddy get the armor from, I wonder?)

I think that we should be able to get beat these guys. But, it could still be tough, even the two pansies I put down, didn't go without a decent fight.

Aww, I think you made enough comments LB that epople can work out who you are. I will transfer the previous two pages of story, hoping it will mesh well enough!

You do have a power that can help you make moral choices LB, though you might find it a distraction to use, especially if the soldiers attention is on you. Luckily, Westian has a habit of being a distraction. The fatc you decapitated a soldier and didn't get any punishment might be an indication of somethign to do with these soldiers!


And lol, the knight might not need much in the way of freeing OB Funny how both Helm and the knight (whose name is Farel) look incapacitated but aren't.

As to the shoot and scoot and push back plan - sounds good actually. Fighting without a five foot space around you limits both your attack rolls and defense. So if the soldiers came into a place where their movement was limited, they would take penalties defending themselves. However, Westian, LB and his friend are about 15 - 20 feet away from the teleporter (I need to get the map up) so that might be difficult.

I guess the onus is back on money... some concerns that a few of your companions won't instantly rally around in the first round or so, and yet sounds like it could be doable. Since Falkor is the one who has been requested, he's possibly the one in the leats or most danger in staying captured. So you are either saving yourself and risking your collegues, or perhaps you are saving your party and putting uneccesary risk to yourself.

I won't update tonight if people want to attack right away, though I will be floating around to answer more questions. I'd suggest money has the castng vote here. If Falkor acts instantly, then essentially he's taking a surprise round, and then I'll need to put up a tactical map and then initiative will be rolled.

If Falkor doens't act right away, then I will post a minor update for what the three soldiers do and where they go.

If Falkor doens't act at all, then I'll let my already planned actions play out fully what will happen when Drommal gets to the other side, catching up on Westian's comments!

My first action (if combat is happening) is using "run" to instantly close that evil gap, but I'll possibly take multiple Attacks of Opportunity.

EDIT: @Beowuuf: The two threads are better off remaining seperate, they don't really look good together. Your posts at times are a bit confusing too.

Wow, just re-read some previous posts recently, and I really need to edit stuff

Then again, since I now have to rush around to get food before my mother calls, clean up for maintenance people coming tomorrow, and need to get washing turned / put away, that will have to wait a little bit! Apologies for any headaches from worse than usual typing...

ian_scho wrote: "It's Derek the Paladinic Crusader!... Isn't it?"

Oh, and this weird bit of serendipity had me on the floor even more than the cross-purpose sleight of hand between Helm and Haynuus earlier. Glad to share the weirdness of it sooner rather than later!

Lord_BoNes wrote:My first action (if combat is happening) is using "run" to instantly close that evil gap, but I'll possibly take multiple Attacks of Opportunity.

EDIT: @Beowuuf: The two threads are better off remaining seperate, they don't really look good together. Your posts at times are a bit confusing too.

I'll either edit them to match, or will break them apart at some point. The plan is to take the game out of the creative forums so that more threads can be supported. Just not right now! I forgot to have lunch, I just realised


And yeah, movement will draw attacks of opportunity. Westian is possible the worse one for that, since he isn't armoured!

I really do wonder how Ameena's gonna react to all this, lol. She's not gonna be happy, I'll tell you that much. Not if it's our side who starts the fight. It's gonna make her less trusting of Falkor, and more wary of him. I'm sure a fight will be interesting, but to keep my character in character, don't expect her to be particularly supportive of anyone. She might even just leg it. I wonder what would happen then. I'll have to see how things play out and what she ends up doing.

Well, you've already seen what happens if someone is separate from the group - just run them individually.

Infact, just for a fun bit of insight intowhat goes on behind the screen (most of which you lot never then get to see cause you do actions to alter the plan) if Westian had not mentioned his affiliations, Ameena may well have found herself grabbed and run back to the entrance by Helm at the first opportunity! After all, she's the only one that seemed trustworthy! Well, an attempt would ahve been made, anyway!

The entrance? As in, the starting room? Ha, good luck to him with that, seeing how we (well, Falkor ) managed to trigger pretty much every door on that floor to close .
Trying to grab Ameena and make off with her though? Hehe, he may well have found himself with a chomped hand and no murafu if that had been the case . I imagine she could easily bite a human's fingers right off, but of course, she wouldn't unless she was really desperate .

it would have been funny...or tragic if drommal has caught up with him...

OK, I'll start re-reading the other thread for those new entries from... Here. I think it's quite funky that there was another story in there, happening at the same time, and appreciate that the DM took the effort to label it differently as well!

Edit: Done. Good editing job fella. And some great rolls!

You can tell as the story is called 'DM D&D offhoot'. So it's something to do with owls. The levle of typing stays bang up from there. Spot the distracted person these last few weeks!

Please tell me if anyone isn't standing where thye think they would be standing... Helm would have been at the side furthest from all the happenings, so Ameena if you would stand on that side too Helm will be one step right from you instead