Dungeon Master Forum

Hi, just wanted you to know that I have begun working on an editor for the text files that make up a dungeon. So far it can load and create level layouts and water puddles can be placed on ground.

I'll take the work slow as I do not know what Gearge might have up his sleave (Lots and lots of documentation would be nice ) and I do not want to remake it all again.

Oh well, suggestion for editor features are wellcome I guess. Its written for Windows and is an MDI application with one level visible per child window (Thought of some drag and drop between levels for targetting).

I've been having loads of thoughts about the functionality of an editor. However, there's way too many and I don't have the time to list them all right now. When I am a little less busy, I'll post some of the suggestions.

As a general rule, right clicks rule!

TwinEd is an DM like editor that might give ideas about how to make it simple for the user.
It is available at <a href="http://twinfalls.free.fr">twinfalls.free.fr</a>

<a href="http://twinfalls.free.fr">twinfalls.free.fr</a>

Right now its an MDI application with one MDI-child window per level, thus the user can see several levels at once in the same dungeon. And also see targets on different levels highligted when editing. Thanks to the nifty "AlphaBlend" feature in delphi a level form can also be transparent allowing for "overlay" editing maybe useful for aligning pits. In general the map display is symbolic like in TwinEd. It is important that users feels at home and have use for experience in other similiar programs.

As a rule of thumb left mouse button adds, and right mouse button selects. Curently selected object is highlighted on the map and shown in a "ToolWindow" for editing properties. The main forms toolbar works as a "palette" for adding new objects very much as in a paint program.

A beta version comes when it is capable of actually editing without having the user walk on a razors edge, that is hopefully only a few months away .

1. Don't make it feature-ripped shareware
2. Don't make it feature-ripped shareware
3. Don't make it feature-ripped shareware

Something like Dmute would be nice; A little easier, perhaps? I mean, you could easily screw up...everything with DMute's features (featurelessness). Another good role-model could DMJava's editor.

I like the sound of the set up so far (the multiple levels, and transparency).
I think a feature like dreamweaver, where you can open the raw file side by side with the gui so you can tweak items you are working on, and see the changes when you click back to the gui.

Considering RTC is free, it would be poor show to charge for an editor, so I don't think that's even an issue.

Some things to bear in mind that a full-fledged RTC editor will *require*, beyond the basic dungeon building functionality:

1) Ability to generate new characters and specify their portrait (must be loadable from a file on harddisk). These characters are then available to place in mirrors.
2) Ability to generate new objects (the functionality is already there, George hasn't published the specs yet). You'll need to be able to specify the relevant bitmap files and sound files that new objects use, and which existing item the new object behaves like.
3) Ability to generate Hints for the hint-oracle, and link them to specific objects/tiles.

Other features that would be nice to have:

1) Control over how the object IDs are created, and the ability to create spacing easily. For example, say the editor defaults to creating one ID after another. It would be good to click a button that allows all the IDs to auto-increment by five or ten. Will aid adding objects later. Alternatively, design an ID numbering system that handles all this stuff automatically in a logical fashion. Perhaps add the ability to specify the starting value for each level?

2) If you provide the Dreamweaver like feature that Beowuuf specified, you must ensure that if the user modifies the curent txt file outside of the editor, the editor is aware of this and reloads the changes automatically, or asks the user if they want to reload.

3) Previews of certain parameters for items. For example, when specifying properties for doors, it would be cool to see the animation of the door in the editor itself.

I think an editor for RTC will be cool, but I imagine it'll be a big project!!!

Dreamweaver source editing is not planned as internaly every object is treated as an object (OOP style), and I do not see how to easely implement it (Better get something done then waiting forever for the ultimate ).

As for featureripped shareware the answer is: NO!
The editor will be released under GPL (or similiar) Wich means all features including the full sourcecode will be available for everyone.
It is being written in Delphi using "Delphi 6 Personal edition" wich is free and allows for creation of free non-comercial projects.

It is fully OOP and I am trying to modulate it well so that people can easely add new features without screwing up for eachother .

I am thinking about creating editor for this fantastic game in PHP-GTK ... it doesn't have a compiler by now, but I think it will soon change. (hopefully)... but, it's the only GUI language which I am kinda fluent in (besides a little of java, very little)...

I am interested in some things, like how to extract the bitmaps, sounds and objects from the game files?

I didn't noticed anywhere how ti include external files in a dungeon, how do you do it? Do you just specify the path and file name in the definitions part of the file? The specs for this are essential.

Btw, the dungeon files are very nicely done. Text, plain, simple... I just wonder, isn't there a memory limit while the program would like to compile a very large dungeon? Other way, is there a limit of size for the dungeon? Or is there a limit for anything?

There is not doubt about charging for the editor, I think.
I agree with enhancing the features of the editor but keeping the simplicity in mind.

Regards

Equus / ZPC

The specs for defining new objects hasn't been published yet - but most of it's already in the latest release of RTC and works beautifully. I'm sure it will all come with time.

There's no way at present of extracting stuff from the RTC DAT files and I don't know if George intends to publish a spec for it. They use his own compression algorithm which he may not wish to publish.

Hmmm... I actually wasn't clear in what i asked for...
by extraction I meant if there is posibility to show the object (bitmap, sound, creature) in external program ... e.g. editor . for example... so you can see thing at least like in DMJava editor... that's what I asked for? or do you have to have everything copied into folders and also have a map of files - what file is under what definition...

btw...thanx Gambit for the answer.

How come there is so little excitement about a RTC editor?
A fully successfull game needs: engine + editor.

Twinfall my guess is that most people who uses RTC is actually only interested in playing the original DM and CSB dungeons which are if you ask me very hard to top.

As I see it the work put into the editor from my part is proportional to the interest of others, so currently I have not waorked on it for two weeks when I installed Delphi and tested if it ran in Virtual PC on my new Mac. Oh well...

I'm very interested in the editor, just I'm busy with other things just now, so I haven't even touched the new release of RTC, for example.
Just a shame, so little time, so much things wanting to do...

Personally the idea that attracted me for RTC was to have a much more expandable DM to create on...if I want DM and CSB, they are available in other forms! (maybe not as nice as RTC though, and I do love playing the dungeons on them : ) )

I saw in another thread that RTC doesn't have a lot of numeric limits except a level of about 200x200 "for performance reasons".

I, for one, am hoping for large numbers.

The editor will certainly be useful, but you can always edit the text file.

One problem I ran into with an Adventure editor of my own is keeping puzzle pieces together - including comments.

Note that DMute and the JavaDM editor have problems with splitting squares into quadrants - just something to think about.

Here's a few suggestions...

- (Location-)hint window, which would show the hints shown in the location where the mouse pointer is. You know what I mean, a nice little window showing the hint titles.

- An option to show where there are pit gaps in the ceiling. Quite essential for designing diabolical dungeons .

-If someone uses varying offsets, a nice transparent map of the level below/above would be great. I actually remember someone suggesting this, but I'll suggest it again. This would make my previous suggestion quite obsolete.

- Make the editor modify CONFIG.TXT self, so the lazy user doesn't have to bother tweaking that him/herself.


Ok, that's a few. If I might inquire, how complete the editor already is? Or have you chosen to wait until v1.0?

Oh would it be possable to somehow use that cpb2bmp code and as part of the editor? I'd really like to take my cmp files I've made and use them as RTC portaits. perhaps add more suport to using DMute and said editor in the works.

Is there still an editor in development?

How come there are posts deleted from this thread ?
Posts from july to october 2002 are gone.

I don't think there ever were any!

There were posts pointing at using M$oft tools as THE way to make an editor.
My posts (gone) were to remind the obvious: tools will not do the job for you.
There are other tools around.

Too bad these posts are gone, what I'm saying would be more clear.

I am not a total anti-M$soft. Technical truth is my only concern.

Do you mean this thread?
http://pub50.ezboard.com/freturntochaos ... D=36.topic

I'm sure this topic has been dead until recently

Inded, I confused this thread with another one about the same subject.
Many apologies, no post have disappeared.

Try my editor for RTC at
<a href="http://dorian.brattha.com">dorian.brattha.com</a>

/Ola Lilja