I dont get this (DM2)

[Da Real Snark]

Why are there only Mods of DM1????
Man DM2:Legend of Skullkeep is like 100 times better!!
arent there any mods for dm2?

[sucinum]

maybe because the dm2 engine is much more complicated and cant be modified...dunno...

[beowuuf]

no one's bothered really, I don't think the mechanics are so far removed from DM, nor that much more complex.
Zyx is already tackling extracign the graphics, and I'm sure gambit mentioned somehting about the .dat format similarities (can't rememebr if this was speculation though..)

[Zyx]

The format of the dungeon.dat is exactly equal. Some unused codes in DM I are used for new elements or for second tile layout.
However I don't know if there's a huge community playing DMII.
Possibly, the DMEditor of Sphenx will eventually allow to modify DM2 dungeons. At least, it could be done with very little effort from the actual state of this editor.

[Gambit37]

DM2 wasn't as popular when it came out, which is why it's still not that well known, and why not that many people play it. It's a shame because It had some really neat ideas. I personally still prefer DM1 and CSB though - something about DM2 just didn't feel right.

The DAT format is still basically the same as Zyx said. But there's a whole bunch of other stuff in the engine itself that is way more complex. I don't think anyone has bothered making a clone of DM2 because nobody knows it well enough.

[Exilcise the Swede]

I mean come on how many of u guys did finnish DM2??
the things about dm 2 is that:
1. U can go out side.
2. there are thieves and vikings and human monsters.
3. there r merchants.
4. Money means somehting.
5. Ur not just in same boring old dungeon.
6. Its bigger and better puzzles.
7. Better graphics.
8. I think its like this that those who played Dm1 wasnt realy around playing those games when dm 2 came cuz its a big diffrence in years, and there were better types of games so why start a game like this when there r betters. and i dont think it got so much PR when it came out as the dm1.
All my friends played dm1, chaos strikes back, therons quest, dm 2. ya i played all this too but me and my friends around 7 that playes these games still think that Dm 2 is far the greatest of them all, But if u now can do mods can u like do one with and world out side and merchants and money and stuff if not maybe u can edit a game for me on the regulare dm2? <p><center><img src="http://www.oamweb.com/personal/hasjsnak ... center></p>

[beowuuf]

1. lol, you like the outside stuff, don't you : ) If i ever get my RTC dungeon finished (which would require it being started) i plan on having alot of outdoors travel around, but really outside is just another skin, apart from the rain/lightning there wasn't too much fun about outside (ok, and the swamp/hell trees, there were cool).
2./6./7. Sequel = better monsters, etc, so you'd expect that...i dunno, they weren't so much cooler that i rate DM 2 as a brlliant sequal/game in it's own right. DM2 could have been so much better, it wasn't, and i miss the feel of DM in DM2...nebulous though that is.
3./4. yup, nice that money meant something...but then it kinda turned into a different version of training....forget the plot, let's kill things for money for a while to get the big equipment...
5. The dungeon elements were quiter uninspiring actually! A few nice touches (like the reflector room at the end) but I can't think of any puzzles i really love in DM 2.
8. Personally i don'tthink i would have been too wowed with dm2, and given it a try if i hadn't loved DM...and i'd never known it was a popular game back then, it was always one of my own personal favourites

There is a DM 2 dungeon for DM, so with the new abilities to add graphics and even expand the object count of the dungeon, it might be possible to make it graphically similar...but DM isn't like half life, no one has cracked the code and created new versions of the game...the clones are new games in their own right, and the editors/dungeons are merely hacks of the dungeon/saved game
So for new abilities and thigns like proper utdoor conditions guess you'll have to check elsewhere, create very cunning dungeons in the clones (my plan) or start tryign to hack the DM/DM 2 code yourself!

[amaprotu]

About the only thing I miss from from DM2 are the merchants. I am working on a similar system (though not nearly as elegant) for RTC.

A couple of my own notes:
*) when DM came out it was state of the art. I believe it was the first real-time roleplaying game. DM2 when it came out was old technology, very old by computer standards. So much more was possible but wasn't done.

*) the puzzle were uninspired. Whereas DM took me days to complete the first time (more like weeks, but I was 10), DM2 took me about 3 hours.

*) the feel was not right in DM2. What really made DM great was the atmosphere. Wandering through a dark dungeon with monsters and a real fear of dying and <b> getting lost</b>. I never had that with DM2. I know I never got lost.

And, in conclusion, DM was a great game when it came out and it still is. DM2 was an old game when it came out, and it still is.

[Exilcise the Swede]

eh wtf r u talking about????
Old ?? eh when i play both i kinda know which is the new game and which is the old game, if there wouldnt be name like 1 and 2 i would know directly which dm 2 is cuz its improved in every way, graphics more stuff to do not just in a boring little dungeon, does anyone of u know a dm2 message board? probably not but i hope u could send me a link if u know one. <p><center><img src="http://www.oamweb.com/personal/hasjsnak ... center></p>

[beowuuf]

don't know of one, christophe tends to try and keep updated with links (site http://dmweb.zpc.cz).
You could try looking for DM2 specific works like 'skullkeep' or 'dargoth', and see if you chance some forum links
if so, tell us where they are! : )

sorry, i guess the regulars here, me included, just felt the dm engine was cleaner and simpler, and that dm2, for all it's nice touches, lost somehting in the engine
Most of the things like monsters, settigns are cosmetic and can be added to dungeons in various ways, but the interface and feel,...f i were offered the choice of designing a dungeon in RTC, or in a DM2 clone, i'd stick with RTC being closer to DM...personal choice.

wow, we are quite a vicious lot actually, two people say they prefer dm2 and it's like 'nooooooo'
it's all health spirited discussion anyway...

[amaprotu]

When DM was released, it was state of the art, brand new and really really cool. By the time DM2 was released full 3D rpg games were out with better graphics and better npc interaction. Thus, when DM was released it was new. When DM2 was released it was old.

However, the differences were asthetic mostly. It was the feel of the game that changed from DM to DM2. As such it is not suprising that people would have different views. Just because many people like DM better does not mean there aren't an equal number of people who like DM2 or that their opinion is any less valid.

Good luck in finding the group you seek.

[Gambit37]

It's interesting that DM2 came out in Japan first - in 1992. However, it didn't make it to the USA or Europe until 1994, well after Doom had single-handedly changed players perceptions of what made a good game (that's arguable of course - Doom may have been revolutionary but it was hardly clever, anyway....).

To quote Doug Bell of FTL: "By the time the game came out, the graphic look and technology was dated. This was too bad as I feel there were many advances in the game play that are mostly overlooked. But such is the nature of the game industry—you live and die by how well you exploit the technology, and DM II didn’t exploit it well enough."

[Exilcise the Swede]

bah this is just a pack of bs, seriusly man u talking about bad graphics i mean cmon dm2 is much better and more detailed then dm1/rtc/theronquest will ever be,
and ya i under stand that there were better looking games out then but u still stick up to dm1/rtc and its EVEN WORSE!!! And it isnt same feeling in dm1/rtc as in dm2 i miss that excitment, dm1 was to bad made to really get really in to it, and u may stick up to dm1/rtc cuz its not that much coding and its much easier then dm2 cuz there so much more stuff in dm2, like the thing u have ur money in and u can change, and the gaurds that doesnt attack untill u do, and theres so much to say, but il say it this way im 15 i started playing dm2 when i was like 8 years old cuz my friend had it, btw i live in sweden, and it were fun back then cuz it were diffrent from everyother game and not until like a year ago i started playing a version of dm 1 but it wasnt really that fun it were to bad made for my taste and now i downloaded the dm: java and i dont really like it either it reminds to much of dm1 and not dm2, and u barly dont lv i mean cmon im at the lv 4 and i killed everything and i heard it was like 13-17 levels and i have only gained one lv and guess what?? it was a damn Ninja lv on my fighter! arg man seriusly i want dm2 back, hey u maybe r talking about dm2 on amiga, atari, mac, sega im talking about the one on Pc,
well thats all from me, hope ur really talking about the none pc dm2s cuz i saw screen shots of them and they looked boring <p><center><img src="http://www.oamweb.com/personal/hasjsnak ... center></p>

[Gambit37]

Wow - slow down man - and learn to use some punctuation! Clearly you are in rant mode... come back when you've calmed down.

[Exilcise the Swede]

im back now and im calmned down but please answer what i just wrote before <p><center><img src="http://www.oamweb.com/personal/hasjsnak ... ><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub17.ezboard.com/uexilcisethesw ... N>Exilcise the Swede</A> at: 3/5/02 8:53:36 pm
</i>

[beowuuf]

here's better threads where people have said what they did like aswell as don't like about DM2, if you haven't seen them:
http://pub17.ezboard.com/fiansmessagebo ... D=21.topic
http://pub17.ezboard.com/fiansmessagebo ... ID=4.topic

I think you are lucky, playing DM2 first, as that is getting to discover quite alot of the fun of dm and getting all the cool extra features to boot. And i can see why going backwards from that to dm/csb is quite a let down. I think it depends which way you come from it...the poeple posting just now played the original when it came out, and DM 2 much later after, so you have the feeling of an original fresh game vs the feelings to a game that didn't stand out as much as would have been hoped.

As to the DM Java thing, you are right...that engine is just a little bit too unforgiving for me, I haven't gotten more than half way through it either, as I just get bored with some of the uphill fights and leave it for a few months!.


Personally when DM first came out, I thought it was amazing. The interface was simple, easy to use objects, interact with the dungeon, and you could get involved in rushing around in combat, or exploring.

Of course i wanted a sequal, and realising that CSB was only, in terms of the interface/surroundings, more of the same (i've began to like it as a game for gameplay/dungeon layout more than i did recently though) i was secretly always wishing for a proper sequal to come out.
And when dm 2 came out, it was good but...there were alot of niggling things that i didn't like, and it ruined alot of the good things in it. It's hard to immerse yourself in the game when the fresh new outer bits can be done so easily, and you end up in skullkeep before you know it. You can't explore as the minion count gets faster and higher. The interface itself...you can't multitask. In DM you can be running around fighting a creature, flinging spells while also trying to hunt around in chests for that one ful bomb or freeze life box that is the difference between life and death. In DM2 one thing stops all the others, so just slows it all down.

By that time i'd played alot of similar games to DM, so seen alot of things like the done so much better - the half step animations in lands of lore (that lurch in DM2 is annoying), or truely outdoors gameplay rather than walking around hedgerows, like in Ishar II (i forget if the game was really good, or if i was just so hungry for DM games...but you might want out look for it, it had the proper feeling of exploring an outdoor setting and changes in area, plus npc interaction...crap 2-D monsters though!).
I'd played enough DM like games by then to not be phased by the graphics either..they are nice, the animations are very cool, but some parts are quite cartoony, which put me off, and trying to work out whether a monster was on the right tile or not was annoying. I guess the more I played other games, the more I wished they were more DM like, and the more I was slobbering over the though of having all those elements being done better and wowing me in a dm2...ah well

Anyway, these are all why i don't like it, I'm not bashing DM2 altogether as I still play it (on PC..you might want to check out the amiga version, apparently the sounds are actually better!) and there are alot of cool features. Just I find it harder to get lost in the game, while I still can in a DMuted DM dungeon.

[Secret Journey]

Ishar 3 was great...damn I should play it again! I remember one distinctively fiendish puzzle in it.

DM2 was a letdown due to the lack of exploring to be done...the outside is quite small really...the inside of Skullkeep not too big. It relied more on dungeon layout than creatures.......and the minions (ridiculous they are!) seem to be an attempt at levelling that out. The atmosphere was nice in places....just the game's not big enough.

Side note: Lands of Lore..still have it on disk...only disk 8 wipes the installation completed so far, writes its install data.....disk 9 deletes the installation done by disk 8....installs its little part...and leaves me therefore totally unable to play as only disk 9's contents are installed! What happened to my disks?! (were ALWAYS write-protected...came that way) <p><p><font size=1><marquee>How's it feel when she's coming up roses, How's it feel when she's coming up sweet, How's it feel when it's all in spite of you, How's it feel when she's out of your reach?</marquee></font></p></p>

[gobleteer]

I really agree, being outside is one of the elements I am focusing in on my cloninsh sequel. The minions make it too easy, though, plus you have to start with Torham. The contant storming get sort of annoying as well...

[Strangely]

Just to add me 2 cents. I didn't like DM2 because it only took me 8 hours to complete and I had NO desire to do it again. It was just too simple after the slug-fest of DM1. It had a console feel to it. Just not serious enough. When I got to the end and exited the plane with the bad guy, I thought that was just the introduction. I was very disappointed when I realized it was over.

[PicturesInTheDark]

DM2 certainly had some nice ideas in it... money (wallets to store it instead of having put them in chests )... merchants... outside feeling.

But neither was the atmosphere reaching the dungeon levels of the original, nor was the realization of the abovementioned changes good enough to count as real improvements for the time FTL had to make them, so I felt slighted, to be honest.

In DM and CSB I was really jumping sometimes, which never happened once in DM2 - it was a boring slaughter-feast to get money. Not one puzzle I can properly remember. Sorry - but the claustrophobic feel I had in the dungeon was never halfway reached in the sequel.

Just my input, no offence, of course.

Regards, PitD

[ParuNexus]

like most people i grew up playinf DM first then dm2 later.

now then the money\merchant tihng was nice but as soon as you find thayt green crystal in the 2nd bat cave the game become so easy... even if there wasn't i still found it easy. I felt the monsters presented in CSB offered HUGE improvements over dm2. I guess mostly due to the how hard the monsters are.

Now i do love skullkeep and for cheatign and all god like cheepness I find it alot mroe fun the other games.

however i'm not sure when exactly this took place i heard of STONEkeep no relation at all. However this game I think would be a better replacement for DM2. alittle harder to setup then dm2(esp with windows) but wow it was alot more bolder then skullkeep ever was, slick better graphics, a more your in a dungeon and this not some picnic feeling to it of all the DM serries games I must say DM2 was the easiest, this stonekeep game was impressively much harder.

http://www.quandaryland.com/1996/stonekeep.htm

[andyboy_uk]

I loved stonekeep, Is there a windows version of the game, I have the original CD but I hear that it doesnt like XP very much.

[Jardice]

Ah another classic to try......better start looking aince i dout it's being sold anymore...

[Guest]

Hi,
in my opinion there is no reason to heat up on anything, because like almost all it is a matter of taste. In this special case I think it is also a matter of time.
When the first Dungeon Master came out it was a major advance in action based RPG, which had BIG impression on the people playing it at this TIME, me included. This game was the reason for me to start coding games.
It was impressive in graphics AND gameplay AND atmosphere.

The time that DM 2 came out the game was not state of the art, there were much better games, so the community being really impressed by this game is not so big as for DM1.

The main reason why I didn't play DM 2 very far has been mentioned above. The feeling about this game is wrong for anyone who has played DM1.

Here are some reasons why i didn't like the game:

• 1.) I really don't like merchants in an action based game. Isn't it quite better to "earn" the best items, like fighting for it or solving puzzles?
  
  2.)The dexterity thing. I remember intelligent pits trying to get me.. In DM1 one you had to use your brain and your sword. Finger dexterity was only needed during fights. You didn't have to try again and again, like in an Jump'n Run game.
  
  3.) The new spells like those "flying sattelite spells" were in my opinion unnecessary. It would've been better to improve the spell optics and if it was really necessary to add new spells, they should'nt have used spells, which do the fighting for me.

Maybe the reasons I mentioned are the ones for you to like the game. The thing you have to understand is that we (the people who like the oldies) have another view on the things, because it is more emotional, not related to simple statistics like graphics and sound.

I hope this makes it a bit clearer to you, so stick with DM2, which is absolutely OK, because the game seems to have everything you want from a game.

C-U

ToolMan

-->Peace is only a matter of tolerance and knowledge.<--[/list]

[SavageMind]

I never actaully ever got to DM2 to make it past the title screen before it crapped out on me. Have the cd and original Jewel case for it. I did hear it was rather good though. <sigh> I may never know.