What the???

[cowsmanaut]

What's going on.. I wake up to the info that the world trade center was destroyed by bombs and hijacked planes running into it.. car bombs across the city and and more planes hijacked and or bombed.. the pentagon being nearly demolished by a hijacked fighter plane and hijacked airlines landing just above us here in BC!!

The Americans appear to have no clue as to who is responsible and that worries me more. For if these acts are not being claimed they want to go unknown because it is not a statement.. it's a slaughter. If they wish to remain unknown it's because they want to kill off as many as possible before getting caught!

With Bush making open threats to them I'm sure that's helping the issue.. I mean give me a break, feel bad for the loss of so many lives not plan your next killing spree. Granted however that such an action can not expect to go unanswered. That is such a large loss of life that it really is an act of war. I just hope that it ends soon and that no more killing comes to pass..

so many lives.. so many parents who won't go home tonight. So many brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters who have been lost.. Never a good enough reason.

[beowuuf]

How are things there with you in BC?
I talked to my girlfriend in Kingston, Ontario and she said there were even bomb threats for Ottowa and Toronto.


Even when this is over, there is an unfortunate message here...terrorism as a weapon of war does work. It's nice to know that in 100 years we can evolve from the pointless slaughter of soldier vs soldier to circumventing this and wiping out civilians to prove a political point

[Gambit37]

Saw this unfold on the BBC news website today, and have spent most of the evening watching it on the news. I still can't believe it. Words cannot describe the horror that I've seen unfold over the last few hours. It's all I can say.

So much for civilised modern society.

[cowsmanaut]

Well, I think that for the most part we are fine for now. Those bomb threats are likley hoaxes from sick individuals. As you can see from the news, there were no indications, threats, or otherwise prior to the attacks in the states.

However here in BC, the one thing making me a bit paranoid is that all flights have been diverted here. This may make any of these flights that may be harbouring and of the terrorists to panic and cause problems. They think that many of the groups have been comming in from canada since it is much easier to immigrate here. One bleeding heart hears a sob story and their in.. more so if comming from a war torn country. This makes it perfect for them since they are candidates.

Canada however, unlike the states doesn't have their noses in everyones bussiness. We do mostly peace keeping and the like where as the US goes in and bombs the freak out of everything.. though at the very least I'm fairly certain they are military targets and not buildings filled with innocents.

One thing to think about though, is that in each plane and with each set of bombs only a handfull of people would have been responsible for each. Yet the death toll is ranging in the high thousands.. what is it now over 30,000 people? 0ver 40? 50? all from a few people willing to die for some 'cause' .. sick.

[Zyx]

It's very hard to believe this creepy horror...
French people are shocked,surprised, and terrified.
Argentinan people are horrified, but not surprised, though...
My dad is in NY and was about to visit the world trade center, but finally he changed his mind one hour before the crash...
I just hope the USA won't overreact by some pointless war.

[cowsmanaut]

I'm sure he's glad he changed his mind eh?

I have no idea how this will turn out. I mean it does have the severity to turn into a large war and if it's big enough the allies will be brought in and we could verge on a new world war. If that happens.. well.. we're all screwed..

[beowuuf]

Yeah, especially since the NATO pact has been dusted off, so any action is going to pull all relevant countries into it. I think the good point is that with only one exception every non-NATO country has at least had the leaders expressing condemnation and support, so this doesn't look as bleak as it could be. It's the resentment a generation later from actions that I think could be the problem... after the initial shock it's becoming more concern for the aftermath in New York (and Washington) than any further tragedies. I hope, anyway.

[cowsmanaut]

it would seem with all that's going on there has been some other acts taking place.. as yet unconfirmed, but none the less a concern.

The empire state building and one other.. Penn Station have been targeted by bomb threats and the like. This being two other landmarks of newyourk they are taking them seriously as that seems to be the MO of these people.

anyway, if it's a small group there is no real need for concern, however if it's someone with a big backing group then it's gonna be bad. However with canada, USA, and the UK so far agreeing to take action if called upon.. they are gonna have to be a pretty big force or get squashed. The thing is though .. had it just been the pentagon I think it would be treated differently. I think that the largest part of it was the destruction of the trade center.. Two main reasons for this is:

1. Ecenomicly it's dammaged a lot of countries trading abilities.
2. It was filled with non military, essentially innocent people.

I certainly hope the catch whoever and lock them up for life.. I'm not a big fan of death

[Zyx]

I'd like to share some of my friend's points of view.
They're argentinan. You must know that most of dictatures and economic crisis in south america
are with the partnership of the USA, so don't be surprised if they have no admiration for the USA.
I mean no insult to nobody, though...
I hope you're interested in these opinions, as I discovered that we can never understand our own country by its own paradigm... I hope my traduction won't be too much an obstacle to the understanding.
Words in [] are mine.
-------------
In the morning of the 11 of September, in front of the television set or with radio thousands
of people couldnt avoid the tears, others either a smile. A technological earthquake or tornado
devised by minds of an amazing creativity. You could have been there, or I, of visit, so much
innocent people dying, a catastrophe, but this time it was not work of the nature, but of the man.
It seemed that, after centuries of perseverance the man is surpassing the forces and the
power of the cosmos (or this is what he tries, or what he believes).

It would almost be possible to be said: God is surpassed, if even almost human beings can be
created. No.
At dusk of that 11 of September things like these are heard:
Madelaine Allbright was interviewed a long time ago and while it was spoken of the brutality of
the terrorism, it was asked to her about the blockade of Iraq that was bringing consequences
like the death of 50,000 CHILDREN. "justified in this case", it was the answer.
I saw photos of destroyed Iraq, of thousand of civilians burnt. But that was not showed
by CNN: Only a rich jerk full of petrol. I do not know the numbers but they died around
100000 irakíes in the Gulf War.
Right the 11 of September, in Chile the judgment against Kisinger was about to be
the subject of the day, for his part in the murder of the ex-president Salvador Allende
We all know that the irruption of the dictatorships in Latin America has had a great impulse
of the "partner" [the USA] which is over there in the north.
It would seem that in name of the western God the death is totally just, but that in the name
of the Eastern God, there's no pardon.
And meanwhile, the "representants of god", be them of torn eyes or white skin, they will decide the
life and the death of million poor devils ,who we are, simple mortals destitutes of any power in
this Democratic and Free western world.
by Maria.
-----------------
...we got back home by the high street, that connects the center to the campus and our district,
and saw a full truck of American flags blocking the streets and the citizens were blowing horns
and shouting patriotic slogans.
"it is an attack to the freedom" said bush by the massmedias and the American people are very
satisfied with that. I wouldn't like to be Palestinian or from other country of that part of
the mediterranean sea at this moment the Americans are blind and understand this conflict
as a classic conflict of 20th century, they interpreted this like a war.
I ask myself: was there another place on the Earth where there were concentrated greater wealth
by square meter than in the towers that yamasaky and emery roth & bros. constructed in years 70?
which places in the world have the reputation of invulnerability of the Pentagone of Washington?
Do these giants of the power really represent freedom or do they dominate the world in the name
of freedom? we do not have other choice than to support that imposed freedom, where freely
we chose to call the blacks "african american", because they already weared out the name of
the poor men in insults and intolerancia.
also I wonder who can adhere to the causes that took inexplicable inmolacion of those who
attacked, is absolutely incomprehensible in the plane of the reason
I see the possibility of understanding the complex reality as very remote.
I feel that the world has kicked 100 years more the dream of "The 20th century's Peace".
By Pedro
---------------
Dear Pedro and other friends,
I believe that the closing of your mail - "I feel that the world has kicked 100 years over
the dream of the Peace of 20th century" - is terribly certain. I even dare to say that in fact
it has forced us to see how far was this dream all along, considering the thin attempts of the
men in the world who really could do something for the freedom, the equality, and the
brotherhood between the men.
At the same time, if the world seems more dangerous also it is because they smashed the heavy
giant [the USA] but above all, he is now going to crush, and that is going to make us all shake,
but in terms of vulnerability I was but near dying in the AMIA [the Mutual Association
of Israeli of Argentina, bombed in 1994] that in the twin towers,
and in essence they were equal monstruosities.
Beware about being confused: the attacks with special effects are no more real
than the plannified deaths of humans whose end never was nor will be mediatized.
The world continues being more or less equal of dangerous. What has changed
(for the most of us to whom nothing of the sort ever happens) it is the perception that
a terrible death is waiting for us around the corner.
By Diego

[Zyx]

AOn the Bombings,
Noam Chomsky
The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale
they may not reach the level of many others, for
example, Clinton's bombing of the Sudan with no
credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical
supplies and killing unknown numbers of people (no one
knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and
no one cares to pursue it).
Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily come to
mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in
doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were working
people: janitors, secretaries, firemen, etc. It is
likely to prove to be a crushing blow to Palestinians
and other poor and oppressed people.
It is also likely to lead to harsh security controls,
with many possible ramifications for undermining civil
liberties and internal freedom. The events reveal,
dramatically, the foolishness of the project of
"missile defense." As has been obvious all along, and
pointed out repeatedly by strategic analysts, if
anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US,
including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly
unlikely to launch a missile attack, thus
guaranteeing their immediate destruction.
There are innumerable easier ways that are basically
unstoppable. But today's events will, very likely, be
exploited to increase the pressure to develop these
systems and put them into place.
"Defense" is a thin cover for plans for militarization
of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest
arguments will carry some weight among a frightened
public. In short, the crime is a gift to the hard
jingoist right, those who hope to use force to control
their domains.
That is even putting aside the likely US actions, and
what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like
this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more
ominous than they appeared to be before the latest
atrocities. As to how to react, we have a choice.
We can express justified horror; we can seek to
understand what may have led to the crimes, which
means making an effort to enter the minds of the
likely perpetrators. If we choose the latter course,
we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the
words of Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and
insight into affairs of the region is unmatched after
many years of distinguished reporting.
Describing "The wickedness and awesome cruelty of a
crushed and humiliated people," he writes that "this
is not the war of democracy versus terror that the
world will be asked to believe in the coming days. It
is also about American missiles smashing into
Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles
into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells
crashing into a village called Qana and about a
Lebanese militia - paid and uniformed by America's
Israeli ally - hacking and raping and murdering their
way through refugee camps." And much more.
Again, we have a choice: we may try to understand, or
refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that
much worse lies ahead.
Noam Chomsky