Dungeon Master Forum

Did you know that Vexirks are 'flying' creatures, like Chaos etc etc? I discovered this when I couldn't get them to trigger pressure pads and them found them floating on some pits. You wouldn't see this in the standard dungeon.

I am sure all you 'experts' will now write in and tell me how they already knew this... but it is not mentioned in the creature list.

Lol, yes, after banging my head against a wlall with a puzzle in a dungeon

And I don't think this is widely know, so don't worry, its good you posted this

Another interesting fact is that lord order can teleport farther than chaos - so if you ever use him make sure you have thick walls aroudn the area he is in!

Wow cool, I never knew this ! :)

Hi, PaulH.
Be sure I already knew this. Hahaha!

I was waiting for that...

I'm a great expert too, yet...
I saw this only recently in a clone, but it didn't strike me at all!
They can teleport themselves, so why not fleet? Is it possible that the creatures were changed in the clones?

Actually they themselves can't teleport. The Vexirk that seems to be able to teleport owes this ability to dungeon properties of the part of Neta.

Are you sure? I have seen Vexirks in DM, not just CSB teleport.

Vexirks do not teleport unless affected by invisible dungeon teleporters as Lunever pointed out. There are no teleporting vexirks in DM.

...just one space at time...

OK, they appear to teleport, cos if they move one space left or right whilst stood in front of you you can no longer see their graphic. Then they move next to you (left or right) and they move damn quick sometimes, so it appears if they got next to you just by magic! Clever little creatures, aren't they? Wonder where they learned to fly, or are all the pits just invisible?

Speaking of Vexirks, Christophe, you might want to update the Vexirk section in the creature list with their special ability to float, and they cast Des Ew spells as well.

Huh? I don't think they cast DesEw. No monster casts DesEw, that would be utterly useless. You probably mean they cast Zo.

At the risk of sounding like a complete tit, I agree with Christopher, they cast Des Ew.

Lord Chaos and Vexirks both cast Des Ew. I know this because Lord Chaos has killed the Fire Elemental monsters before. Vexirks have cast Zo looking spell (Des Ew) through open and closed gates. Zo spell will go off/explode/whatever when they reach a door. Doesn't matter if the door is open or closed, and it doesn't matter if Zo will open or close the door (push button door or not), therefore, if this makes sense to anybody, Vexirks cast both Zo and Des Ew spells.
Iagree about the uselessness of casting this spell, but since Lord Chaos and Vexirk spells are random for each cast, it might show that they have a better knowledge of spells (they know more spells) making them more realistic but less intelligent (why cast Des Ew at the champions?). This seemed to be fixed for DM2 because neither Dragoth or Vexirks ever cast Des Ew.
Again, I hope this makes sense to someone.

You say Chaos has killed fire elementals before, I've never seen him cast a Des Ew, but I do know that elementals can be killed with fireballs (although it is almost impossible).

Fire elementals are healed by fireball.

And from CSBWin :
if ( (mtD7 == mon_Vexirk) || (mtD7 == mon_LordChaos) )
if (STRandomBool() != 0)
objD7 = RNFireball;
else
switch (STRandom0_3())
case 0: objD7 = RNDispellMissile; break;
case 1: objD7 = RNLightning; break;
case 2: objD7 = RNPoisonCloud; break;
case 3: objD7 = RNZoSpell; break;

So Vexirks and Lord Chaos cast both Zo and Des Ew, at least in the Atari ST version.

Groovy!

You should be a little bit careful here. CSBwin was
translated from the Atari Chaos Strikes Back game.
It may not be exactly the same as the Atari Dungeon
Master game.

vexirks are the same (next to the different graphics) as beholders, arent they?
i think, this monstertype has a second skin, because of the way DM deals with monster colors. beholders need to stay golden because they appear on the same level with scorpions, and vexirks are brown because they are on the rat-level.

@ Paul Stevens :

What are the differences between CSB for ST and CSBwin ?

For years I've been wondering about the DM/CSB mechanisms. As you said you've "compiled" the ST machine language to PC C++, I assumed the game mechanisms were the same.

I started to write the "rules" of CSBwin. This is because I am part of those who like to know 'how it works'. So I'd like to know how close of the original game I am.

The original CSBwin was very much identical to the
Atari CSB game. I fixed a couple of rather minor bugs
but otherwise it was and extremely accurate translation.

Since then I have expanded the databases and added
the DSA. So if you want to see (and play with) a game
that is like the original, you should go back to an older
version. If you like, I can provide any old version complete
with the symbolics.

Go through the CSBwin forum and read the release
announcements and pick a version that you want.

PAul

> So if you want to see a game
> that is like the original, you should go back to an older
> version. If you like, I can provide any old version complete
> with the symbolics.

Don't konw what symbolics are, but I am interested!
Could you send it to
bfanchon@math.jussieu.fr
please ?

On the other hand, I've put to light some points that look like bug. Some are clearly copied from the original, some may be "your mistake". I probably should post a report to you. One of them needs a "request for enhancement", as it (as far as I know) makes AntiFire and AntiMagic totally useless.

But I forgot an important point : Thanks you a lot for the work you did !!

Go to :

bahamas.globat.com/~dianneandpaul.net

Follow the CSBwin link. You will find:

CSBsrc93 and CSBexe93. These are the source and
executable, respectively of version 9.3 -- Just prior to my
adding the code to expand the databases. They are
very faithful to the original except for such trappings
as variable screen size, recording, and such that have
no effect on gameplay.

PAul

I wouldn't say that Vexirks and Beholders are the same. A Vexirk can cast more spells and you can view their side and back. You can only see the front side of a Beholder. Plus a Vexirk makes a sound when it moves.