Dungeon Master Forum

I was trying to clone a trigger so that I could have different icon images for different types of triggers (I'm using them to create ambient sounds in my sample dungeon and want a sound icon displayed)

Although I can clone it OK, the new trigger does not behave as a trigger -- it is just a static item with only VISIBLE and INVISIBLE parameters available.

Is this a bug or as designed?

How could I create the trigger icons I desire without having to place an extra item for every trigger I want to act as a sound effect?

It's working as designed (but you can easily argue the design is wrong).

I've always envisaged that there's no point, and therefore you can't, clone a trigger. It has no graphics and no intrinsic properties. Of course, now that the editor exists, it does have an intrisic property; it's icon, and therefore it should be aloowed to be cloned.

So does that mean you'll allow it be cloned in the next version?

Ooooh - I didn't say that ;-)

Changing it would require a change to the RTC dungeon format so I'm reluctant to do it (and so break backwards compatibility) unless there are some other changes to do.

Technically it's trivial though, so would be very straightforward to implement so will do so whenever the RTC format next *has* to change..

Hmmm... I don't understand why backwards compatibility is a concern at this stage. I would have thought that should only be an issue once you've got to 1.0 and above?

Does some kind of general agreement exist these days about the usage of clones? Paul Stevens made huge efforts to get rid of them via CSBuild, but they seem to be very popular still. Are they necessary to create certain solutions/puzzles or simply more comfortable in the end?

Regards, PitD

Same word, completely different meaning : )

In DM it means to place an existing object in several locations at once, useful, but buggy - able through a) hex editing, and DM's use of linked lists. Obviously if CSB4win can do expanded things naturally and easily, there is no need to twist the engine in obnoxious ways, fun thoguh it is

In RTC it is a function, and the way you create new objects in the engine - you pick on an item, and using the clone command copy it as a new item. you then modify the item to create a new feeling one
it's easier on the engine than requiring contorl of several variables

For example, creating a monster could be a process of defining speed, attack, graphical, defense parameters and AI functions explicitly with many variables and parameters that would be intense for both george to code and user to use and also then need to have a method to integrate it to dungeons
and compile it and make sure soemthign hadn't been defined stupidly
Or, you create a new monster based on a giggler, and change its appearance, attacks etc with a simple line - george went for option two : )

Hmm. I did not express myself clearly then, know about the cloning method in RTC, of course. So no "clones" in the sense of the word used for CSBwin/DM classic exist in RTC, therefore no harm can be caused that way if I understand correctly. Question answered, thanks.

Regards, PitD

lol, i thought it was an odd misunderstanding...

Certainly. Got a little confused after "reading up" the missed posts from last week and thinking about all the new/dug out suggestions for RTC.

Regards, PitD

see, the complier won't let you clone, but if someone hacks the .rtc file, you could insert some real cloned objects...bwhahahahahaha!

umm..there would be no reason..ummm...*rustle*

Where did this make like a tree stuff come from already? *shuffle*

i dunno, something that occured to me as i was leafing

Fixed for v0.29