doom 3 - someone needs to learn effective design

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:46 pm

well, I went out and purchased it.. not bad.. it's very pretty.. in a gory hell spawned kind of way.

They depend heavily on sound to keep you off balance.. people screaming and dieing over your radio.. and people behind walls panicing. really it's a crutch most of the time and I debate taking the headphones off since it seems like most radio info is useless screaming with the occasional tidbit. Makes it hard to note some monsters ahead of you.. also you hear the sounds of someone breathing or moaning and it's right next to you.. but no one is there..

My first thing to do when I started needing to play seriously (ie when the shit hit the fan and monsters were everywhere) was to change the hideous keyboard layout. At first look you think.. ok that's fine I know where every thing is.. however, lights go out at a moments notice and you need to flip from flashlight to gun.. (seems our hero can't use the light and shoot.. nor chew gum and walk either) so you have one hand on the mouse and one hand on the movement and the flash light is at the other bloody end of the keyboard..

also so is the crouch.. so you can't look move and crouch efficiently at the same time.. so.. I moved them both close to the movement keys so I can hit them faster.

The next thing is.. don't bother trying to figure out were many of the monsters are.. they use the (in my oppinion) cheap ass tactics of having panels that they blast away and the monster comes out of nowhere or.. it spawns in behind you yet obviously it couldn't have been there.

This is as far as I've gotten with regards to the playing tactics of the game. Otherwise there is a good atomosphere.. it looks lived in and the scripting and animation seems to work well to tell the story and keep you interested. It's unfortunate they felt they had to break down and get to this level in order to try and keep you on your toes. Spend a little more time on the AI and less time taking away our ability to use our brains. I try to find and outsmart everything.. they think of this and bam.. throw a wall in my face. no no you can't do that. you're gonna look for the monster.. HA we're gonna transport him behind you MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!

grrrr.

Oh well.. I'll keep playing.. and undoubtedly come across somethings that will be cool.. but as it stands.. it's not as good as it could have been with regards to game play.

anyone else played this? anyone like this tactic? sure it spooks you.. but couldn't they do it differently? shouldn't I be able to use my head and be rewarded for it? hmmm

moo

Post by **linflas** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:25 am

i've just tried it during this afternoon.. in the beginning, ambiance reminds me HL a lot..
so i wasn't very impressed, i already knew this kind of slow immersion..
later, i've entered the first restrooms, looked myself in the mirror and...

DAMN THIS GAME JUST ROXXXXXXXX !!!!

Post by **Gambit37** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:29 am

Didn't even realise it was out yet! Will buy when I have earnt a bit more cash!

Post by **linflas** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:21 am

just picked up the plasma gun !! woohooooooo !!

Jardice · Post by **Jardice** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:57 am

heh...now to wait for half-life 2.

Hmm I want to buy this but I don't want to pay $50 for it unless it's a really long/hard game.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:38 am

plasma gun?? you must be playing non stop

I've been taking it in 2 hour doses.

well Jardice.. it's certainly got it's tough spots.. it's quite immersive and has lots of story elements that require listening to audio recordings and reading information collecting items and such.. different objectives.. plenty to do.. just be sure if you live with someone that they know you are playing the game and not to just wander up behind you. oh.. and go to the bathroom before you play

moo

Post by **linflas** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:52 am

cowsmanaut wrote:oh.. and go to the bathroom before you play

definitely !

i've been playing from 6pm to 3am...

*addicted*

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:41 pm

huh, i didn''t think it was in stock until wedneasday/thursday, and then properly released at the weekend...

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:39 pm

i LOVED doom 2 and will have a look at this. in fact, it's the first game i will buy and play since diablo 2. ich hope it's as hard as it's prequel, which is one of the hardest games ever, but still motivating, scary and enjoyable.
let's see what my 2400 xp+ with 512 mb and a radeon 9600 means about that. something like 30 fps at 800*600/no details i fear...

Jardice · Post by **Jardice** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:11 am

@Cow: I keep that in mind.

Maybe I can a demo to try first before I buy it though..I heard that it was getting some bad rap from people.

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:31 pm

Huuuum.... average 92 fps on my machine in 1024*768 (all on high detail) sweeeeeeet... but quite frankly, this isn't giving me the sense of thrill or adrenaline that unreal tournament gave me... or the 1st Unreal, for that matters...

Jardice · Post by **Jardice** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 5:41 am

I just read the system requirements and,even though I meet them, I just need to say "what the freaking crap?!".

I really cannot see why a game whould need that high of a system spec..it's telling me that no optimization was done to the game to make sure that it was compatible on slower computers.

I mean why 1.5 mhz as a minimum requirement?

purple1 · Post by **purple1** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:45 am

Well, in today's world, a standard desktop computer runs 1 ghz minimum. (That's what you mean)
Unless you haven't bought a new computer in the last 3 years, yeah, you're screwed. But I would assume most people buy new computers regularly to keep up with new programs.

Jardice · Post by **Jardice** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:58 am

true but that doesn't mean software just took a big leap like that otherwise the graphics in a game should look like real life by now.

either that of it's harder than it looks.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:38 am

to be honest it's doing a lot more than older games did. You are looking at around 5000 triangles per character with Specular maps, normal maps, and detailed textures as well as smoothe weighted vertex animation and complex AI.. lot's of sound files around all over as well as interesting effects .. it's a lot happening in the game. Much more than those that ran on older computers.

Also, you should keep in mind that the specs they have now and the specs they told us almost a year ago has shown that they have *REALLY* optimised the engine a lot from back then.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:06 am

plus let's faced it it's likely to be running ontop of Windows XP - I'm sure that must factor in somewhere

and personally i don't buy new computers all the time to keep up with programme - FIGHT TO THE BITTER END!

at work its a different story, it's a fight to get the damn thing upgraded. One of the main used computers (downlaoidng e-mails, etc) was...*drum roll* a pentium 100 with 64Mb of RAM on Win98
It was running IE/Outlook Express 6 all the time ok (but that seemed to knock it slightly to do anything else, luckily office was only '97) but finally keeled over when Norton IS 2004 was added to the mix.

Jardice · Post by **Jardice** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:26 pm

cowsmanaut wrote:to be honest it's doing a lot more than older games did. You are looking at around 5000 triangles per character with Specular maps, normal maps, and detailed textures as well as smoothe weighted vertex animation and complex AI.. lot's of sound files around all over as well as interesting effects .. it's a lot happening in the game. Much more than those that ran on older computers.

hmm sounds like something that the companies said they put in their older games a while back...and some still turned out in a way the same as the older games before them.

To tell the truth I don't see what's so useful about 5000 triangles used for other than smooth movement..I mean are the enemies going to die in dozens of different ways...and the AI, does that mean I'll be able to finally use some brainwork in the game and trick enemies into traps? can I get them to die from their own shots? Can some of the average monsters be killed by any average thing that kills the player(like falling off too high, stepping in spikes, melting in acid(unless they're immune),etc.

I'll take your word for it and try out a demo..maybe it'll be worth the specs..who knows.

purple1 · Post by **purple1** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:41 pm

[quote="beowuuf"]plus let's faced it it's likely to be running ontop of Windows XP - I'm sure that must factor in somewhere.[/quote]

Ouch! Hurtful to Windows fanatics, but very true. Pentiums may be running at 4 ghz today, but how many of them can actually take advantage of that with Windows destroying their performance?

5000 triangles mean more realistic-looking models and smoother models. Compare modern stuff to FF7, where characters in gameplay had little cubes as hands, with no fingers.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:16 pm

RAM more than anything seems to get devoured

A work collegue bought MS Flight simulator, and it was unplayable, even thought his specs were good - cause he was running Win XP on his spanky laptop. Shove in 512Mb extra RAM, and suddenly it played like a dream!

Jardice · Post by **Jardice** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:30 pm

Hmm......looking at that it seems to make more sense now on why the specs have to be so high...man I miss DOS..it never did this like this.

now to just get something that can clean out my ram after each use...to think that 780 something Ram isn't enough.

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:34 am

780 ram is plenty it only asks for :

3D hardware card with at least 64 megs on it (recomended Geforce 3 or higher or ATI Radeon 8500 or higher)
windows XP/2K
Pentium 4 1.5 ghrz or athlon 1500+
384 megs of ram
8x speend CDrom
2.2gb Diskspace on your hard drive
DX 9.0b
16 bit soundcard
and a mouse

purple1 · Post by **purple1** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:39 am

Wow. It runs in 2K. That must be a first for video games everywhere. (Windows 2000 SUXXXX!)

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:48 am

>>can I get them to die from their own shots?

even doom 1 had that feature...

i think, compared to other shooters, d3 is really optimized and not too hardware-hungry. 1,5 ghz is nothing, you can get that for 300-400 € or $ (whole pc without OS and monitor). when quake 3 was released, noone was able to play it* without crippling the graphics, so thats a great difference. i am not a shooter-fan, mainly because the shooter-world was flawed by lousy crap like quake 3, unreal + sequels and all those miserable tactical shooters like counterstrike, but doom is legend...

*that even happened in dos-times, think of syndicate wars, one of the best strategy games ever and THE hardest.
ps: every games runs under w2k. pebcak.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:29 am

Win2000 rules! Ok, the trying to play any games under it was true when it first came out I believe...

FallenSeraphin · Post by **FallenSeraphin** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:25 pm

Win2k was never intended as a gaming platform, so is normal that it never has the same speed as Win98se or WinXP... But you do have some tricks you can use to even the odds

progs like cacheman or sysmech...

Post by **cowsmanaut** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:13 pm

Win2k was pretty crummy untill servicepack 2 came out. but Dude.. that was *Years* ago.. Windows 2K has no issues really at all.. infact it's better than XP in several aspects. XP is very resource hungry compared to 2K unless you turn off the thousands of graphical and auitory effects they have turned on. XP it self had several probs untill it's service pack1 came out.

As it stands with servicepack 6 of win 2k it's one of microsofts most stable and streamlined OS at the moment. I'm on XP now only because my work is on XP.. but I've never had issues with Win2k

moo

Post by **Gambit37** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:38 pm

Going back to Doom3, I acquired an 'evaluation' version of it which I thought I'd test out on my machine before I stumped up the cash for it, as although my machine is over 2 years old, I didn't think it would cope. (Athlon XP1800, Geforce 4600 Ti, 512 Mb RAM)

Well, I can play it at 640x480 OK, though there is some slow down when things start happening and in firefights. It's certainly playable though.

I have found it to be *incredibly* atmospheric so far. Been playing on headphones with the lights off and the sound right up, and boy it's *scary*. First game that's put a real fear into me for years. I appreciate that the design is quite predicatable and cheap (regarding monster spawning and such), but you can forgive that with the amazing spooky atmosphere. I haven't got far at all yet, but notable experiences in the first hour or so:

* The race across the martian surface to the other airlock -- the wind was so loud I really felt like I was in the middle of a raging storm
* When all Hell broke loose and everything went dark and I started to get battered by zombie guy in the pitch black. Predictable yes, but scary nevertheless.
* The gorgeous lighting effects

Not the kind of game to put a lot of brain power into, but it looks like it might be fun.

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:06 pm

>>XP is very resource hungry compared to 2K

that's the point for 2k. it has no real disadvantage compared to xp, so if you can handle it, an ok choice. SP 2 is obligatory, of course.

>>First game that's put a real fear into me for years

1st since doom 2?

doom is something special imho, but i might be biased.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:56 pm

huh, my friend just finished it after playing for less than a week, and doens't sound that impressed...
maybe I shall save my pennies and wait for half life 2 then...

sucinum · Post by **sucinum** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:57 pm

aaargh, the evil word *collects stones*