Dungeon Master Forum

If I have an alcove, into which you are supposed to put an object to activate something, you need to put the object into the alcove, AND take it off for the activation to happen.

Like, in the Riddle Room in DM you now need to place the correct object and then take it off to hear the clicking sound. Same thing a few levels later with the "lighter than feather"-puzzle. I know from experience that this is not intended behaviour

Look -> here <- for a simple example dungeon, if you don't want to go through the trouble of debugging DM or CSB dungeons. Just enter the teleporter, take the torch and the bread. The bread is supposed to be placed in the alcove to open the portcullis right next to it. (In this dungeon the alcove toggles the door, but same problem occurs with (de-)activation).

However, the same puzzle with 'constant weight' checked works out just the way it's supposed to.

'Constant Weight' is what you *need* for this to work. Activations are one shot deals. I'm pretty sure this is working as intended, maybe you are misinterpreting what's going on?

Remember the riddle room. Is it or is it not supposed to work like this:

1. You put the required object in the alcove. Nothing happens.
2. You take the required object from the alcove. You hear clicking.
3. You need to do steps 1 and 2 for every alcove if you want the door open and iron key revealed.

However, I could be wrong, and in that case 'constant weights' have been, for some reason, put off from the DM-dungeon accompanied with RTC. (And in that case it still constitutes as a bug, just a bit different than I thought )

Hmmm... I'll have to check. Fairly sure (in PC DM) the items click as soon as you put them in and you have to leave them in there for it to work.

no, with the riddle room you just put the items in, and the door opens, then the iron key is revealed
you can take out the objects or leave them at any time

Just checked the original dungeon and the alcoves click as soon as you place an item in there AND when you remove it.

I tried looking at the dungeon with DMute but for some reason all dungeons are now crashing in that editor (?). So I looked using CSBuild and indeed the triggers are 'constant weight'. In fact, CSBuild reports them differently as it doesn't use the concept of 'constant weight' but in fact 'set' and 'clear' actions depending on if the item is present or not. It's the same outcome though.

It should work like this:

1. You put the required object in the alcove and hear a click. (The engine sends a 'clear' message to 2 counters -- one starts at 4, the other 3 -- the 'clear' message subtracts one from the counter )
2. Repeat for three and then four items -- the gate opens after three, the alcove after four.
3. If you should remove an item before either counter's target is matched, then a 'set' message is sent and the counter increases by one again.

Your puzzle is working correctly in RTC when you select 'constant weight' -- I'm not quite sure about your initial problem though -- you need some input from George on that I think.

It's an interesting point about 'constant weight' though; I'd actually prefer this to work the same way as in CSBuild so that you can have two distinct messages -- it would clear up the logic of the operation. George?

My problem is with the Dungeon Master -module. It has worked OK in the past, but now solving the Riddle Room requires taking the item back before hearing the clicks. My dungeon is only made to demonstrate it quicker than playing DM all the way down to the Riddle Room to witness the bug.

It definitely sounds like something has changed in RTC then -- unless of course it always was wrong. You didn't provide a link, can you update that so I can take a look?

Oops, of course I forgot to give the link. Now it's there, check the first post.

I think I and others would have reported this a couple of years ago if it was buggy back then. I played through v0.28 a month ago and didn't notice anything bugful, so it's a fairly new bug.

What version are you using? I downloaded and tried opening in the 0.30 editor, but it simply bombs out.

What?! I'm using v0.30; Are you saying it crashes?

EDIT: I downloaded the file just to be sure, but it works for me.

I fixed it -- oddly, Firefox saved the text file with incorrect line breaks -- I opened it in Wordpad and resaved and it was OK.

Just looked at it and something weird is definitely going -- I think it's to do with the toggle action. If you set it to 'constant weight' the toggle works first time, but not when you then remove the bread from the alcove. I seem to recall George saying that 'constant weight' triggers do the opposite when the weight is removed; if that's true, then somethings broken. I'd send the dungeon to him for analysis...

The bug is also present if try to deactivate the door without constant weight. I hadn't even tried toggling with constant weight, but yes, that seems to be buggy as well.

aaaaaaargh ! i've just tested some puzzle in sukumvit made with alcoves (no constant weight) -> toggle -> counter -> deactivate -> door : it doesn't work anymore in 0.30 but it was ok in 0.28 !!!

OK, so that's a confirmed bug then!

I'm confused here! Could someone send me a one room dungeon with a handful of objects in it (a trigger, an object to trigger it and, say, a door that gets triggered) that clearly shows what the problem is? If something has gone wrong, then I'll fix it for V0.31

Incidently, to confirm Gambits suggestion earlier in the thread, constant weight triggers are indeed meant to send out two signals:

- When the constant weight object is put on the trigger it sends out the action specified.

- When the constant weight object is removed from the trigger it sends out the opposite action specified.

For example a constant weight trigger with an ACTION=(ACTIVATE) will send out an ACTIVATE when the item is added to the trigger tile, and a DEACTIVATE when removed. If a constant weight trigger has an ACTION=(TOGGLE) then it will send out a TOGGLE on both adding and removing the item

here's a modified DM dungeon that leads you directly to the Riddle room : if you put the objects in the right alcoves the door doesn't open.
http://redribbon.planet-d.net/dm/riddle.zip

Check your mail also, I sent you a small dungeon as an example of the activation bug and the toggling bug.

Many thanks for the files - this is now fixed for V0.31