Dungeon Master Forum

Hello,

I've made a few tests with RTC Editor and as a result I would like to ask if a features listed below could be implemented in the future versions.
I wanted to build my own dungeon and I consider to use this editor. Problem is, that I can't materialise some ideas I keep in my mind because of editor limits.

So, here are my questions:

1. Will be implemented a trigger to enable/disable save option?
For example, we place a certain item into alcove and the option is enabled. After saving the option is disabled. It would be a kind of paying for every savegame.

2. I'd like to customize an equipment of starting characters.

3. I'd like to select which runes are active at the begining of an adventure. Other runes could be activated when player find the spell book and next a particular runes in dungeon.

4. How about a customization of monsters statistics (especially strength, speed, and ability of regeneration)?

5. Maybe an implementation of trigger to run an external exe/dll would be a good idea. We could add some extra effect like quake (quake spell, not quake game or unexpected sounds or music. Anyway, this detail is less importnt for me.

Regards
Pedro

Nice suggestions!

Me, I thought to look at other dungeon-like games and take ideas from them. For example, in Captive, have the possibility to have elevators, ladders, shoppers, guns...

In Dungeon Hack, have the possibility to have a different graphic set (walls, floor, ceiling, doors...) for each level of the dungeon.

And maybe much more... What do you think about all this?

@pedro:

1 is already possible with the RESTRICT_SAVES main variable set to TRUE and an invisible FLOORITEM_SAVE_POINT object in front of the alcove. You just need to activate the save point when the object is into the alcove (constant weight checked).

@dragonslover :

i think elevators, ladders are already possible with teleporters and by cloning some wallitems buttons.
the "diffferent wallset by level" feature is already implemented in RTC.

Isn't the second suggestion also possible? You just need to put the desired equipment to the same spot with the mirror that holds the champion? I haven't done this in RTC editor, but I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

yes i did it already, but you can't do it for starting characters (in the [Party] section).

Yes, ladders and elevators are already possible using existing mechanics. I have ladders in my CSBWin dungeon -- the only downside is that they must be wallitems -- you can't climb directly up a pit for example.

Multi-level elevators are a bit harder but certainly possible if you have a down switch on one wall and an up switch on the other.

linflas wrote:
1 is already possible with the RESTRICT_SAVES main variable set to TRUE and an invisible FLOORITEM_SAVE_POINT object in front of the alcove. You just need to activate the save point when the object is into the alcove (constant weight checked).

Yes, it's a good step forward. Notice, however, that:
a. player can save as many times as he want (if he possess a proper item).
b. The option is accesible only in a particular place(s)
That's not what meant. My idea is to enable save option with some item which would be destroyed after that (or put into slot, like gem or coin) and disable it when save is executed by player. He could use this possibility in most convenient place & time (of course, if he activated it earlier).
So, all we need is a special trigger to enable/disable save option.


My next proposition is:

6. To add possibility to change statistics for cloned items. For example, we could clone the Crown of Nerra which add +10 to mana and +5 to wisdom or change defense level for some armour.

Pedro

Damage tiles can be made active/inactive -- presumably it would be simple enough to apply the same code to save points George?

for the saving, there is nothing to stop you doing that with a staggered set of commands, one that activates the save, another that deactivates the save after a length of time for the same object, which is destroyed

There's currently no capability of disabling/enabling a save spot -- it's always enabled.

Gambit37 wrote:Yes, ladders and elevators are already possible using existing mechanics. I have ladders in my CSBWin dungeon -- the only downside is that they must be wallitems -- you can't climb directly up a pit for example.

Multi-level elevators are a bit harder but certainly possible if you have a down switch on one wall and an up switch on the other.

And what about adding two more buttons in the controls: Go up and go down! Isn't that possible?

That's what I meant -- inside the elevator. It's possible to do a convincing one with clever use of existing mechanics using timers to control the door, two wall items in each cell for up and down buttons and teleporters for moving from cell to cell -- each cell would be the elevator as it appears on different levels.

You'd be amazed what you can do with the existing mechanics, you just have to put some thought into how to apply them.

In RTC, you might even be able to create the up/down buttons on the same wall -- not sure how it works with layered objects that are offset from each other.

clone a lever ! but this will work only for a 2 floors elevator..

Triggers for wall objects are only activated for mouse clicks that occur over the objects graphic. This means that if you put several buttons on a wall, each with different graphic offsets, you can create the elevator pad you're looking for.

Fixed the save pad for V0.32 so that it can now be enabled / disabled just like any other.

Coolio!

George Gilbert wrote:Fixed the save pad for V0.32 so that it can now be enabled / disabled just like any other.

Nice to read this

And what do you think of my other propositions? Are there, in your opinion, possible and reasonable to implement (in more or less distant future)?

Hmmm....

1) Done. The save point isn't a trigger per se, but you can now point triggers at it to enable /.disable as you please.

2) Can already sort of do this by placing items immediately by the entrance. I appreciate this isn't quite what you're asking though.

3) Again, like 2, you can sort of do this by placing appropriate scrolls and the spell book by the entrance. I think (althoudh I'd have to check, I wrote this bit a long time ago!) that you can even specify runes for the spell book itself so you wouldn't even need the scrolls, just the book with the appropriate runes added.

4) Tricky. There are over 100 stats for each monster; getting an easy to use text format would be a nightmare (which is why I came up with the idea of cloning in the first place). I'm not sure what you would gain from this option anyway as there's already a huge variety of combinations of monster stats in the existing monsters. Is there anything in particular you were looking for as I'm quite happy to add new monster types...

5) Not a chance! Implementing this would be an enormous project and take years to complete. If there's anything extra you want, let me know and it'll be far easier to implement directly.

So in summary, I don't think there's anything else to implement in the short term, but feel free to argue for specific ideas

Gambit37 wrote:That's what I meant -- inside the elevator. It's possible to do a convincing one with clever use of existing mechanics using timers to control the door, two wall items in each cell for up and down buttons and teleporters for moving from cell to cell -- each cell would be the elevator as it appears on different levels.

You'd be amazed what you can do with the existing mechanics, you just have to put some thought into how to apply them.

In RTC, you might even be able to create the up/down buttons on the same wall -- not sure how it works with layered objects that are offset from each other.

No, no! I meant, under the blue buttons at the bottom-right of the screen. Under the arrows buttons: Put a ladder button that goes up and a ladder button that goes down, like in Captive.

Oh, well in that case, no you can't do that with existing mechanics and I very much doubt it will be added as an option.

George Gilbert wrote: 2) Can already sort of do this by placing items immediately by the entrance. I appreciate this isn't quite what you're asking though.

If we can customize statistics now, why not to do the same for the characters' stuff? The dungeon makers would feel more free and independent of classical settings. Dropping items just on the floor around start point seems to be a bit messy.

George Gilbert wrote: 3) Again, like 2, you can sort of do this by placing appropriate scrolls and the spell book by the entrance. I think (althoudh I'd have to check, I wrote this bit a long time ago!) that you can even specify runes for the spell book itself so you wouldn't even need the scrolls, just the book with the appropriate runes added.

In my adventure, the player must find the spell book at first. I wanted to give him, at least, the light spell. However, a solution with torches is also possible.

George Gilbert wrote: 4) Tricky. There are over 100 stats for each monster; getting an easy to use text format would be a nightmare (which is why I came up with the idea of cloning in the first place). I'm not sure what you would gain from this option anyway as there's already a huge variety of combinations of monster stats in the existing monsters. Is there anything in particular you were looking for as I'm quite happy to add new monster types...

All statistics could be placed in one array, for example:
MONSTER_MUMMY_DARK ATTRS=(50,20,1,0,0,255,18,1)
In this way the text format won't be more tangled.
I don't want hundreds stats which are used internally by the engine. Just several most significant.
We could also customize cloned items in this way.

George Gilbert wrote: 5) Not a chance! Implementing this would be an enormous project and take years to complete. If there's anything extra you want, let me know and it'll be far easier to implement directly.

Enormous? In basic version, the engine could call ShellExecute(...) or CreateProcess(...) or LoadLibrary and some simple protocol to send position of the party (maybe something yet)
The rest would belong to the users - they could write an unlimited plugins using OpenGL/DirectX or whatever. Of course, not every user is a programmer, but that's not a problem - they could use ready plugins written by others.
We could also implement a music and sounds which would be activated/deactivated on certain party's positions.

George Gilbert wrote: I think (althoudh I'd have to check, I wrote this bit a long time ago!) that you can even specify runes for the spell book itself so you wouldn't even need the scrolls, just the book with the appropriate runes added.

i've seen this in an old custom dungeon (chiefy or unidane, don't remember)

4) I'd still vote for at least minor subset of changeable parameters, and a list of the current parameters attributed to each creature. It's virtually impossible to create a worthy adversary without knowing the basic parameters of the current ones. What's it's poison resistance? Magic resistance? Sharp resistance? etc. etc.

At the very least I would suggest allowing speed, armour and resistances to be modified. Currently, if I want a fast monster, I have to clone the giggler, replace all it's images and change all it's attacks. To me that's counter productive to making a new monster and just tweaking a couple of parameters.

You also have the issue of immersiveness. People who have followed RTC will play a dungeon that contains a fast worm and say to themselves 'Oh, that's a cloned giggler' -- it detracts from the psychology of the unknown and therefore the immersivness and atmosphere of the game. Providing some capability of creating truly unique monsters I think is essential for any kind of longevity to RTC.

About the attribute changes, could you not clone a monster and then use one of those multi part strings used to set other attribs on objects.

MY_MONSTER ATTR(STR:20,REGEN:50)

and just loop through each one and match it against the correct stat, of course a list of them would be very handy if there is over 100 that could be changed?

Believe it or not, I've just done two of these:

- 2) When starting a dungeon, any equipment that is on the same tile as the party starts on is now automatically put into the characters backpacks (or on them if it's a weapon / armour). I've done it this way (rather than specifying the equipment in the [party] section) as it means that you can equip imported characters too. You can also turn this option off to allow you to genuinely enter a dungeon with nothing, even if there are items on the floor (e.g. in CSB).

- 4) You can now modify quite a few of the more "obvious"stats (18 in total I think), including speed, armor, various spell resistances and body parts that are dropped when theiy're killed. I've also exposed a few of the less obvious ones that might be useful; for example poisonousness, how easily a monster is scared and the range at which they can see / smell a party and start to hunt them down...

Woooooohohohohohhoooooooooooooooyyyyuyuoppuopoittt--oot! Cool beans George! Thanks for number 4 especially....

George Gilbert wrote:Believe it or not, I've just done two of these:

- 2) When starting a dungeon, any equipment that is on the same tile as the party starts on is now automatically put into the characters backpacks (or on them if it's a weapon / armour). I've done it this way (rather than specifying the equipment in the [party] section) as it means that you can equip imported characters too. You can also turn this option off to allow you to genuinely enter a dungeon with nothing, even if there are items on the floor (e.g. in CSB).

- 4) You can now modify quite a few of the more "obvious"stats (18 in total I think), including speed, armor, various spell resistances and body parts that are dropped when theiy're killed. I've also exposed a few of the less obvious ones that might be useful; for example poisonousness, how easily a monster is scared and the range at which they can see / smell a party and start to hunt them down...

Wow!, Thanks very much That's more I waited for.
How pitiful the players will be! They are not aware yet how awful monsters they will be soon faced with.

And what do you think about similar extension for cloned items? We could manipulate stats for primary & secondary characters' skills. How much is valuable, for example, moonstone pendant which adds only 2 points to mana while the player needs hundreds points to repel furious atacks of enemies? Harder dungeons need more powerful stuff, I think.

Pedro