MAP DEVELOPING (especially for Zyx & other designers!)

[Adamo]

Hi there Zyx (& other designers!)

I wanted to put this subject onto Zyx`s private message board, but I changed my mind. Maybe anyone else could be also interested in this topic? So that`s why I`m putting this on that forum.

I`ve got just one idea:
Zyx, Your Conflux II is really a very, very huge game, I think it`s bigger is excellent. But while playing it`s easy to loose a way in such big dungeon. Could You give us a map (I mean, not in-game map, of course - that`s not good idea and that may kill the gameplay), but a map placed somewhere in the internet (maybe on Your internet site?) for the players to take. a map without anything, but 3 things only: walls, floors and stairs of each level (of course, without the positions of monsters, items, teleporters, pits, hidden pits, hidden walls, invicible walls, shooters, wall & floor decorations, doors etc.), to prevent the secrets of a game. I realise, that providing a map fith FULL description is not good idea, because it would kill the gameplay, but providing a BASIC map could rather help the player and make a game more attractive. A player could PRINT that basic map on a paper(s) and, during the game, mark the secrets & all stuff with a pen on the map.
Not everyone have good sense of locality, and for me for example, it`s a horror to find, where this particular doors were (which level was it and how to get there again?). I think it`s sometimes boring for the player going here-and-there for an hour to find some doors, if he don`t remember well their location.
Maybe You`ll put that BASIC map (without secrets rooms, of course, and all other things that I allready wrote) of Your next game?

BTW: Conflux II was definitly too easy for me- I want a real TERROR! Maybe in Your next game You`ll put 2 versions of the game: one for normal players and second for ILL PEOPLE (which I`m definitly on this second group! )

Greetings!

[Trantor]

Conflux II too easy??? God, do I feel bad now...

Anyway, I like your idea. It won't spoil too much, and everybody can decide for themselves whether they want this help or not.

[Gambit37]

You might as well map by hand -- it's *much* more satisfying -- I mapped Conflux 2 and it was very tricky but a fantastic feeling when it all came together and I was able to line all the floors up.

Anyway, wishes sometimes come true.

[Zyx]

Well, it just happens that Gambit and I are working on this very project, that is making available some hand drawn maps to help the player and give him some hints. However, he must first find the corresponding scrolls in the dungeon...
So far Gambit has achieved an amazing quality. It will not only help the players, but add a lot to the atmosphere. (So allow me to thank him for once in this thread).
As for the levels of dificulty, I'll ponder this... I'll have a try.

[beowuuf]

Can you quantify the 'too easy' and your style of gamplay out of interest? If your 'too easy' is 'I sat and trained my characters for four hours' or 'yeah, I just fireballed everything, so easy' then obviously this might not fit with other people's style of gameplay. Were monsters not tough enough, or puzzles easy, or did you just jump right to the end levels and not face half the nasty stuff in unneccessary areas?
I think Conflux II has already a large difficulty, especially at the start - it's a nice progression so interesting to know what was easy about it : )

[Adamo]

My style of the gameplay is: I took 2 characters (from fighters guilde) on the beginning, and explored each level step-by-step, not to deny any secrets or monsters. I always try to kill EVERY monster in the game (unfortunatelly, at least one of them is immortal, so I had to imprision him! ). Anyway, I want to end this game in the HARDEST way of possible (I heard Conflux II have a lot of endings). Which of them is the hardest? Help!
Training characters four hours at one place is VERY boring, I think.
In my opinion, if Zyx would put 2 versions of his next game: normal one and very hard one, in the second one players should gain experience much more slower than normally in Conflux II (!) Why do I think like that? Because,while playing, I was frustrated, that characters gains experience too fast on the beginning (after one fight for example), but NOW luckily their experience now stuck at first or second master and don`t want to move at all (I love blood, sweat & tears!). Maybe it was MY mistake, when I reincarnated my characters in the beginning, instead of resurrecting them?
Anyway, I think the "bosses" like dragons are very easy to kill: You can just "dance" with them, but what if You put TWO dragons inyo the one cavern and seal the way out, unless You kill them both? Monsters (especially the "bosses" I think should be more powerfull than they`re now, and harder to kill. But I`m DEFINITELLY AGAINST ANY IMMORTAL MONSTERS - when I can`t kill that monster, it`s very frustrating and makes game boring
As for the fireballs: making non-magic in-game areas/levels (I wrote about it on one forum) should solve this problem (I hate that damn magic, I think monsters should have a lot of magic, but characters - much, much less than it is now!!)
[/quote]

[Paul Stevens]

providing a BASIC map could rather help the player and make a game more attractive

I've always enjoyed making my own maps on 5x5 quadrille
paper. I think if there were maps available I would find it sort
of stupid to try and make my own. In any case, maps of places
not yet visisted is a very bad idea, IMHO. I don't knwo what
Zyx and friend have in mind but it sounds like a good
compromise solution.

[beowuuf]

Playtesting ConfluxII, I can tell you that the 'maps' are placed in the darndest places, so you don't just fall over them and spoil it. Also, playtesting conflux II I think you will find there are some much harder fights now - I agree the best fight I've ever had is facing three powerful dragons trapped in a cavern, but there are more elegant solutions for boss monsters, and some interesting twists too.

Immortal monsters are good I think - otherwise you can just kill everything (as you want to), and every player should realise they aren't god of the dungeon, there should always be something more powerful than them : ) Plus, usually there is a puzzle-specific reason. I always said it would be nice, once some of the big endings are done, if the dungeon became a much worse place to reflect the lawlessness and lack of governing forces - like unkillable vicious monsters and ancient evils being released in normally safe places! The object isn't to defeat them, the object is just to be powerful enough to survive the encounter as you move around, to be cunnign enough to trap them somewhere less annoying temporarily.

Also, you can automatically make the game harder for yourself by not taking fighters, or even better taking the malificent guild : )