Dungeon Master Forum

Has anyone ever gone back to where you first enter the Dongon after killing the dragon on level 14. I just did that and this guy comes out says"welcome back adventures you never discovered the power of the firestafe but now I have it!, so I have no need for you!" And then he kills all your guys with one fireball!

this is the (wrong) alternative end of DM.

*alternate anyway

I have finished DM many time and I have never succeed to see this wrong end. When I got the firestaff (I have try without and with power gem), I be back to the entrance of first level and the door desperately stay closed.

The only thing that I'm able to see is the Lord order behind the door with the spell Oh Ew Ra. I have send a lot of sort (fireball, poison cloud, Lightning Bolt etc...) on this door but nothing change.

I play to DM on my Amiga maybe my disk have some bug but I have never any trouble when I play the game.

Strange problem...

If you take the activated Firestaff back to the doors, nothing will happen, it needs to be the one you get on level 7; the level with the Stone Golems. Also, there is a secret mechanism that prevents you from taking the activated staff up any further than the Chaos level, it can be avoided though.

I saw the alternate ending with my Amiga game, so you may want to try again with the normal firestaff

If I remember I have read somewhere (maybe on http://dmweb.free.fr/) that this alternative end may not work on some version on the game.

I've played DM on Amiga, PC, and now the Atari version in the form of CSBWin, and this "alternate ending" worked in every single version I played. As Ian Clark and Beo already said, do NOT try this with the upgraded Firestaff, but with the basic version you get in Level 7 (Tomb of the Firestaff). If you take the upgraded Firestaff out of the chamber where the Power Gem is, you won't be able to return to level 12 and upstairs. This, however, can be prevented if you just throw the upgraded Firestaff through the door and pick it up again there.

It should work on all versions, as long as you don't have the powergem attached to the firestaff.

It amazes me how after so many years people are still discovering these little details. Great stuff!

i discovered it when i visited DME for the first time ! so many years without having the idea to go back to the entrance with the firestaff

That is one huge fireball. 478 damage!

It can go a lot further than that. The generator is just less than half the maximum strength.

I have try to go back with firestaff not completed with the power gem, directly when I got it in the level 7 and the door never opened, I'm sure. I have played so many hours in this game, I never forget this detail and I have try with few different save game and characters.

But is not very important, thanks to Ian Clark, I have see now what this alternative end looks like.

Lord order seems not very nice guy finally.

balance is the ultimate good

Summary:

1. Going to start WITHOUT firestaff: nothing happens
2. Going to start with UNACTIVATED firestaff from Level 7: Alternative ending
3. With ACTIVATED firestaff from Level 14:
a) carrying the staff the "usual way" : upper Levels will be closed
b) throwing the staff out of the room: upper Levels still available, but nothing happens at start

By reading the DM background story this makes sense: Your goal is to merge Lord Chaos and Lord Order to the Grey Lord. Both of them are in some way "evil" for themself. Only the balance of both of them is the "good". So if you carry the "unfinished" firestaff to Lord Order, no balance is created, therefore he destroyes you. Bringing him the finished firestaff was not in sight of the programmers, you can only do this by using a "hole" in the code.
Maybe some of the guys involved with RTC make a new ending for this case...Suggestion: Lord Order joins the party...If you want something done good, make it by yourself...

Well, yes it does make sense now that you mention that. That's an interesting idea for RTC.

Lord order can't enter the dungeon though, can he? I was bored a few days ago and poking around on various websites I ended up reading the official DM manual on the DM Encyclopaedia site. I seem to recall that Order can't leave the dungeon, nor can Chaos leave it, so Theron has to go in and do all the work himself. Something like that, anyway.

Ameena has it perfectly

I think the idea is that Order is inflexible - therefore just as 'evil' as the capricious whims of Chaos (for the greater good you can easily sacrifice a few more heroes who aren't perfect, might interfere and should be dead anyway)

Ameena wrote:Order can't leave the dungeon, nor can Chaos leave it, so Theron has to go in and do all the work himself. Something like that, anyway.

You surely meant that "Order can't enter the Dungeon"?

beowuuf wrote:Ameena has it perfectly

Not really...gotcha!

So i've had a error in reasoning... Lord Order can't join the party, so what could happen instead?

Theron becomes coporeal and joins the party directly

I didn't catch that part in the story...strange...I did catch that he can't enter...if that's really what you meant.