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Editing of built in items instead of cloning?
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:20 am
by Gambit37
I know, I know...
But I'll ask anyway. Is there any way to modify key parameters of standard objects without cloning?
In looking at creating a 'hi-res update' to DM, I'd like to give items their own unique hit sounds for example. To do this, I'd have to clone *every* item in the game then search and replace all the old items with the cloned ones. It's a lot of work!
Would there be a way of at least allowing some key parameters of standard objects to be edited?
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:37 am
by George Gilbert
You can replace sounds and bitmaps already (i.e. directly replacing the resources). Wouldn't this give you exactly what you want?
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:57 am
by beowuuf
Actually, it's not as much work as it sounds since you can use the'find/replace all' of word or notepad to alter sword to 'sword_new'. Make sure it's using exact match, and it's one button click to replace things with cloned alternatives
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:38 pm
by Gambit37
George Gilbert wrote:You can replace sounds and bitmaps already (i.e. directly replacing the resources). Wouldn't this give you exactly what you want?
Nope -- you can't assign a 'boulder dropping' sound to a boulder or a 'arrow clattering' sound to an arrow this way. You need to clone for these attributes to become editable. If you want to add unique sounds to lots of items, you'd have to clone pretty much the entire dungeon. Same for monsters and well, everything.
beowuuf wrote:Actually, it's not as much work as it sounds since you can use the'find/replace all' of word or notepad to alter sword to 'sword_new'. Make sure it's using exact match, and it's one button click to replace things with cloned alternatives
Yup, I realise that, but my argument is for not having to!
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:50 pm
by beowuuf
But that's more work for George when he could be doing a light cycling pad! : )
Seriosuly though, it would be one button press per type! I'll do it for you if you like : )
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:20 pm
by George Gilbert
Gambit37 wrote:George Gilbert wrote:You can replace sounds and bitmaps already (i.e. directly replacing the resources). Wouldn't this give you exactly what you want?
Nope -- you can't assign a 'boulder dropping' sound to a boulder or a 'arrow clattering' sound to an arrow this way. You need to clone for these attributes to become editable. If you want to add unique sounds to lots of items, you'd have to clone pretty much the entire dungeon. Same for monsters and well, everything.
Oh I see.
My understanding then is that currently you have to do this:
Code: Select all
[New - Sounds]
ADD SOUND_NEW FILE=(xxx) etc etc
[New - Objects]
ADD MISC_BOULDER_NEW CLONES=(MISC_BOULDER) SOUNDS=(SOUND_NEW) etc etc
[Items]
xxx MISC_BOULDER_NEW
But you're asking for a change so that you can do this:
Code: Select all
[New - Sounds]
ADD SOUND_NEW FILE=(xxx) etc etc
[New - Objects]
REPLACE MISC_BOULDER SOUNDS=(SOUND_NEW) etc etc
[Items]
xxx MISC_BOULDER
Is that right?
If so, then there's only a few characters difference between the two (swapping ADD for REPLACE, removing the CLONES=(xxx) and the _NEW bit from the items section) and I think that Beowuufs suggestion of using find-and-replace in notepad seems a pretty good idea!
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:25 pm
by beowuuf
I think the point was if he can edit items, then he could edit the sound of each item through the editor like it was cloned (so in the editor he could press 'edit' instead of clone and assign the sound like you assign the sound of the cloned item).
If you do it my way he creates a clone, for not much extra work compared to an edit, but then does have to alter tons of items in notepad...but I can do that! especially if each clone is names with a _N tag or soemhting for ease (MISC_BUOLDER -> MISC_BOULDER_N)
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:05 pm
by Gambit37
beowuuf wrote:I think the point was if he can edit items, then he could edit the sound of each item through the editor like it was cloned (so in the editor he could press 'edit' instead of clone and assign the sound like you assign the sound of the cloned item).
Exactly. I still don't understand why I would have to clone all these items just to modify a couple of parameters.
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:50 pm
by beowuuf
Because in tha background George still has to do exactly what he's just decribed - he'd have to create the substitution route he described, and have the editor 'edit' actually create these lines, and then find them again if you wanted to edit the onject again - I'd guess : )
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:37 pm
by George Gilbert
Gambit37 wrote:I still don't understand why I would have to clone all these items just to modify a couple of parameters.
And I still don't understand why you need this feature!
It would be about the same number of mouse clicks in the editor to change an existing item to cloning one, so that can't be it. It wouldn't give any saving in terms of memory usage or performance,so that's not it either.
Is your objection then purely semantic - i.e. why *clone* something that's nearly the same rather than just edit it? (BTW, the answer is because it *is* different; that's what cloning generally is - taking a copy of something that exists!)
The only possible argument for this feature that I can see is that it would save you a few minutes in notepad doing find-and-replaces (and even then Beowuuf has offered to do this for you, so actually its *no* time saving for you) against a cost of several days for me to code up the feature (and then innevitably a few weeks more fixing the bugs Sophia finds in it). If you can produce a convincing argument for it then I'll happily do it - but I havn't seen one yet
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:05 am
by Gambit37
OK, when you put it like that, then there's not much for me to argue against. However:
Gambit37 wrote:If you want to add unique sounds to lots of items, you'd have to clone pretty much the entire dungeon. Same for monsters and well, everything.
I guess I just see it as wasted effort to have to duplicate everything in a dungeon that already exists!
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:45 am
by beowuuf
It doens't exist in the dungeon though, it really exists in the engine where GG hid it : )
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:03 am
by Gambit37
Doh! Ah, of course. I was being thick all along, I didn't even really think of that!
