Dungeon Master Forum

While it is nice and nostalgical to have the save/load-menus be optically very similar to original FTL-DM, they are somewhat restricted without need.

1) Why does RTC only allow 8 savegames per dungeon? I mean the list of modules can also be scrolled. Why not allow any number of savegames per dungeon and have their list scrolled (and like the dungeon list even allow for subdirectories)? That way I wouldn't have to copy aroound savegame files when I begin let's say a game of CSB with new characters from the prison in order to avoid having veteran games overwritten or having less then 8 slots for the current game.

2) It's good to have a reload button after the parties death. Yet if I decide that the last savegame has already been too hopeless to proceed and want to return to the savegame before that, I have to quit the game and restart it in order to get to the list of savegames to be loaded. On an old machine this takes quite an annoying moment. George, can you please change the reload into 2 buttons: "Reload last savegame" and "Reload other savegame"?!

3) If I currently want to return to a savegame because 3 of 4 characters are dead far from any Altar of Vi, I have to cast a fireball on a wall in front of me in order to get to the reload button. I would much prefer to have a "Load savegame" option directly in the engine's interface, along with a hot key like let's say <CTRL + L>.

2) There are already several threads about this on this sub-forum (e.g. http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25323 and http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25263 )

3) This has been discussed before too (e.g. http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=20330 )

Right, I shold have made a reply there instead of opening up a new thread, maybe you can moderate this post there. So just consider this to bump this general topic.

Yet the previous threads are mainly concerned with 3). I would still like to have 1) and 2), or at least 1). The latter should be rather easy to implement.

The other thread (which I shall not revive as it hasn't had any posts for almost 4 years) did make a good point about having to save, quit, reload, etc., just to start CSB. This was an artifact of the design of the times, I think.

Of course, the problem doesn't necessarily need to be fixed in the engine; it can be solved by the dungeon designer, as well. In SS I take a CSB-style approach but I have a teleporter that leads into the main dungeon.

George, since you're also the dungeon "designer" for RTC CSB I'll throw both solutions at you.

Personally, I don't think any changes are necessary. 8 save game slots is plenty. Quitting and restarting doesn't take very long either.

I tend to save about every 20 minutes usually at some safe position where I can get the characters all cured up, rested, wined and dined. Saving too often takes the edge off the danger element - I like to go in with all guns blazing and be prepared to crash and burn. If I end up in a pickle I've got to fight my way out. If a character dies grab his bones and make for the nearest VI altar. Though if three out of four die it IS fireball against the wall time...

Ok, if the overall structure of RTC is ill-suited for flexible reloading savegames, can we simplify this entire issue by simply having a suicide shortcut key added?

Especially now that the fireshield finally properly works suicide can be quite tiresome if you previously had a thick layer of multiple Mon fireshields cast on your party.

Shutting yourself in a door (take helmets off first) is another way...of course if you're Fireballing yourself at the same time, every little helps .

Problem with the suicide option is you just know someone's going to use it by mistake...

Personally, I really don't have a problem killing myself to reload a save game - I've just got used to it over the years. And I don't, personally, see the need for more than 8 saves, I mean back in the day you could have as many as you liked, just as long as you have the floppies, but it was still overkill to have more than 4 or so. That's just my opinion anyway...

Ameena: Sure, there are dozens of methods of killing the party. Yet - if you are at a place without doors or reclimbable pits, have boosted your dex and cast a thick layer of physical shields to become virtually unattackable and have used a lot more Mana to strongly shield yourself from fire and thus have not enough Mana for more than a couple of fireballs, i.e. not an untypical behaviour for the Materializer level in DM, you'll need way longer to commit suicide than to quit the game and completely reload the engine, the dungeon and the savegame (which does take quite a moment on an old machine).

A death key shouldn't take much effort to implement and would solve a couple of problems. George, can you please add it?

I'm not sure anymore, but I think that there was an FTL version that had one too (can't remember though whether it had been ST, Amiga, PC, DM, CSB or DM2, let alone which build).

Pad: That could be prevented by having an config option for it, so people with an old and slow machine could turn it on and choose a key for it, other people might be content with quitting and restarting.
Aside from that you could make it by default use a otherwise improbable <CTRL+something> combination.

poison clouds kill effectively depsite shielding.

Beo: Yes, but for encounters that make you think you need strong shields and dex boost you will possibly have a strong vitality boost too. Well developed, quickly regenerating characters are slow to kill by poison clouds, and even without that any character above 600 health will just take awfully long to suffocate. Of course you can still kill yourself with poison bolts, but then again you have to shoot down every character separately, which again can take some time for powerful characters.

And all spell deaths require that you still have sufficient Mana, and all dungeon mechanics deaths require a suitable place. So I think there should be a suicide key combination. After all, no one who doesn't want to would have to use it, but those who do see a need for it could use it then. Also have in mind that this is mainly a problem for slow machines, faster ones don't take that long to quit and restart.

Lunever! Why would you like to restart when your champions are <invincible>?! Just curious..
Getting rid of heros is sometimes not easy!
All I can think of is maybe a spell that does anti vitality or anti health.
like a des potion, that is hazardous to health. Easy to cast it should be so maybe an oh potion is even better ! like getting air into the veins or sth..

maybe not suitable for your desktop and or rtc
how about opening multiple rtc programmes, so you simply switch to the one that is ready to load a savegame(like different tabs in a browser)

Zooooom: If you did for example something stupid in CSB and fall down a long way, you might very well know how to get back again, but especially because you do know the way and also know how long it will take you, you might be inclined to reload. Or you get an awfully bad levelup roll, like 8 Mana for becoming an Um-master priest.

Of course there are players who always play on and reject any idea of reloading. But there are also players who at least occassionally prefer a reload.
And, really, running multiple RTC instances sounds a lot less reasonable to me than having a death key implemented. And adding custom poison potions will cut you off from the gHoF.

hmm.
So you want a quick save and quick load slot. Seems reasonable.

I think being able to load a game from the save/quit menu would make playing more user friendly. If saving is only a matter of having a .SV# file created, then would upto 16 save slots work: .SV0 to .SVF?

Even when playtesting several different permutations of the same dungeon area at the same time. This can be made quicker by being able to switch between the seperate dungeons to see which looks and feels better. Also, you can keep ideas in your mind a lot easier without needing to be distracted by exiting out of the game and waiting for it to re-load.

suicide key = alt-F4

Wow, just tried that and it works!!! George must have secretly implemented it!!!

*tries alt+F4 too*

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D'OH!