Dungeon Master Forum

I'm sorry but I gotta vent or this little bastard is going to be hanging from the ceiling fan from a very short leash.

The thing moves in and eats my entire herb garden. I like to cook. I like to cook with fresh herbs.. they taste better. Now.. now I rarely cook. The thing was not only persistant but would do everything in it's ability to chew them to the roots.. no matter where I put them.. how many times I chased it off and how dead they were. Finally.. I threw them out. Please note I have my own kitty who never touched the herb garden.

Next, the vile little bugger jumps on everything.. this is aided by the fact that when I yell at it.. it would just ignore me and my roomate would pick him up talking sweetly to it and petting him and coddling him. Yeah.. so uh.. what does the cat learn? If I jump on stuff, I get love and attention. She lets it do whatever it wants in her room.. knocking crap over weaving in and out. Well I'm sorry.. but I don't like to make my sandwich on a counter where some cat who recently dug around in it's own urine and feces, was walking around. Call me crazy but cat shit does not make a good seasoning.. nor does cat litter.

it has wandered into my room and busted the place up.. It forced it's way through my blinds to get to the window snapping the blinds so now there are parts missing. not only that but knocks my collected statues all off and causing more damage. This thing does not walk around.. it walks through.. oh.. it's in my way? not no more.. *CRASH*...

Yes, my cat likes to look out the window also.. but he finds the path of least resistance.. and a casual "No" stops him in his tracks and he goes to do somthing else.

I decided to try a stronger detterant. So I got a water gun. This thing comes back to my room every 5 mins or less some days.. it's so incredibly persistant or stupid.. not sure which. that even though it runs off.. it tries again hoping to eventually get through. WHY?? there is nothing out my room window.. it's a nice view of a parked van They have a LARGE bay window in the living room.. closer to his room than mine.. filled with birds and plants and people walking by.. ie.. very interesting. yet still it returns over and over. I have to lock my door..

The thing likes to sing under my door trying to pull it open.. at about 3 am.. again.. every 5 mins. This happens because she doesn't want to keep him in her room because he's driving her nuts. fantastic.. so now it's my turn..

so.. what does it try yesterday? "I'm going to show that stupid human who is boss" after a quick dousing.. I chased him out of my room.. he went behind the big TV and took a nice big PISS.. strong and potent. Litter box is clean.. available.. and I was no where near it at the time. So there is no good excuse aside from revenge.. I know male cats have been known to do this.. to establish dominance. He tries to beat the living shit outta my cat.. it's just turned 3 and my aged kitty is 11. He's not spry.. and is not interested in being pounced on from the window sill as it jumps on him and sinks it's teeth into his neck for a nice long time. IT'S A VILE LITTLE PRICK..

Aside from being cute.. it has no redeemable qualities.. no dicipline and no use.

So.. now.. how do I get rid of the smell of the piss? I used baking soda, Febreeze, vinegar, soap and water... I still smell it. I don't even know if I found the *only* location.. or if there are more. I'm so pissed.. The one room I use to entertain.. and it smells like cat piss. GAHHHHHH!!!

Does siamese go good with red or white whine?

You must like your roomate very much. You
are paying a high price for him/her.

What does your roommate say?

It doesn't sound like a very well raised cat.

"People should raise their animals as if they were children, otherwise neither you nor the pet will learn anything." Kinda thing.

Sorry it doesn't really help your current situation, though...

cowsmanaut wrote:Aside from being cute.. it has no redeemable qualities.. no dicipline and no use.

That sums up cats in general.

And quite a few people...

yes, the roomate is fine.. just her cat. I'm a very tollerant person.. too tollerant some might suggest. I put up with a lot and even after I've snapped still accept a little bit more...

Really, all I care about now is getting the carpet to not smell like ammonia...

As for my cat.. I dunno. I set rules when he was a kitten.. the moment he could reach the counters I took care to make sure he understood that he was not allowed up there. The second I started chewing on things he was not supposed to.. bam.. right there to make sure it stopped. I had a few incidents with him doing rotten things in that first year.. but after that he's been awesome. He even plays fetch, comes when he's called and I can get him to sit and lay down.. People assume cat's can not be trained.. but then most people never try.

moo

I know what you mean, I used to have two cats that I'd raised (with mum's help) from kittens, they were the most lovliest cat-shaped people you could hope to meet.

On contrary to dogs cats are difficult to be taught behaviour anyway, they have their own will. Yet, they do learn a thing or another, for they are not stupid. It will be very very difficult to teach it anything now that it has been spoiled for 3 years already, and it will absolutely impossible without your roomate taking responsibility and fully supporting you in this.

As you already observed: There are many people who make the mistake of assuming animals to be human children. That's plain wrong, They aren't humand children. While they do need care and affection, their way of thinking just works quite differently from humans. For one, they don't understand our language the structure and vocabulary of human language, but they do understand its tone, whether you are yelling angrily at them or speaking softly to them. Many people assume they can TALK an animal out of bad behaviour by calmly speaking to it. This is plain wrong (isn't working well with children either btw). As long as only you but not your roomate understand this, you won't have a chance of improving anything.

Some years ago a stray cat moved in here and decided to be our cat - well, rather that we are her can-openers now that her former ones had abandoned her. Lucky us, while occassionally she does annoying things like making enough noise in the middle of night to disturb your sleep, overally she behaves ok.

Before that however we had the tomcat of a friend for some weeks to care for while that friend was in hospital, and he did similar things, like for example pissing in the living room. Since he didn't like the water pistol either, but did not have enough respect it enough to change his behaviour, next time he did it I put on protection gloves and held him into the shower. He did memorize that and did not piss in the living room again. Don't get me wrong - I'm not in for being cruel to animals, I've been very fond of that tomcat, and it's not his fault that our friend ill-educated him. Yet, water doesn't really hurt but is unpleasant enought to be noticed at least. I don't know whether this would be the right method for you too or whether you'd come up with something else, but you HAVE to DO SOMETHING, BOTH of you, lest things will get even worse. Whatever measures you'll take be aware that a cat will only learn anything if such measures are presented closely connected to the bad behaviour they are supposed to cure.

the problem with the extreme act of the shower.. though I agree it will make an impression.. he would need to be caught in the act for it to make any sense to him.

Cat's can be trained by reinforcing or dettering behaviour at the time it happens. Good behaviour get's a treat.. bad get's a dousing. It's how I trained my own cat.

Nicky can recognise a few distinct words or short phrases. It's not just tone. They are often combined with gestures to make it more clear. Ie pointing. So if I say "Let's go" and point he goes in the direction I pointed. Most of the time anyway. "Get outta there" needs no direction he simply goes anywhere but there. The statement "Nicky, get the fly" caused him to stare at the ceiling and start meowing loudly. Each of these phrases have had reinforcing in order for them to work. for example.. I would point to the fly the first few times.. sometimes point his head if he was looking the wrong way.. then eventually he got the idea as to what he was looking for. I think all he got from it was "Nicky" and "Fly". "lay down" is used when he get's too fussy.. pacing on my bed and he knows he needs to settle or he'll be pushed off. Sometimes said annoyed.. sometimes said softly. Depending on my mood and if I'd just gotten to sleep and he woke me up or not

There are a few others.. and some body actions.. but you get the point. probably about 7 or 8 in total he knows. Not a lot.. but it's all I need.

I should say, that my Roomate is getting better about reinfocing my requests. Though not as dilligently as me. So I give her credit for effort. Really.. all this was, was I needed to vent to someone or snap. Since no one else was answering their phone You guys got the brunt of it

NP, imho this forum has become a community beyond the single-minded purpose of sharing an old game way back.

Sure, when I did the shower cure I did catch the tomcat inflagranti. Yet, sometimes you can make the connection of measures taken and behaviour outside that tight time frame - like first dragging the cat to its piss in the living room, from there to the cat toilet, and than use the water pistol. It's true though that cats have a short-lived memory and measures work best if taken immediately after the behaviour in question. On the other hand, it is vital to complement punishing measures by positive ones. If the cat does something it is allowed and suppposed to do, caress him and give him something he likes, like his favourite food.

Good your roomate shows some insight, I hope she will also do whatever she does consequently. There's nothing more confusing for an animal than erratic behaviour on the human side. If you decide for some measures it is vital to take them always, under no circumstances they may taken only occassionally.

Good luck with the cat, or rather good luck with your roomate!

A (cat)wee aside - a roommate in Britain is someone you share a room with, where as in the US it is someone you share a house or flat with (would be a housemate or flatmate in UK).

I only became aware of this a few years ago when playing a silly card game called Chez Geek http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/553

Basically, if you want to train a cat/dog/monkey/rat/human, the basic thing to do it reward good behaviour and ignore bad behaviour. Obviously, it can be hard to ignore negative behaviour if, say, you have a very large dog munching on your arm...and of course some behaviours are the natural instinctive behaviours of that species, for example rats chewing things, dogs chasing moving objects - it's what they do and you shouldn't punish it. Like, if a cat proudly presents you with something dead, you should act very happy with them and praise them since they're giving you a present.
Facial expression and body language are also generally vital when training, as well as tone of voice...an expression cats use is to open their eyes wide and stare directly - this is aggressive, in cat body language, so if you stare unblinkingly at your cat with wide-open eyes, he/she will probably take this as such. Narrowing your eyes and looking slightly away is a more contented expression.
It's harder to train cats than dogs because not only have they not been domesticated for as long (can't remember the figures but dogs have several thousand years over cats, I believe), but in the wild, cats (apart from lions) for the most part live alone unless rearing young. And some species such as cheetahs may stick in bachelor groups (males) or possibly mother and grown-up girl-cubs. So they don't have the hierarchal structure that canines have, and therefore no innate desire to please. A dog will consider him/herself part of a pack, preferably with you as the alpha (otherwise you start to get problems), and so will act to please you and stuff. A cat just lives in your house and eats food there, and may enjoy a cuddle every now and then (depends on the individual of course), but they don't generally consider you as a being who must be looked up to and obeyed.
Ooh I'm going into behaviourism/pscychology mode here...well umm I dunno if I actually said anything useful here anyway lol. Well, on the subject of your roommate's cat...you should basically keep at it, and not only be persistent, but consistent as well - make sure the same behaviours elicit the same response from you every time they're performed. And has already been mentioned, don't respond to a behaviour after it's been done (even, like, 5 mins is too much) - you have to give the reward or whatever while they're doing it.
Right, now I'm shutting up .

At least he pissed on the carpet, one cat once wet my matress. Not sure if it will work for cat piss, but tomato juice works well against skunk musk *sigh*. Oh, and if i read right, the problem cat is a siamese? Good luck with it, they are the most egotistical cats alive :p

Another thing about the naughty cat (what are their names, btw? I gather Nicky is your cat but what about the other one), is that if he's only recently arrived in your house he may be a bit unsettled (I know a dog who was the same, messed on the carpet loads of times shortly after we first got him home but is much better now). And of course, he's suddenly finding himself sharing territory with another cat, another cat who was there first. He may be attempting some kind of territory marking or he may just be stressed. Hopefully, given some time, he'll get better... How does he get on with your Nicky?

Hefty story!
Cats sometimes need to growl at each other to say:
"go away!" or "don't stress me right now" to other cats.
In a flat it can get ugly when some cats just do not get along with
each other.
A cat of my friend chased another cat up on a cupboard, and the cat would not go down again.
THey had to feed it on the cupboard. .. But generally , cats get along well , given people do not mess
too much into their test of strength. Difficult to know what to do.

Just now one of our cats(we got three) has a bite wound
and has to wear a plastic wrapping around it's neck to prevent scratching itself.
He used to go out into the garden (no city) most of the time and it is really sad looking. But he is ok. and can go out once more soon

I'd say... Either kick your roommate out, or tell them to get rid of the cat. Sounds like a bad situation =/

"Accidents" do happen... heh heh.

(I meant about the cat, not the roommate, but if you want to get creative...)

Nah, I'll keep them both for the time being.. I think the Cat's just starting to get the hang of things.. after all it's only been a year It's about the right amount of time to train a very dense cat.

If not.. I'll keep the wine and some nice fresh herbs to saute him in.

moo

"To get rid of the cat"????!!!!????

I'll never understand people who treat animals like that.

I don't like calling them "animals" as though we're something else. But that's probably just more of my pedanticism so don't think I'm having a go .
If he persists in not understanding what he's not allowed to do, all you can do is keep at it, really . Oh, and as well as squirting him or whatever to stop him doing stuff (ie giving punishment), it's usually effective to reward good behaviour too. Same with kids - if you're always telling them what they're not allowed to do, they never really find out what they are allowed to do. If there's something in particular the kitty likes (praise, favourite toy, treats, etc...though of course not too much of the latter), use this as a reward whenever you see him doing something that you want him to be doing. Hopefully he'll do it more often rather than the naughty things. If you give a verbal reward at the same time as the physical one (ie say something like "Good kitty" or whatever), and slowly phase out the physical reward over a time (not completely though - still give it on random occasions or he may stop bothering with the good behaviour), he should learn to get a good feeling from the verbal praise as well as the physical reward, so saying "Good kitty" will work just as well to praise him. Bear in mind that this will probably take a while, since he's a cat, whether or not he's dense .
Ooh this wasn't meant to be a very long post. Sorry but I love behaviourism .

my reward to him is I pet him and play with him in any other room but my own.. he comes into my room and bam.. water gun. He's in the living room behaving.. I'll pet, play, sing to him. if he's being an anus.. he get's the hose..

Cat's and dogs are little people.. they are not oblivious and untrainabale.. just because their brain's are smaller and they don't have the same verbal skills as us means nothing. I'm sure you've seen the cat's who learn to say "Hello, and Mama, and I LOVE YOU" etc.. my cat plays' fetch.. knows several words.. so on and so forth. They have personalities and learned behaviour.. plain and simple.. don't think.. "oh it's a cat.. what do you expect me to do?" .. that just drives me fricken bonkers..

The cat (what is his name? It's annoying just calling hiim "the cat") may have learned simply to associate you with being stroked etc, and so the room may make no difference - he might just be coming for a cuddle or whatever . If you keep squirting him when he comes into your room, he should pick it up eventually. At least he's not doing any real harm, just peeing on stuff. Can you not shut your door or something so he can't come in? I presume there's a reason that doesn't work since it's so obvious though .

Ameena wrote:At least he's not doing any real harm, just peeing on stuff.

... uh

If you're still having a problem with the smell, you probably have foam padding under the carpet. Sometimes steam cleaning can get the urine out of the padding, otherwise you could pry up that bit of carpet, and a bit of work with a pen knife would most likely solve your problem.

yeah.. the no harm currently = a week or so now of smelling cat urine..

I tried to rent a steamer but they wanted a creditcard of which I have never owned one. I used to be able to leave a deposit for things like that but they don't do that anymore. Then a friend had a steamer, and when I tried to borrow it.. turns out it was busted. I have a very small one.. but it's not doing the job...

I'm about ready to take a nice big steamer on the cat to solve the issue (kidding.. just had to) and if you didn't get it.. don't worry... you didn't want to

as for his name.. you don't want to know what I call him

Gerroffoutofityahlilbastardsunuvabichgrrrr?

Ick. You could always try calling your vet. They're bound to have either some special chemicals or tricks for getting urine smells out of fabric (or they have really high clothing budgets) that they might hook you up with.

No real harm as in no furniture/clothes/body parts torn apart, I meant .

Hey cows, you could show us a picture of both cats!

THere is rumours about a plant that is said to prevent cats
from pissing. We have one of these, but I think it was not too
overly effective...

Off topic I know, but just want to add to Cow's mini-rant about credit cards. I had one years a go and got myself into some trouble (read: I suck at managing money). I'm still paying off the debts and no longer have nor want credit cards. I'm soooo pissed at the amount of things that now require one, especially doing things online. Why isn't my bank debit card good enough?

Anyway, hope you establish a better relationship with the devil cat, Cowsmon.

I am being good and using it and paying it off - even where it was tempting or tight to pay it off (like buying laptop the month before had major spend out on concert and hotels) it is still standing at zero. The bad thing is i maganed to get two charges instead of the correct one for soemhting expensive., and both the card people and people who charged me are shrugging their shoulders! Yeah...hopefully resolve it soon

But yeah, the only reaosn i have a card is for online stuff that needs a card...switch and debit cards are really becoming muych more acceptable everywhere though. Hopefully in a year or so they would be acceted everywhere. Perosnally the one downside with that is, of cours,e that's my bank money that could get stolen - at least with credit cards it's not real money *cough* so if soemone steals the card number i am not unable to pay rent, buy food etc until the fraud is stopped