Dungeon Master Forum

started a side by side game from the original ST version and RTC earlier....some things ive found different!!....

only small things! but not sure if you want to know or not. but here they are.

1. champions with no fighter skills in ST version can both 'swing & chop' with an axe, in RTC you need to gain a few skill levels to be able to 'chop'

2. it gets dark ALOT quicker in ST version, on 1st level after hall of champions gets dark very fast, need lots of light spells to keep the dungeon light, every time you sleep and re-awake the dungeon is dark. In RTC think 1 or 2 light spells keeps you going until level 4 or 5.

3. Spells "fly" much higher in RTC than they do in ST version.

4. food and water seems to run out much faster in ST version, im almost out of food on ST version, doesnt seem to be a problem on RTC.

sorry if these seem petty. but they are differences, just letting you guys know.

rob

2 & 4 - the clock is running faster if you are playing CSBwin, so the difference is in the CSBwin engine. Never done a CSBwin and PC DM game side by side, but CSBwin always felt a little too fast in the time thigns happened (such as food and recovery during sleep)

rob3034 wrote:1. champions with no fighter skills in ST version can both 'swing & chop' with an axe, in RTC you need to gain a few skill levels to be able to 'chop'

Interesting, the intrinsic fighter level required for a chop is level 3. I wonder if this is a hidden skill thing (someone with a better knowledge of the DM engine will have to answer this one; RTC uses a completely different underlying model for XP).

rob3034 wrote:2. it gets dark ALOT quicker in ST version, on 1st level after hall of champions gets dark very fast, need lots of light spells to keep the dungeon light, every time you sleep and re-awake the dungeon is dark. In RTC think 1 or 2 light spells keeps you going until level 4 or 5.

4. food and water seems to run out much faster in ST version, im almost out of food on ST version, doesnt seem to be a problem on RTC.

As beowuuf mentioned, CSBWin runs too fast. I'd be interested to know how RTC compares to the original ST though.

rob3034 wrote:3. Spells "fly" much higher in RTC than they do in ST version.

That's deliberate - spells in RTC fly at the height of the fireball holes (which I think is right), rather than lower (which I think looks odd).

rob3034 wrote:sorry if these seem petty. but they are differences, just letting you guys know.

They're not petty - I've had far worse

ok guys, its interesting that you think im using CSBwin, im not.

Im using steem (an ST emulator, as im sure you know), with an ST disk image of DM. so it runs exactly as an ST does.

so im not sure about the "speed" thing you guys mention, but im sure you know more than i do, lol


good idea with the fireball holes!! (just noticed a diff, and thought id say).

i will continue playing an mention any other details i can find!!!! (sorry, i have a good eye for detail, as all my mates always say)

Interesting, not played anything except DM briefly under an amiga emulator ages ago, and being too fast was not an issue!

Can I suggest you play CSBwin as it's quite fast and easy to use : )

rob3034 wrote:Im using steem (an ST emulator, as im sure you know), with an ST disk image of DM. so it runs exactly as an ST does.

so im not sure about the "speed" thing you guys mention, but im sure you know more than i do, lol :)

Oooh - I don't think anyone's done that before; it'll be good to see what you can find!

Oooh - I don't think anyone's done that before; it'll be good to see what you can find!

didnt expect you to say that george!!!! though thats where you got all your info for RTC from??????

It's all from memory

(and numerous iterations of people pointing out the differences between their memory and mine until it settled on a compromise between us all!)

rob3034 wrote:so im not sure about the "speed" thing you guys mention, but im sure you know more than i do, lol :)

How fast is your emulated ST running?

When you start up STEem, what's does it say the CPU speed is? It should be 8 MHz - if it's any faster, then you're running too quickly and so it's no wonder that the light / food is running down so rapidly!

thats impossible!!!!!!! surely.....
im gobsmacked.

when you play them side by side, monsters, details, doors, food, keys, puzzles its pretty much identical!!!

if you did all that from memory your an amazing guy!!!!!

wht about all the puzzles, monster generators and triggers etc, theres no way of know that from simply playing the ST version, did you make it all up for RTC???

rob3034 wrote:thats impossible!!!!!!! surely.....
im gobsmacked.

when you play them side by side, monsters, details, doors, food, keys, puzzles its pretty much identical!!!

if you did all that from memory your an amazing guy!!!!!

wht about all the puzzles, monster generators and triggers etc, theres no way of know that from simply playing the ST version, did you make it all up for RTC???

LOL - I wrote an editor for the the save game files before I wrote RTC (DMute - see http://ragingmole.com/DMute ) and so could see the maps etc without actually playing the game - my memory isn't that good!

Oh, and there were *alot* of iterations

ive already checked all the ST specs.

its running a standard 8Mhz ST with 1mb ram (just as mine was).

ps, off to bed now so reply tmro

CSBwin runs as fast as the Atari St was
supposed to run with a 60 Hertz monitor.
The low CPU speed may have have affected
the speed when a lot of monsters were moving
about on the same level. But the vertical
retrace clocked the game. In England you may
have had 50 Hertz power and, therefore, 50
Hertz monitors. The game would have run more
slowly there than in the USA.

All of this has been said before when people
in Europe complained that the worms moved too
fast for them. So I added a capability of going
slower or faster. (Early versions also had a
10 vs 11 vertical interupt counter error that caused
it to go 10 percent too fast. The old zero vs one
problem.)

I have no idea how Steem emulates the vertical
retrace nor whether there is a parameter for it.
But, for the emulator to work at all it must emulate
both vertical and horizontal retrace interrupts.
God help you if it is using your physical monitor
to generate timing for the emulated monitor!!!!

I sort if understand what your saying??!?!?

so basically it could be my monitor update speed thats make the game appear to run faster?

your mintor speed actually making the game run faster ... just like the same shows in britain can be faster than american shows because of the 24 and 25 frames per second

hey Rob3034, in technical documentation on DM/CSB encyclopedia. check out "The game clock" info:

http://www.dianneandpaul.net/CSBwin/Tec ... aneous.htm

ok, thanks i will do.

Remember a while ago we were all talking about the speed that Steem (ST emulator) runs at in relation to monitor update speeds and other factors?

ive been talking to the STEem programmers, and they say that STEem runs at exactly the same speed an ST ran at by default and no adjustments are required (ie it doesnt matter about monitor refresh rate and CPU speeds)

so when you play Dungeon master on Steem it should be exactly as it was all those yrs ago

it doesnt matter about monitor refresh rate

Does it allow you to select the emulated monitor
refresh rate? 60 Hertz US vs 50 Hertz Europe?

Where is 50 Hertz used????? Just curious. And
220 volts? Where is that used?

50 hertz was used as a default frequency for PAL or SECAM tv sets.
but flat screens are less expensive than before.. things are changing.
220 volts is the standard in all european countries, well, i think it must be.

in Poland 220 V was used from I remember. But in the last years there was a minor change to 230 V. That`s because 230 V is a standard in EU electricity system (I`m not sure about UK and Greece).
But in real life voltage usually changes, there`s never EXACTLY 230 V in wall sockets (sometimes 225, sometimes 235).

There`s no problem with old (220 V) devices, they work well in new 230 V system. Incandescent lamps etc.

The european main electricity standard is all a big fudge. Historically, places such as the UK ran at 240 Volts whereas much of the continent (including Poland so it seems) ran at 220 Volts.

Some faceless body at the European Standards commission didn't like this and thought that the voltages should be standardised across the EU. Obviously this met with outcry from all the constituent countries of having to change all their supplies.

So...the solution...

The EU now define the mains electricity to be 230 Volts with a tolerance of plus or minus 10% (i.e. approx 210-250 Volts) and none of the countries has actually changed anything apart from what they called it.

Well, some newer european devices are running at 230 V, at least in Germany, but - as George already pointed out - many other don't. Of course, basically a 220 V device will usually run at 230 V too without any obvious error, but, depending on the device, many of these devices will have their lifetime significantly shortened. I suppose some people making decisions in the EU think that this will sort out the problem in a couple of years. Basically its the same tactics as delaying the cases of WW-II victims or victims of nuclear contamination due to oldish radar equipment - eventually there will be no case left to talk about (but of course the Voltage issue is not as severe as the human one).

erm. to the chop thingy:
the axe is an awesome weapon because it provides you with
a free chop attack. For the sword's chop you will have to have
an apprentice level.. I guess delta is similar to the axe in terms of
chop and maybe the hardcleave , too, but I cannot tell for sure

Well, nobody answered the question about
whether Steem allows you to specify the
emulated monitor refresh rate. So another
question......what is the emulated refresh rate
in Steem???? The answer will determine the
speed at which the program runs.

ive spoke to the writers of STeem, they say that it doesnt matter, steem by default runs at the SAME speed as an ST did

Yep, but an ST ran at a different rate depending on where in the world you are.

Not different STs, *the same* ST, would run at different speeds...

ok ive asked them that question