Dungeon Master Forum

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:19 am**

Greetings,

The DM Encyclopedia points to an address where updated graphics for RTC are to be found, but I can't locate them. Can anyone suggest an alternative download site?

"Have a look at Cowsmanaut's Dungeon Master web site for a new set of graphics for RTC."

http://chaos.zpc.cz/

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:43 am**

It was referenced in the creative endeavours forum:
http://chaos.zpc.cz/files.html

I'm afraid none of us have gotten around to group together anything graphics wise into a thread, and I don't think there is much around yet. A search of the creative, editing and editor forum might reveal some stuff...

If you are happy with low res graphics, there might be things references in the CSBwin forum, which does have the start of a stickied thread

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:01 am**

Thanks,

I found a link to that earlier, but wasn't able to get any of the files to download. There was discussion that the graphics were not complete, which is fine - I was just enticed by the screenshots here:

http://chaos.zpc.cz/dungeon.html

I hoped that at least the walls, floors, and ceilings were available.

I'll look in the CSBwin area. The low resolution graphics are not my biggest concern, rather, it is the low color. I assume walls and floors were limited to something like 16.

I wonder if the 256 color tiles from the PC version of Dungeon Master II could be converted for use with RTC?

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:12 pm**

Crash. wrote:I wonder if the 256 color tiles from the PC version of Dungeon Master II could be converted for use with RTC?

You haven't investigated it enough. RTC already has DM2 for PC provided in the standard package, along with all the 256 colour graphics...

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:18 pm**

That's not quite what I meant. I would like to know if it is possible to use the dungeon graphics tiles from DMII (which are probably not complete) for DM and CSB dungeons.

I'm interested in improving the appearance of all of the dungeons other than DMII, which already has 256 color graphics.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:36 pm**

I'm confused.

I wonder if the 256 color tiles from the PC version of Dungeon Master II could be converted for use with RTC?

This says "Can I use the PC 256 colour graphics in RTC?". The answer is yes, it's already been done. To use the 256 colour graphics in RTC versions of DM and CSB, simply use the .TXT file provided for those dungeons and update it to use the new imagery. It's a bit of a job, but perfectly possible already.

If you don't mean this, then I have no idea what you're talking about!

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:09 pm**

I would actually like to play DM2 on RTC with the original Amiga graphics -- they're less cartoony and have the "look & feel" that is more consistent with the original DM/CSB.

Has someone gotten around to creating an alternate set of graphics.dat files that can be substituted for the ones that come with RTC so DM2 runs with the Amiga pictures? Or is it not as simple as that? It would be preferable to have a completely separate RTC module for the alternate version of DM2, but creating it would probably be much more labor-intensive, since each and every single graphic would have to be substituted.

Marco.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:32 pm**

RTC doesn't work like that -- the .dat files are core files and can't be updated by users, only the author, George Gilbert.

However, you can use the RTC editor's Replace Graphics system to replace the PC DM2 graphics with the Amiga ones.

Create a copy of the DM2.TXT file and work from that. Using the editor's Add/Replace graphics options, you should see how the process works. It would be a bit time consuming, but easier than doing what Crash is asking for -- that would require lots of what RTC calls 'Cloning' and is a much, much more complex and larger job.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:20 pm**

From what I can tell with RTC, the procedure is to edit/create the *.txt file that defines the dungeon. I too was hoping to be able to substitute higher quality graphics in the *.dat file, so that every dungeon would use them without me needing to manually edit each one.

Here's what I did so far, by replacing the texture names for the original Dungeon Master with those for DM2.

Some of the graphical elements are not available in DM2, so older ones would still have to be used. Also, I didn't plan to mess with the monsters or objects, just the environment.

I'll have to look around to see if there is a way to edit the *.dat files instead.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:49 pm**

You can't edit the .dat files. The format is proprietary to RTC core and is not intended to be messed about with by end users.

The method you're using is exactly what you'd need to do. It's time consuming, sure, but the only way I'm afraid.

Have you looked in the DM2 .txt file fully? You'll see there is a section for different wallsets. You can copy the ones you want into your own .txt file and then use the wallset in your own dungeons. Is that what you're doing?

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:14 pm**

migrating Sukumvit from DM to DM2 look took me about 30 minutes using what Gambit suggests with the add/replace function of any advanced text editor (i use notepad++ for example) for stairs, pits, ceiling, alcoves, wallitems... Simply add "_DM2" or "_STONE" to any item you want to migrate... Check how it is done in DM2.txt.
if you plan to use *Amiga* DM2 wallset and items, that's another story..

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:40 pm**

The tricky part is figuring out what to do with items that do not have counterparts in DM2 such as the doors with windows in them, lion/medusa fountain, etc... probably why no one has done the total conversion yet.

Hmm... I'll have to dump the graphics from both games and see what the scope of this will be.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:06 pm**

Some time around December/January, there was some talk around here about creating a verstion of DM2 with the Amiga graphics for use with RTC. I remember George Gilbert stating that he wasn't planning on doing this, but there were a few other people interested in generating the alternate version. Has anything been done with this?

Marco.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:14 pm**

Not as far as I know. It's not a difficult task though, assuming you have the extracted graphics from the Amiga version. Oh look... what's this? Seems to be a thread where I posted the Amiga DM2 graphics...

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=26465

As I noted above, you'd just make a copy of DM2.TXT to work from, then use RTC Editor's Replace Graphics feature to import all the Amiga versions into your text file, effectively overwriting the PC versions. There will be issues with size differences, but that's the hardest thing you'll need to deal with -- the rest should be easy.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:27 pm**

I assume you're referring to the conversion of creature graphics from the Amiga version, or are all of the graphics different? I have noticed that the creature graphics from the Amiga version of DMII are less cartoonish and would be preferable.

I'm personally more motivated to update DM and CSB, since both versions of DMII already have improved graphics.

I did manage to download Cowsmanaut's graphics, which fortunately fill in some of the gaps left by DMII. I'll have to see what I can assemble. So far, I've been able to place the nice Lion fountain and a few other things, although the windows on doors are not transparent.

It would be best if I could somehow change the content of the graphics.dat files so that all of the RTC dungeons would benefit from improved graphics.

It looks like I need to find a tool to export all of the graphics from DMII (to BMP files with correct names), then I can create a [New - Bitmaps] REPLACE section that can be pasted into each dungeon .txt file, eliminating the search and replace process for each individual instance of a graphic object.

Can anyone recommend a tool that will do this? So far, the ones I have tried either scramble the colors, do not export all files (only one at a time), or export the files in a different format or only with numbered file names.

If the graphics from the Amiga version can be exported in this way, they too can be substituted in this way.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:00 pm**

Gambit37 wrote:You can't edit the .dat files. The format is proprietary to RTC core and is not intended to be messed about with by end users.

The method you're using is exactly what you'd need to do. It's time consuming, sure, but the only way I'm afraid.

Have you looked in the DM2 .txt file fully? You'll see there is a section for different wallsets. You can copy the ones you want into your own .txt file and then use the wallset in your own dungeons. Is that what you're doing?

I used the wallset section for that part of it, but for the doors, ornates, and other items, I'm not sure how to do the replacements from the RTC editor. I started to search and replace names in the txt file, which quickly got messy.

With access to the image files in BMP format, I can easily do the replacements. Perhaps I'm still missing something with regard to how the editor is intended to work. If I try to replace an image, it gives me the option to browse for a file, but I don't (yet) have the individual BMP image files from DMII to choose from.

Posted: **Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:41 pm**

Crash. wrote:I assume you're referring to the conversion of creature graphics from the Amiga version, or are all of the graphics different? I have noticed that the creature graphics from the Amiga version of DMII are less cartoonish and would be preferable.

All the Amiga images are different... but similar

. What this means is, for example, the outside bush graphics are the same design as the PC version, but are drawn with many fewer colours, and so look more like the original DM graphics than the cartoony style of the PC version. But there are major other differences -- some creatures are COMPLETELY different -- the Axemen, Archer Guards, Tiger Worms, etc.

Crash. wrote:It would be best if I could somehow change the content of the graphics.dat files so that all of the RTC dungeons would benefit from improved graphics.

As noted previously, this can't be done with any tools -- and there's really no point investing energy in trying to see how to do it. The point of RTC editing is that you don't touch the core files, you instead ADD images that can be assigned to NEW items/monsters or assigned to REPLACE existing items/monsters.

Crash. wrote:It looks like I need to find a tool to export all of the graphics from DMII (to BMP files with correct names), then I can create a [New - Bitmaps] REPLACE section that can be pasted into each dungeon .txt file, eliminating the search and replace process for each individual instance of a graphic object.

No tools exist to create DM2 files with the correct names for RTC. It's a manual job. Won't take you long.

You can get the bitmaps from the link I posted earlier.

Crash. wrote:Perhaps I'm still missing something with regard to how the editor is intended to work. If I try to replace an image, it gives me the option to browse for a file, but I don't (yet) have the individual BMP image files from DMII to choose from.

See further up in the thread for links to the bitmaps. However, They are in the original exported format from the original game and all graphics need to be doubled in size for RTC...

You can probably now begin to understand why nobody has bothered doing this before...

It's not really difficult, just very, very time consuming...

Posted: **Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:22 am**

Gambit37 wrote:You can probably now begin to understand why nobody has bothered doing this before... It's not really difficult, just very, very time consuming...

*sigh*

That was more or less the impression I got when this topic last came up about 8 months ago.

Marco.

Posted: **Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:24 am**

As a help, I've batch converted all the images to double size using Photoshop. I'll upload a new zip tomorrow.

Posted: **Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:15 am**

Hi, thanks for the help, but I already converted all of the images to double size BMPs. Now it is a matter of choosing from and renaming what I need from the ~4000 files, which may take quite some time.

I've pleaded with the author in case he has already done this work, as that would allow me to work on things like editing and compositing images that aren't available in DM2.

I have a list of all of the graphic items and filenames for RTC, but it might be helpful if I could find the list of items specific to DM and CSB.

Anybody have such a list?

I would hate to get to level 7 only to find I forgot something that would have been easy to include. Changes to the dungeon graphics seem to break the save-games.

Posted: **Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:33 am**

i suggest you to convert the BMP in PNG, which is a lighter format.
for items list, i would parse DM.txt and CSB.txt with a little perl script or any other good string processing language.
but i'm pretty sure that Paul or George have such a list.

about the save-game problem, here's a common solution for playtesting : take a very powerful test character and change the initial party location.

Posted: **Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:51 am**

So I've done a lot of what I was intending to do with regard to making up the missing graphics between DM and DM2.

It occurs to me that one thing that would be very convenient is the ability to REPLACE with items already in the graphics*.dat files. For example, since I'm trying to replace the DM graphics with DM2 graphics, rather than making individual bitmap files for each one that I want to replace, I wish I could just specify which ones to use.

The replace lines end up like this:

REPLACE BITMAP_FLOORITEM_STAIRSUP_FRONT1 FILE=(Data\New Graphics\FLOORITEM_STAIRSUP_DM2.png) SIZE=(304,204) POSITION=(0,190) SCALINGS=(1) TRANSPARENT=(FALSE) SHADED=(FALSE)

As you can see, this points at a png file; however, this is fairly silly since that graphic is in the graphics.dat files already. I don't suppose there is a way to point to that one?

From the RTC editor, the choice to replace a bitmap points at an external file, however it would be useful in this case to use internal data too.

Posted: **Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:27 am**

in that case, you don't have to REPLACE the graphics but the DM ITEMS themselves in all the dungeon by their DM2 equivalent.
for that, use your favorite editor as explained above.

Posted: **Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:45 am**

Yup, it's search and replace in the actual dungeon data if you want to do that. The editor doesn't support it, but any decent text editor will do.

For example, to replace all apples with DM2 apples, you search for all instances of FOOD_APPLE and replace it with FOOD_APPLE_DM2.

Posted: **Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:53 am**

Yes, although this is exactly the kind of task that most people are not willing to do; hence; the lack of any conversion of DM dungeons that use DMII graphics (that I know of).

What I am trying to do is create a block of text that can be pasted into any dungeon, along with a set of graphic files for the RTC folder, which will allow painless conversion from DM to DMII graphics. I'm trying to do all of the work at once, so that any other dungeon can instantly benefit from the effort without requiring the potentially hazardous search and replace shuffle.

Unfortunately, I'm wasting a lot of time extracting DMII graphics that are already in RTC.

I'm mired in things like the stairway parts, pit parts, offset views of doorframes, etc...

Oh well.

Posted: **Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:06 pm**

Don't get disheartened, you're doing an excellent job. None of the rest of us had the patience to do it.

If you feel you're getting bogged down, leave it for a while and come back to it in a few days -- I find that works wonders for enthusiasm on repetitive or dull work.

BTW, I've updated the custom resources thread with double sized graphics of DM2 for RTC -- might help, though you said you'd done this now.

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 7726#77726

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:33 am**

Gambit37 wrote:Yup, it's search and replace in the actual dungeon data if you want to do that. The editor doesn't support it, but any decent text editor will do.

Greetings,

I may have found something interesting. There does appear to be some provision for replacement/substitutions from sections of the dungeon.txt files such as [Graphics - Inventory]

After some experimentation, I determined that additions can be made to this section to supplement entries that may not be covered by the editor, for example:

Code: Select all

ICON_EXIT........=(BITMAP_INVENTORY_ICON_EXIT_DM2)
ICON_SAVE........=(BITMAP_INVENTORY_ICON_SAVE_DM2)
ICON_SOUND.......=(BITMAP_INVENTORY_ICON_SOUND_DM2)
ICON_SLEEP.......=(BITMAP_INVENTORY_ICON_SLEEP_DM2)

It seems that each graphic type needs to be in the correct area, for example, the items above did not work when placed in the [Graphics - Misc] section.

Does anyone know if there are additional section headings that can be used for other types of graphics such as dungeon graphics and items? If so, this will greatly decrease the number of image files that have to be duplicated in order to upgrade to DMII quality.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:05 am**

Dunno. I've never looked into it, I doubt anyone else has either. I think you're probably the expert in this area now...

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:07 am**

Hee-hee! Perhaps the author will chime in on this

Dungeon Master Forum

Where to find updated graphics for RTC

Where to find updated graphics for RTC