Dungeon Master Forum

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:40 pm**

My workplace "inappropriate-at-job-firewall"

has blocked the QOTW page when I tried to read it.

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:24 pm**

Really? But all it mentions are hens, and the normal loving interactions of various people, and mophus....

Oh, nm...

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:32 pm**

And it's all thanks to me. I should be banned.

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:42 am**

(Again).

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:31 am**

And...why does this come as a surprise???

Crazy folks, a little warped, still raving about a 1/4 of a century old game.

Oh WHY don't they do a "three-qual" for us? Perhaps something to do with "some WAY POWERFUL" sorcerer, who taught the original good guy to split his personality.

Well, I'd settle for about anything.

(go ahead MasterWuuf, beat that dead dog into life)

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:32 pm**

Actually, DM is just over 1/5 of a century old -- the ST version came out on 18th December 1987.

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:23 pm**

ARGHHH, my ears are bleeding....don't use the "ST" word....calm down...breath easy...Amiga, amiga, amiga, amiga, amiga, amiga, amiga, amiga ....that's better.

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:09 pm**

ok, let's ban this one

Posted: **Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:26 pm**

Well, the Amiga version WAS better...

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:56 am**

Now the mystery is revealed.

-That's- why Trantor gets banned all the time.

("don't give AIDS a chance". Picture taken from the TNT 5 demo)

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:30 am**

If you ignore the over-20-year-old debate which system is/was better, with the very thoughtful and eloquent answer always being "The one I have", and just look at both versions objectively, there is actually no doubt that the Amiga version was superior, if only for one added feature: moster steps. I don't know about you, but if I wander around an unknown area and hear monsters crawling somewhere, with the sound effects becoming louder and louder as they approach me, the atmosphere becomes a lot more tense and exciting. If I play the ST version with all those sneaky silent monsters, something is just lacking in the atmosphere department.

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:18 pm**

The Amiga always has been the better gaming computer.

And there is no "but".

Except maybe... DM came out a year earlier.

How much I dream of having such an experience again.
Your first potion brewed. That first gulp. That little fireball. That running away from the ghost.
And having played it for more than a year, facing the dragon and turning off the computer in fear.

Posted: **Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:59 am**

Atari ST rulez !

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:04 am**

ahhh.. finally

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:00 am**

Psssffftfstfs!

Amiga Rules!

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:16 pm**

of course "she" rules, for 1000 francs (100 £) more than the ST ...

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:50 am**

uh, I noted here in canada, the cost difference was negligable, and yet, I expected a far greater difference from the ST to the Amiga. Since, I had stereo sound, more memory, the ability to display up to 4096 colours at once. I mean... seriously! You want more for less?

There is something to be said about a computer which was used to make 3D FX for a number of big budget movies and TV shows, it was also used in a large number of music videos. The Amiga was used in a large number of music studios as well for musical purposes despite the Atari's claim to having a midi preinstalled in their computer.. if you only get mono out.. I say what the hell is the point?? Danny Elfman did most of his early movie music with it. The Amiga motherboard was the basis for 90% of the top arcade machines out there during the day. So if you went out to play streetfighter in the arcade, you were playing on an Amiga and not even knowing it.. Let's add to that that NASA had a large number of Amiga computers for their space programs. Let's face it.. the Amiga had an impressive resume. However, it simply had a poor marketing team.. who thought word of mouth is all they ever needed

Psygnosis in a few of their games (and some other companies did this as well) hid jabs at the ST in the amiga versions of the games. I remember one having an ST sitting in the trashbin next to the desk. Some kind of point a click adventure.

Can't remember the name though...

I could keep going.. but only one more fact really needs to be pointed out. The Amiga still lives after all these years, and keeps getting new hardware and OS updates to this very day.. where's the Atari?

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:50 am**

Psygnosis...I think they did either the Discworld or Simon the Sorcerer games...both were point-and-click puzzlers (and were both cool

). Possibly it was one of those?

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:46 pm**

well, the Atari Logo appears when starting Neverwinternights or so.. it has not survived bodyly like the amiga but corporationally(spiritual).. or so

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:28 pm**

We had Amiga logos on ESCOM computers before they went bankrupt. Now there's Atari logos on Infogrames games until they go bankrupt as well sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:27 pm**

Lucky you, guys, with your Atari x Amiga "problems". You cannot imagine how difficult it was to get ANY western hardware (not talking about software) in the communist Czechoslovakia before the Velvet Revolution in 1989. I remember my uncle smuggling Atari ST in 1988 (at least I think it was in 1988) across the Iron Curtain (from West Germany), bribing all the armed men on the borders, and risking serious problems... and making us the kings of the town! (luckily, he didn't forget to smuggle also some games, DM was one of them...).

Before that, we'd had a second-hand Atari 800XL, and I think we were the only family in our district to have such a GREAT machine... (by the way, I still have this 800XL at home, and I think it still works... - a miracle I think).

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:38 pm**

ha! I can imagine that Jan, although it was a bit better in Poland. As far as I can remember (I was born in `79), not many of my friends had personal computers in 80s:
- In the mid 80`s there were Atari2600-like machines, but most popular was 8-bit machines like ZX Spectrum,
- In the late 80`s there were most popular C-64 and A-500 among my friends. Not many of them had AtariST, it was unpopular in Poland.

But, all in all, no matter the prizes, in the late 80s computers (in general) became extremally popular here. I think the explosion became in `87. But 3/4 of my friends still had 8 bit machines because of the prizes. But you`re right Jan; in `87-`88 there were only two computer magazines in the market!!! (now there are dozens of them).

I remember my uncle smuggling Atari ST in 1988

are you sure? did you had some restrictions as for the hardware? in 1988? I know for sure that in `88 AtariST were avaliable even in Poland for unbelievable high prizes (though Amiga500 was always much more popular here than AtariST).

Code: Select all

Late 1980s: PC era
Yugoslavia:
The second half of the 1980s saw the rise of popularity of IBM PC compatible and, to a somewhat lesser degree, Amiga and Atari ST computers. Domestic computer hardware manufacturers produced a number of different IBM PC compatibles, such as TIM and Lira but their "success" was limited to government-owned companies that were required to purchase only domestic technology.

The grey market once again allowed foreign technology to become dominant amongst individual buyers and software piracy continued to thrive until the break-up of the country in the 1990s.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:52 pm**

http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/05/03/0016.php
1990:

Code: Select all

PD JOURNAL:  Another major topic at the CeBIT press conference were
 computer sales in the Eastern block countries.  Have there been already
 talks about software distribution in these countries?  Atari will place
 their computers on the DDR market - but what about the software?  

 A.STUMPF:  There are official ditribution ways, through Forum, and
 naturally a lot of stuff has been and will be bought privately in West
 Germany and then brought over the now open boarder.  This is similar to
 the hardware sales.  Officially we sold so far between 2.000 and 3.000
 computers in the DDR.  But this figure does not say anything.

 PD JOURNAL:  Another interesting market seems to be Poland.  The figure
 of 100.000 Atari Computers being sold there last year speaks for itself.
 
 A.STUMPF:  Yes, among these were 40.000 STs and the other 60.000 were
 Atari 8-bit computers.  We are very strong in Poland.  Since years in
 Poland there existed a so called unofficial shadow market functioning on
 the valuta-bases.  I believe that we are the leading computer force on
 the normal, private market in Poland, not in the high end market.  There
 exist evaluations that we cover about 80% of that market. 

 PD JOURNAL:  How did Atari solve the problem of converting the foreign
 currencies that always exists when dealing with Eastern block countries?

 A.STUMPF:  We only made either straight valuta-deals or so called
 boarder-deals.  All you need therefore is a little time.  That way we
 sold computers to Bulgaria, to Yugoslavia and even to the USSR.
 
 PD JOURNAL:  What role did the language barrier play?  In the DDR that
 was no problem but what about the German TOS in Poland.  Does a polish
 TOS exist?

 A.STUMPF:  The main expressions have been translated.  I am sure there
 exists a Polish TOS - it is not an official one and it's just a disc
 version.

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:21 pm**

Yeah, the regime was a bit softer in Poland - Czechoslovakia and Albania were the most hard-core communist regimes in the late 1980s.

We could either buy western hardware in weird "Tuzex" shops (very weird thing indeed) or to "smuggle" them from Austria or West Germany. Actually, it was not a real smuggling, but you had to either hide the computer, or to bribe the policemen in order to avoid a high taxation (in better case) or confiscation (worst-case scenario). Or, thirdly, you could get western computers if you had connections to the communist establishment (which was not our case).

But, all in all, it was extremely difficult to get a western computer if you were not from Prague or from a communist family (which I was not).

In Czechoslovakia, some 8bit computers were produced as well (e.g. PMD 85, IQ 151, Didaktik - a ZX Spectrum illegal clone etc.), but their performance was extremely poor (these were more heating machines than anything else).

But... yeah, we could talk about this subject for hours and hours, but I think your experiences are very similar.

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:31 pm**

But despite this, Czechs and Slovaks managed to get a surprisingly great number of western computers. The most favorite were probably Commodore and 8bit Atari (and maybe also ZX Spectrum).

Another thing was software - I think there is no need to stress that 99 % of games were illegally copied... I remember the huge piles of cassette tapes on my table... and that was very expensive to get an empty cassette (one was for about 100 or 150 CZK - a new car Skoda was for about 50.000 CZK in these times - so it was one car for 500 cassettes or so...).

(also I might by mistaken by my poor memory)

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:41 pm**

Ahh...the ZX-80 & ZX-81 ruled!

I'm I the only person to have played on the GS?

Dungeon Master Forum

This forum is officially RUDE.

This forum is officially RUDE.