Dungeon Master Forum

Version: 1.1 for RTC V0.49
Platform: RTC
Author: Zed5Duke
Date published: 2010, January 12
Date last updated: 2010, January 16

Story:
You are travelling to Darkmoon on business passing through a forest to town, but the heavy rain with rolling thunder disorientates you. You lose your way and this then makes the journey longer. Finally you encounter an unknown tavern and deicide to enter, rest and drink. It is then you start to hear interesting rumors.

Aim:
There is no ending trigger but a last bonus area. It has an interesting story with a novel finale.

Notes:
About: Lot of new ideas and graphics. Already my most advanced dungeon.
Size: 3 big levels of dungeon battle and 2 levels of adventure
Graphic: Lot of my own plus Dungeon Hack and Daggerfall
Warning: Daggerfall have hot and violent gfx for players 16+
Difficulty: There is no magic, few puzzles, tough monsters

Version 1.1 info: Fixed and improved lot of stuff, compare to first 1.0 relase, and now it should be fully playable.

Download:
Download this dungeon from this Shared OneDrive (in the 'Custom Dungeons' folder)

Wow! Thanks, Zed! I've just looked at it and it looks great! I hope I'll have enough time to play it!

Bugger, so I suppose the Daggerfall images I've used in Maze of Zagor are now not "exclusive" Zed, you are too fast at building dungeons!!! Give the rest of us a chance to get something out before you!!!

Do you spend all your time building dungeons? Do you have a job? I have no idea how anyone can build dungeons this fast unless they are spending ALL their time on it!

Maybe am relasing it too fast, must test it more. I found RTC bug, triggers activate by "each living part member" sometime not work, and must be changed to "party" especially used to open new doors.

I will fix all possible, and in few days should be complete.

Zed, you`re great!!!

Did you think about joining all your dungeons into one? Like you finish one dungeon and go to the next stage with the same party (difficulty rate should be differentiadet of course). Something like a Zed Mega Dungeon Pack One truly giantic dungeon would certainly be better (and more enjoyable) for a players than downloading and playing few smaller one.

I've got to the place with the coin slot and three open doors leading to a larger labyrinth. Looks good so far. I'll go on later.

I had a quick play. Looks nice, but the start doesn't make any sense -- why is the character selection INSIDE the tavern, even though the player has already spoken to people on the way in? And why do all the characters have the same stats?

You could make it far more interesting to actually select the characters that you have standing around. Have you investigated RTCs more complex mechanics yet?

@Zed or anyone: Is there some point in the alcove / altar with the scroll "Oh no, I've lost her forever..." at the first coin slot, or is it just a red herring? I've tried to put there all bones I found, but nothing seemed to happen.

EDIT: And the second altar / alcove with the Orc Head one level bellow - does this have some meaning? I've spent a lot of time carrying bones here and there...

I know how to go on, I'm just curious...

@Gambit: I was also surprised that all the characters have the same statistics. But the dungeon has a good atmosphere, many new inventions and I like it.

EDIT: @Zed: BUG REPORT: The water flasks don't work with the fountains - maybe you're mixing DM1 flasks with DM2 fountains, or I don't know.

It's really an excellent dungeon, it's one of your best, Zed!

Zed, I didn't understand the game ending, if this is ending. How does the game end? I have

Spoiler

paid 10 gold coins to get the girl undressed, now she's naked

- and now what? I also have the fifth Blood Gem (I think it's the same one as the four I put into the slot on the lowest level) and I don't know if there's any use for it - I'd bet not. So what shall I do? Or is this the end? There was no ending sequence / acknowledgement, anything.

EDIT: And I also have another bug report - the final boss (well - if it's a final boss - it's a green... erm... nymph?... shooting strange green/grey hazes) cornered me, but she wasn't able to harm me - she was shooting at me, but didn't cause any damage. Strange. I think you had a similar problem with a final dragon in one of your previous dungeons. Check the mechanics.

Gambit37, yes similar idea was in my mind, but these peoples you talk will later "travell" and change conversations, its made for adventure, not everything for classic style: "take team and enter dungeon, nothing beside fight"

Jan, how large team you played? During test i stuck because trigger not work, and am suppose that activate by "each living part member" work only for one person (for levers and floor pad) it seem like RTC bug, now am changing activate to "hand empty" and "party"

Anyway thanx for bug reports.
-character stats, ok maybe differences are better (replayability)
-water flask: yes mixed dm1 and 2 not compatible
-bones head and stuff is rubbish, and there will be more like items in Ultima
-5th gem, the same, does everything need its purpose? its too obviously
-"i lost her" its vi altar for team ressurection, use own team bones
-finall boss: i think have only distance spell dmg
-game end: there is no ending trigger but last bonus area, ok will change it

I quessed who made this dungeon before even looking into the theard maker name...

Gambit, it's not impossible. It's entirely possible if you just make the dungeon to get it work and don't spend much time styling it. Best speedproducers need only 10-75 times, depending on style, as much time as speedrunners to get a dungeon of simple side done. And with RTC the multiplier is much smaller, something like 4-30 I think.

@Zed: I played with one character only. I always play with one character.

So - this is the end, alright? What "last bonus area" do you mean? This is the area with the women, the naked dancing woman and the coin slot, isn't it?

Anyway, it seems that I've finished the game. Alright.

It was an excellent game. I'll write a review later, when I have some time.

Duckman wrote:Gambit, it's not impossible. It's entirely possible if you just make the dungeon to get it work and don't spend much time styling it.

Well, that was kind of my point -- plus for those of us with full time jobs and busy lives, finding a few hours a week to build dungeons is a very difficult task. I'm assuming that Zed has no such responsibilities, he seems to do nothing but build dungeons!

or is the link to download it???

Oops, Zed must have removed it because he's updating it to a new version. He'll probably put it back in a couple of days.

If you live alone it's actually not that hard if the life's arranged well. For example, out of 16 hours of being awoke, which means 116 huors a week, 44 hours go for work, 40 for work itself and 4 for travels, 72 hours left. 8 go for hobbies and 40 for daily chores, so 24 hours for whatever.

Further note: This was your 17:th dungeon Zed5duke. 15 made by RTC and 2 by CSBbuild. I recommend DMjava for you, it's at least as good speedbuilder as RTC.

Jan, i was sure you played 1 person team, with larger its impossible because trigger will not work, everybody dungeon makers dont use "each living part member" its buged. Am sugest you wait for update and play again, beside fix there will be some changes in puzzles. Yes in v1.0 seem like you complete it.

Raf68, wait few days, i want avoid twenty updates, its better be sure it work.

Gambit37, am not that speedmaker as you thought, many graphics and idea i used from all my previously dungeons. I spend almost month to build 3 playable levels, its not very much. Anyway there are items which first i used in csbwin long ago before touch rtc, so in fact when take everything i spend on it few years.

Duckman, already RTC is my favourite and dont see reason for DMJava. Its true that "styling" take long, but i think that most of time take all mistakes, good design is the key, sometime i design during sleep hah!

Zed5Duke wrote:sometime i design during sleep hah!

Now I understand your talent for producing dungeons - you make them while asleep!

I know I haven't played any custom dungeons for errm..aaaages (and haven't even tried any of yours yet, Zed), but I just wanted to make a suggestion - maybe you should get Beta testers for your future dungeons before you release them. That way you won't (well, you'll be less likely) to release buggy versions which need to be taken down and fixed. I know that if I started playing a dungeon, got halfway through it, got stuck because of a bug, and found I had to start again from scratch, I dunno if I'd be arsed, especially if it was a long, complicated, or difficult dungeon.
Maybe releasing it to just one or two voluntary playtesters first would help eradicate any bugs you missed during your own checking .

Zed5Duke wrote:Jan, i was sure you played 1 person team, with larger its impossible because trigger will not work, everybody dungeon makers dont use "each living part member" its buged.

I think you might be using EACH_PARTY_MEMBER incorrectly, it works for me. Can you explain more about how you are using it? EACH_PARTY_MEMBER is used to filter to multiple relays so that you can do member specific effects -- I think you might have misunderstood what it's for.

Also, remember: You can't use DISABLE_SELF with EACH_PARTY_MEMBER.

Ameena wrote:I just wanted to make a suggestion - maybe you should get Beta testers for your future dungeons before you release them. That way you won't (well, you'll be less likely) to release buggy versions which need to be taken down and fixed.

Yes, very good advice indeed. Zed, we've mentioned this to you before. I know you are a very enthusiastic dungeon builder and like to get your work out as quickly as possible, but that's not much fun for the rest of us when we get stuck due to bugs... It's better to invite playtesters to privately test your dungeons before releasing them; at least these players will understand that it might have bugs.

Ameena wrote:I know that if I started playing a dungeon, got halfway through it, got stuck because of a bug, and found I had to start again from scratch, I dunno if I'd be arsed, especially if it was a long, complicated, or difficult dungeon.

Yes, this is a big issue and kills interest in a dungeon. Adamski's Tower of Champions also suffered from the same problem. But I appreciate it does get much harder to release bug-free dungeons as they get more complex.

I volunteer to be one of the future Zed's betatesters.

*raises his hand*

Hi Zed, just finished this, took about 3 hours to complete - nice dungeon and some good puzzles. It's nice to see some new graphics/monsters. I was confused at the end but I have to say that once you get one or two weapons the monsters become a lot easier and that from the 2nd/3rd level there is some repition - but overall a good experiance and something for a quick release

Thanks for producing these!

just wanted to make a suggestion - maybe you should get Beta testers

Ok, but players dont known what expect so they think that should probably be, for example Jan dont found that coin must disappear after use and its need to use them three to open door, already was possible use only one and you still have it.

Something else, beside fixing am add new inventions to make it more interesting, and this again need testing, in result i could fix one and broke else. Changes are visible, now each level have something different.

Zed5Duke wrote:Ok, but players dont known what expect so they think that should probably be

You don't just give a dungeon to someone and say "Test this" -- you provide a list of the things you want them to test.

Alpha and Beta testing isn't just some quick thing you at the end of a project, you have to plan it and set goals that you want the testers to achieve. And because of this, beta testing is a complete spoiler, so you're only going to get testers who don't mind playing a dungeon that might have bugs.

You can't rush testing and bug-fixing. It's actually the biggest part of any kind of software development, and that's what you're doing when you build a dungeon: you're making software.

lol Gambit, love your optomism around testing. I was a test manager for a few years and one of the things that always got "squeezed" was the testing at the end. However... following good software development and perhaps an agile approach to software development you are indeed right that testing is supposed to be the biggets part.

Yeah, I think Adamski's dungoen has alot of 'playtesting' after release, and there was playtesting before rlease. Yet after a few months we are still at version 3.3 and counting

I agree playesting is good, but we are a small community, alot of people have limited time, and every change to a dungeon need more time for testing. For example, I just haven't been able to pick up the latest versions of Conflux, and I think alot iof it is to do with how massively burned out I got checking out previous versions

I think it's up to the designer to figure out the amout of playtesting first - though I think it only polite to tell us how much playtesting has happened!

Ok finally relased version 1.1 which should be now fully playable.

Beside fixing i improved several elements, and make new funny inventions, these who tryed 1.0 may play it again, worth to see all changes.

Stuck already! I have the key bag, but I acn't find anything to operate the nearby lock.

Where is it exactly? I don't remember now, but I can find it from my nearest save... unless Zed changed it in v1.1.

Tis ok, I figured it