Dungeon Master Forum

Reviews are getting harder nowadays! As time goes by, dungeons are getting more complex in style and the yardstick is changing. Also traditional ideas are getting used up, and we become more accustomed to a way of playing. And certainly less patient! However I will try a give a fair review of what I have seen in the last few days.

Gameplay: 8
I thought it got off to a slow start, but quickly picked up in pace. Towards the end was a frenzy of puzzles, many crossing each others paths in CSB style. A lot to get your teeth into, from classic dungeoneering to some new ideas. Enjoyable to play.

Originality: 8
Always a difficult category to judge, but were some new ideas and fresh twists on existing ideas. The RTC engine was used to good effect in places and in ways I had not seen before.

Craft: 8
The RTC system was well utilized, pushing certain puzzles and gameplay aspects beyond which can generally be achieved with CSBWin. Enjoyed the full screen texts from NPCs, and the temple was particularly well crafted.

Puzzles: 9
Many many puzzles: some very new and unique, others classics - but twisted in a unique way. If you like a dungeon that is based around puzzles, then the last half of this dungeon will delight.

Fights: 6
Needs work I feel. Certain areas seemed to have untamed generators, whilst others were sparse. Most were too easy, especially the funny lizard thing, dragons and monsters at the end. The water demons and some skeleton fights were some of the best I have had though, worked very well. Once I had Anduril no other sword was worth having.

Difficulty: 6
I found the fights rather too easy, easily defeating most monsters, and completed the whole dungeon with just the one character. That said I enjoyed some of the combats, but felt the monsters {and a larger variety of them} would enhance this area. Most puzzles were fun and logical, though a few I felt were somewhat vague ie the priest and the robes, and X marks the spot. Overall a pretty good balance which novice to intermediate players will find rewarding.

Size: 9
Large! The desert and wooded areas add scale at the beginning, while the tower and temple add classic dungeon depth. I did feel it was under nourished in parts - more decor, monsters, items would have added to atmosphere.

Atmosphere: 7
Some parts were very good, but the standard DM graphics did detract in parts, and as above, I felt some areas were rather spartan in items and decor. The illusion forest was a highlight with the path through, the palace has a nice feel while the sheer complexity of the temple added atmosphere in itself. Good storyline, though slightly vague at the end.

Game ending: 8
Simple text ending, for the one I found, but other ending do promise more from the story.

Replayability: 9
The secrets that I missed, and multiple endings will ensure I replay. Keen to try more than one charachter too.

Overall: 8
A great first dungeon, and well worth the wait! Compelling to play, I found myself at the computer for hours at a time exploring and solving puzzles. The experienced player may find it a little easy though, but the starter will love it. Overall a rough diamond: with a little work on the interiors and monsters, and more items to add atmosphere, this has the potential to be one of the top 3 dungeons ever made.

Best part:
Loved the magic mushroom and jumping puzzle, totally unique.

Worst part: some slightly vague areas.

Play it. Now.

Thank you for the review Paul, I'm glad you enjoyed the dungeon! Your review has given me some stuff to think about. I agree that the first half is probably a bit too empty, with the desert and maybe the Screamer Forest being too big with not enough to do in there.

I'm curious if others find the fights too easy and too few as well. Also, I'd like to know which generators are too heavy, could you give specific examples? Gauging difficulty was probably the hardest thing for me to do while building Doom Blade, and I often removed a monster generator for fear of putting the player through too much boredom with repetetive fights. But maybe you are just too hardcore.

I will definitely release an updated version with some bugfixes and will partly address some of the issues you mention. But first, I'd like to get some more feedback, especially regarding fights and difficulty.

Sorry for late reply!

I think some of the problem lies with the monster AI in RTC: it is very basic, and I'd prefer an option on monster generators of 'maximum stacking' so that there can only be a certain amount in the queue to be generated. Unless this is what the 'recharge' feature is!

Areas that I felt were somewhat flooded were the hellhounds in the forest, and zytazes and materializers in their respective areas. I think the occasional harder monster, rather than lots of medium strength ones would work better.

cause my bad english skills, ill review in german..

zuerst einmal: es ist jetzt fast viertel nach 12 und ich muss in bälde wieder aufstehen...ein paar zeilen möchte ich aber unter dem eindruck, das spiel eben beendet zu haben schonmal niederschreiben (ich denke ich werde das morgen nochmal hier und da ergänzen):

es ist das erste custom-dungeon das ich überhaupt zuende gespielt habe! das liegt vor allem daran, dass (leider) alle (?!) dungeon-builder versäumt haben, dem spieler karten an die hand zu geben, und ich -siehe hint-book- nun mal keine sonderlich gute gesamt-übersicht habe. immer und immer wieder durch das bekannte areal zu rennen macht mir nur bedingt spass. kommt dann noch ein wirklich happiger schwierigkeitsgrad dazu erzeugt das bei mir frust.

DB ist insgesamt vergleichsweise entweder übersichtlicher aufgebaut, oder ich habe seit dem ich confluxIII und ToC spielte dazugelernt.
der überwiegende anteil der rätsel war für meine fähigkeiten (ich halte es für wichtig eine derartige aussage bewusst auf mich einzuschränken, dies sei stellvertretend geschehen für alles was ich hier schreibe) logisch und nachvollziehbar, zudem betteten sie sich stimmig ins game ein.
erfreulicherweise wurde zudem darauf verzichtet, garstigen lebensmittel-mangel einzubauen.... eine totsünde in meinen augen!
ich möchte in aller ruhe alles so genau ich mag untersuchen, zudem möchte ich meine charaktere trainieren solange ich spass daran habe und hier nicht eingeschränkt sein mangels essen oder wasser.
technisch (ich habe selbst ein paar levels vor einem jahr gebaut und kann es daher ein stück weit beurteilen) ist das game auf sehr hohem niveau: es hält schritt bzw überbietet das original und ist gleichauf/ein bisschen "schwächer" als ToC (ToC habe ich aber mangels karten/übersicht bisher nicht zuende gespielt).
da ich mir nicht ganz sicher bin, wie hier übrlicherweise punkte vergeben werden, hier meine logik:
Schwierigkeit 10 bedeutet für mich nicht, dass es maximal schwer ist, sondern maximal gut balanced.

gameplay: 9
alles in allem wie oben beschrieben flüssig,stimmig,spitze!
einzig alleine einen wirklichen caster als ersten charakter hätte ich mir gewünscht (wie zb wuuf,tiggy) da ich von beginn an meine party in der reihenfolge: caster,kämpfer,kämpfer,caster (auf diese weise sind die hände der kämpfer beisammen) zusammenstellte.
ich hatte mich für syra entschieden, sie aber aus respekt ob das game unter umständen zu schwer wird nicht reinkarniert. alle 3 weiteren charakter wurden reinkarniert, möglicherweise ist das ein grund warum zyx syra in sachen mana um die hälfte im spielverlauf abhing.
es wurde grösstenteils darauf verzichtet, den spieler mehrfach quer durch die gesamte karte zu schicken.
wichtige punkte hätte man aber noch mehr als vorhanden via teleporter verbinden können (zb aus der stadt zum spider-cave).
die drei ra-wege waren mir insgesamt zu sehr miteinander verschachtelt und verwoben. in den wirren der gänge verbrachte ich sicherlich einige stunden wie in einem irrgarten...linearer aufbau mag ich lieber!
daher hat mir der final test of gatkin (Step-by-step-solution: If you stand in front of the wall text, turn right. You will now face north. Go this way: N-W-W-W-W-N-N-W-W-S-S-S-turn around 180°-S-S-S-W-W-N-N-W-W-N-W-W-N-W-W-S.) nicht gefallen...es ist des guten zuviel. rotationen in jeglicher form einzubauen (drehen,nötige korrekte laufrichtung,teleport etc) finde ich absolut zulässig und gehört in jedes dungeon...aber der weg hier ist doch ein bisschen zu lang: 30 richtige bewegungsabläufe sind too much. am ende des tages ist das lösen eines solchen rätsels eine reine fleissaufgabe...hier wäre eine menge fleiss nötig gewesen, hätte ich das selber lösen wollen (was ich nicht getan habe).
besonders gut hat mir das vorhandensein des gruppenheals gefallen: dieses lästige rumfummeln mit flaschen nervt nämlich! schade aber das der gruppenheal keine wunden und somit geschwindigkeitseinbußen kuriert!
gecured habe ich mich glaube kein einziges mal im ganzem spiel: erstens weil ich faul bin, zweitens trainiert der poison-schaden offenbar den fighter skill... hatte mehrfach fighter gain, obwohl niemand in der nähe war während einer vergiftung

orginalität: 7
hier war ToC eine ganze ecke kreativer (dafür aber im gameplay ecken schlechter, da mir zu schwer und vor allem unübersichtlich)... das klingt aber bei weitem schlechter als es gemeint ist: ich bin zum teil geradezu fassungslos, was sich user so einfallen lassen. es ist wirklich sehr sehr schwer bis unmöglich nach so vielen jahren in sachen orginalität mit wirklich neuem um die ecke zu kommen...die 7 punkte halten daher in der gesamtlogik gebührenden abstand zur 9 des gameplays.
besonders gut hat mir gefallen:
-das man aus "puddle" seine wasserflaschen auffüllen kann- im grunde simpel, aber schlicht kreativ und quer gedacht- denn eigentlich ist das naheliegend.
-das dazugehörige rästel, dass mich überhaupt erst auf das entdecken dieses umstandes gebracht hat
- das hintbook -auch wenn es ausdrücklich kein programmierter bestandtteil des spiels ist- ist überaus originell und zudem sehr benutzerfreundlich.
-diese "moonstainer"...habe ich so noch nicht gesehen (ok...ist auch kein wunder mangels erfahrung). hier habe ich aber ein speziellen sinn vermisst.
man wurde mit diesen dingern geradezu zugemüllt und ich habe kein einziges benutzt...das gameplay hätte mich eingebettet in ein nettes rätsel dazu zwingen sollen, um die originalität zu unterstreichen, gleichzeitig wäre ich nicht ganz so inflationär damit umgegangen.
-die gesamte musik ist einfach extrem originell gewesen...ich frage mich wirklich, wie man überhaupt an so zeugs kommt
-der "luft-aufzug": spitze!
-murshroom... ich hab "nur" 150 jumps benötigt (sieht man im abspann bei weapons) !!!!!!!
-defekte brücke nebst reparatur
-end slavery now


technik:8
ich würde wirklich sehr sehr gerne das editor-save haben,bearbeiten und sehen können: hier liesse sich eine menge lernen. auch hier ist ToC einen hauch besser.

Rätsel:8
am ende (ab inner sanctum) tendenz zur 9. leider kann ich mich an den ganzen anfang nichtmehr erinnern (auch so eine hürde für mich als spieler...ich hab ein gedächtnis wie ein sieb).
einzig das prim-zahl rätsel fand ich weit hergeholt und befremdlich (wenn auch lösbar, sodenn man entweder muttersprachler ist [und daher die vocabel versteht] oder den hinweiss eben übersetzt). es nimmt auch ein stück weit dem spieler, der gefesselt vom spielerlebnis ist, und daher völlig überrascht ingame reallife allgemeinwissen abgefragt zu bekommen, ein stück weit atmosphäre, weil er sich die lösung ergoogeln wird.woher ich das weiss wird nicht verraten, schliesslich bin ich kaufmann!
manche lösungen waren mir instinktiv sofort klar (wie zb die item-beschreibung zum mirror),andere für mich nicht lösbar, wie zb in fire die acht buchstaben. ich glaube aber, dass diese ingame-auffassungsgabe auch dem moment geschuldet ist, denn aus acht buchstaben das wort "ful" zu markieren war eigentlich überaus logisch- in dem moment aber hatte ich nicht auf dem schirm, dass die tatsache des vorhandenseins von acht buchstaben eben nicht zwangsläufig bedeutet, dass diese auch alle genutzt werden müssen.
das Ku,Ros,Neta,Dain rätsel fand ich bei weitem zu schwer...mir kam wohl der umstand zugute, dass (vermutlich, so ganz hab ichs nichtmal nach lesen des hintbooks verstanden) ein und derselbe charakter in allen bereichen der beste war. da ein rätsel im grunde immer ingame lösbar sein sollte würde ich hier einen tip geben.
das rästel des thought (?!) ways zum öffnen der vier pfade: air,water,fire, earth fand ich unglücklich. ich wäre hier im bild des priesters und der flasche (ful-bomb,leere flasche, wasserflasche) geblieben (und hätte halt kurz oder lang vorher ein entsprechendes unique item eingeführt...glas mit humus oder sowas in der richtung)....ich habe hier ewig nachgedacht und auch runen-bedeutungen recherchiert, um herauszufinden welcher trank hier nötig ist. bis ich mich erinnerte (ich nehme an das war design und nicht von mir=zufall) das ich kurz vorher einen einsam und verlassenen stein fand...
das platzieren eines gesuchten (random-) gegenstandes im umfeld des rästels ist ein probates mittel, wortlos einen hinweis zu geben (wie zb der verdorbene käse der mich an ToC erinnerte).

Kämpfe:8
hier bin ich ein bisschen meinungslos....warum?
für mich steht die machbarkeit im fordergrund, und die wiederrum hat extrem mit dem nicht planbarem verhalten des spieler zu tun (zb die frage: trainiert er seine charaktere: ja/nein! nutzt er makros: ja/nein! usw). aus diesem grunde sehe ich die kämpfe mehr als atmosphärenlieferant denn als eigentliche herausforderung. da ich aber trotz makros (und charaktere trainierens) hier und da am ende ins schwitzen geriet vermute ich einen happigen schwierigkeitsgrad.
positiv in erinnerung blieb mir hier die situation im dragon cave mit den beiden drachen.
ich mag es auch, wenn man sich (ohne grosse gefahr) hier und da durch gegner horden mähen kann...da gabs gleich ein paar stellen (ratten,skelettons,knights). [übrigens wurde mir im abspann angezeigt ~ 1700 worms gekillt zu haben...das muss mit inner sanctum zusammenhängen.dauerte auch ewig bis der mechanismus die weggeräumt hatte. ich meine mich erinnern zu können, dass eine zu hohe item anzahl zu problemen führen kann...nicht das hier die gefahr eines crashes besteht]
negativ -und zwar übelst- blieben mir die garstigen wespen nebst der ebene in erinnerung: das ging mir sehr auf die nerven...hier halte ich den monster-generator für der sache nicht dienlich (und zwar weil die wespen keine wirkliche gefahr darstellen und somit halt ab dem zweiten mal nur nerven, und das schlimme daran ist wohl: die sollen einfach nerven!).

Schwierigkeitsgrad: 10
...die logische konsequenz aus allem was ich bisher geschrieben habe: ein zu hoher schwierigkeitsgrad ist der sache nicht dienlich, da er den spieler nur frustet.
sehr angenehm -das sei nochmals erwähnt- sei hier, dass aus mangel kein künstlicher schwierigkeitsgrad generiert wurde. mangel an licht zb fand ich in ToC zwar sicherlich kreativ, aber aufgrund meiner persönlichen fähigkeiten als sehr unangenehme spassbremse.
zu denken hatte ich insgesamt dennoch genug: eine gute mischung aus instantlösung, inne halten, testen/probieren bis hin zum aufgeben und hintbook konsulitieren/füllen.

Grösse: 1
das ergibt sich geradezu zwingend aus allen anderen noten, den spass durch DB zu spazieren würde ich mir gerne noch weitere 100 stunden gönnen!
wenn man dies mal grummelnd ausser acht lässt wird eine realistische 7 draus.

Atmosphäre: 9 (mit musik) 7 (ohne)
wie man sieht wurde hier erfolgreich sehr viel atmosphäre über sound erzeugt. ich sage nur dragon cave.... nur wenig filme haben mich derart in spannung versetzt wie dieser part of the game.
auch diese mönchs-musik (wo war das doch gleich...tower of fustilus?!) war richtig geil. die illusion-forest musik war schrecklich, passte aber total zum thema.
bei einem stück (glaube zb im screamer-forrest) hatte ich den eindruck, dass sie zu früh gekürzt war, bzw zu früh zu loopen anfing: nämlich gerade dann, wenn so ne tolle flöten (?!) melodie begann sprang das ganze zum start.
es wurde zum glück darauf verzichtet, atmosphäre durch viel text (den ich zu lesen und vor allem zu übersetzen zu faul bin) zu erzeugen/erzwingen.

Ende: 10
das muss ich kurz erklären: das eigentlich ende, bzw die zwei enden (...die ich kenne) meine ich damit ausdrücklich nicht!
was will man da gross machen...text, vtl ein bildchen...
was ich meine ist das gefühl, die atmosphäre und die anspannung, die ich ab dem betreten der "inner sanctum" hatte! hier war sofort schon alleine wegen dem aufbau des ganzen klar: man ist auf der zielgeraden! erinnerte mich ein bisschen an mein gefühl das ich als junge hatte, als ich das erste mal das vorletzte level von DMI betrat...einfach klasse!

Wiederspielbarkeit: 5
hier gebe ich die niedrigste punktzahl, weil mir das zweite drittel (diese ra-key geschichte) als auch laufwege zb im desert zu lästig waren, als dass ich mich dieser herausforderung nochmal stellen wollen würde. insgesamt für mich allerdings -und dies sei ausdrücklich erwähnt- der unwichtigste aller kriterien, da ich zum nochmal spielen schlicht nicht neige.
daher denknotwendigerweise eine 5 und somit neutral.

Insgesamt: 9
absolut tolles spiel!
es macht mir lust nach mehr, werde mir vtl nochmal ToC anschauen...oder selber mal wieder weiterbauen!

edit:
paar satzbauten verändert, text hinzugefügt...werde nochmal bisschen durchs dungeon spazieren, weil ich eiegntlich viel mehr beispiele bringen wollte.

Wow, what an extensive review! Thank you very much for playing and writing this much Lai!
If there is interest, I might translate the review into English. Lai, I'm interested which endings you saw. You can PM me if you want. Also, feel free to ask any questions that are left - the hint book will like them.

Be good to translate it and put it on the encyclopaedia reviews

This is Lai's review in English. WARNING: SOME SPOILERS INSIDE!


First of all: It is now 12.15 am and I have to get up soon... but I'd like to write down some lines under the impression of just having finished the game:

It is the first custom dungeon that I finished at all! This is mostly because (sadly) all (?!) dungeon-builders didn't give the player good maps, and my sense of orientation isn't very good. Running through the same known area again and again is limited fun to me. If you combine this with a steep difficulty curve, I am easily frustrated.

DB is either more clearly arranged, or I learned something from playing Conflux III and Tower of Champions.
Most of the puzzles were, for my skills (I think it is important to reduce such a statement to myself; this is true for all that I write here), logical and understandable. Furthermore, they were embedded in a good way into the game.

Fortunately, the game didn't have a lack of food - a deadly sin in my eyes!
I like to examine everything as closely as possible, and I want to train my characters as I long as I feel like it without being handered by a lack of food or water.

Technically (I've built a few levels a year ago so I can say something about this), the game is on a very high level: it tops the original and is on par/a bit weaker than ToC (but I haven't finished ToC yet because of a lack of maps/orientation).

Gameplay: 9
All in all, as described above, fluent, fitting, outstanding!
I would have liked a true caster (like Wuuf or Tiggy) as a first character, since I always choose my characters in this order: caster, fighter, fighter, caster.

I chose Syra, but out of respect of the potential difficulty of the game, I resurrected her instead of reincarnating. All other three characters were reincarnated, which is probably why Zyx had about 1.5 times the mana of Syra.

For the most part, the player doesn't have to cross the whole map repeatedly.
Still, some important parts could have been linked via teleporters (like the city and the spider cave).
The three ways in the Temple of Aram were too intertwined for me. I spent a few hours in these corridors like in a giant maze... I prefer a more linear style!

This is also why I didn't like the final test of Gatkin... It is too much. Rotations of any sort (spinning, correct direction, teleporting etc.) is legitimate and belongs in every dungeon... But here, the way is just too long. 30 correct moves are too much. At the end of the day, solving this puzzle becomes a simple task of effort.

I really liked the ability to heal my whole group, since fiddling around with flasks is annoying! Sadly, group heal does not heal injuries and thus does not help against slowdown either.


Originality: 7
Here, ToC was a lot more creative (but a lot weaker in the gameplay department, since it was too hard and unclear for me)... but that sounds a lot worse than it is meant: I am sometimes speechless what some users come up with. It is really very very hard, if not impossible to come up with something new and original after all these years... The score of 7 keeps a respectable distance to the 9 of the gameplay.

What I especially liked:
- Being able to fill waterskins and flasks through puddles - basically simple, but creative and thought around the corner - because it is actually obvious.
- The according puzzle which just gave me the idea to try it.
- The hint book - even if it is not part of the game itself - is very original and user-friendly.
- The monstainers... I have never seen anything like this before (ok, not surprising, given my lack of experience). But I was missing the real point of this. You were quite spammed with these things and I never used one... The gameplay should have forced me to via a nice embedded puzzle to underline the originality, and less of those would have been better.
- The whole music is just amazingly original... I really wonder how you get stuff like this.
- The "air-lift": great!
- Mushroom... I "only" needed 150 jumps!!!
- Broken bridge and its repairing.


Craft: 8
I'd really really like to see and edit the editor file for this: there is much to be learned. ToC is again a bit better here.


Puzzles: 8
At the end (from the Inner Sanctum on) a tendency towards 9. Sadly I can't really remember the beginning (another problem for me as a player... terrible memory).

Only the prime number puzzle was far-fetched and weird (if solvable if you are a native speaker or translate the hint). It partly takes away from the atmosphere and experience if the player is captured by the game and is asked for some real-life common knowledge all of a sudden, because he will google for the answer.

Some solutions were instinctively clear immediately (like the item description for the mirror), other puzzles were not solvable for me, like the eight letters in the "Fire" room. But I think this was my fault, since the solution was extremely logical - at that moment, I just didn't think about that I might not need all 8 letters.

I think the Ku, Ros, Neta and Dain puzzle was way too hard. I was probably lucky that one of my heroes was the best in all professions. Since a puzzle should always be solvable in-game, I would give a hint to this [Note from Trantor: There IS a hint, though an obscure one. ].

I thought the solution to the puzzle at the beginning of the Way of Thought was unfortunate: Air, Water, Fire, Earth. I would have stayed with the priest theme of flasks (Ful bomb, empty flask, flask of water) and would have added a unique item... a flask with some dirt maybe... I thought about this forever and even researched rune meanings to find out which potion I needed here. Until I remembered (I suppose this was by design and not by me = chance) that I found a lonely stone shortly before...

Placing a useful item in the vicinity of the puzzle in question is a good means of giving a hint without using words (like the rotten cheese which reminded me of ToC).


Fights: 8
I don't really have an opinion here... why?

The most important thing for me is if you can do it, aber that has a lot to do with the non-plannable behaviour of the player (does he train the characters, does he use macros etc.). This is why I see the fights more as a means of atmosphere than as a true challenge. But since I really had a few tough moments near the end - in spite of macros and training -, I suppose the difficulty is quite high.

A positive memory is the situation in the Dragon Cave with the two dragons. I also like when you can just mow through hordes of enemies without real danger... There were a few places like this (rats, skeletons, knights). (By the way, the game told me at the end that I killed about 1700 worms... that has to be connected to the Inner Sanctum. It took a while before the mechanism there took care of them. I vaguely remember that a high number of items can lead to trouble - hope there is no danger of a crash here).

A very negative memory are the Wasps and their level, that really annoyed me... I think the monster generator isn't contributing here (since the wasps pose no real threat and just annoy you from the second time on, and the worst about it is probably: they are MEANT to be annoying!).


Difficulty: 10
(Since I am not sure how this score is usually given, here's my logic: Difficulty 10 for me does NOT mean that it is maximum hard, but maximum well balanced!)

...the logical consequence of all what I wrote so far: a too high difficulty isn't good since it will only frustrate the player.

What's very pleasant - this shall be mentioned again - is that there is no artificial difficulty created via a lack of something. A lack of light in ToC was certainly creative, but because of my skills, it was an unpleasant nuisance.

I had enough to think about: a good mix of instant solution, stopping, testing and giving up and consulting/filling the hint book.


Size: 1
This score is forced from all the other scores, I'd like to give myself another 100 hours of walking through DB!
If you take this out, you end up at a realistic 7.


Atmsophere: 9 (with music) / 7 (without)
As you can see, a lot of good atmosphere was successfully created via sound. I only say Dragon Cave... few movies have put me under tension such as this part of the game.
Also this monk-music (in the Tower of Fastilus?!) was really great. The illusion forest music was terrible, but fitted the theme.
With one song (I think in the Screamer Forest) it sounds like it is cut short, that it loops too soon.
Gladly, atmosphere isn't created through a lot of text (which I am too lazy to read/translate).


Ending: 10
I have to explain this. I do not mean the actual ending, or the two endings (...that I've seen)! What are you going to do there anyway... text, maybe a picture...
What I mean is the feeling, the atmosphere and the tension that I had when I entered the Inner Sanctum! Just from the layout of everything it was clear: this is the last step! It reminded me of the feeling I had as a boy when I first entered the penultimate level of DM1... just great!


Replayability: 5
This is the lowest score I give since the last third (the RA key thingy) and running around in the desert were too annoying for me to face this challenge again. But as a whole, this is the least important of all criteria since I just don't tend to replay stuff.
Therefore a 5 and thus neutral.


Overall: 9
Absolutely great game!
It leaves me craving for more, I might look at ToC again... or keep building something myself!

I completed the game again! This time took two players, and certainly offered a different challenge. Some bits were actually harder - you are more likely to get hit by fireballs and actually died more often! Also less training as I knew the path, and as had two, the individual members were slightly less strong.

Spoiler

I managed to escape with the magic mushroom! Being very quick I made it through the door. I had problems with the door that says 'a little pain' or something, would not open this time, but the mushroom helped me go an alternative route.

Bizarrely I missed the fireball runes, and gor, but managed fine with posoin as spells. The Prime Numbers puzzle I had no idea how I solved lol, I just pressed them all a few times . Also is an area late on with a solid key behind a portcullis, with 6 levers and teleporters. I just threw a rock through the door!

Completed in 5hrs, 12 mins, and very much enjoyed replaying. I think using 4 players would make the dungeon harder.

Trant, if you do a new version, and want some wallsets or monster graphics I have a few you can use. Feel free to ask!

I finished the game 3 days ago and think it's a great custom dungeon. I quite agree with Lai's review because IMHO the weaker part is the ending, too simple and fast.
The mushroom puzzle is a real masterpiece and the background music is able to create an unique atmosphere, even without new wallsets or decorations.

Replay: 3
Puzzles is best part, when once solve them i dont see reason to play it again. Maybe you have choice to go first on desert or forest or dungeon but in fact you dont have choice and must play again in the same order.

Atmosphere: 4
Its all in music (IMO only Linflas Forest of Doom deserve for 9)

Puzzle: 5
Many puzzles are easy, difficulty lay in bad design because am often known what to do and trough hours think how do that. Sometime it was not logic.

Size: Size is not important but quality, i dont see reason of walk trough big ugly desert, for example in Ishar i could walk like that because landscape was beauty but in this dungeon large size of cave or desert make me sick

Graphic: old, odd, in present days its 1 point, but for me gfx was not important am only focus on rpg parts

Parts long remember:
I found light spell in last moment when was near out of torches, stuck in darkness in cave labirynth, hah this is horror. Spiders cave was tough, i found how get treasure without fight. First tree puzzle, i stand with correct item and think half hour how use it (the was same with robe puzzle) Chasm and Castle, at begining i think that i have freedom of where i can go so i spend hours trying get there. Later found that game is very linear and everything must be done in designed order. After this false freedom my motivation to continue was decreased. Play solo, i storage many amount of stuff in first city because too much, then hire second warrior to continue (and was not happy about that) Then enter castle and found even more items which two peoples cant carry, and return to storage items. In fact you need four peoples, at begining i think that its possible to play solo but its hard. Items, even two mombers was overload by items (and thats why i stop play i tryed to play knight in armor but i cant carry it)

Deception: 9
-it look like solo character game? not team is necessary
-it look like freedom actions game? not you must follow some order
-you can buy everything in shop? not, only travell stuff you need
-puzzle look tough? not, you just dont known how they was designed
-i found that you also deceive peoples in hint topic, its funny only for you
The Thicket Thief always steals my equipment! Is he invincible?

(this is review after reach castle, after play full game i could give more points to each score)

Zed5Duke wrote:-i found that you also deceive peoples in hint topic, its funny only for you
The Thicket Thief always steals my equipment! Is he invincible?

that hint made me laugh, honestly.

Thanks for your view on the dungeon Zed. Too bad you stopped playing so early, as you have only seen about 15% of the game.

And linflas, it's good to know that someone likes those fake hints. I always enjoyed them greatly in the hint books of the old Infocom adventures (which were the inspiration for the hint book thread).

In fact you need four peoples

I didn't: I found it much easier with one strong charachter. I did store a couple of items centrally, but was no big deal.

Here's my little review of this great (and waited so long) dungeon
Gameplay: 8
Quite linear at the beginning, some CSB style in the Inner Sanctum. I played with 3 characters : Halk, Sophia and .. myself. They all reached Um Master fighter and wizard levels.

Originality: 10
This is the first "dungeon" in which you really feel like *travelling* between many various places. You can't imagine which place it will end into, comparing to dungeons where you go into or turn around a "special place".

Craft: 6
Good design because with DM and DM2 limitations and graphics, you managed to create something that may not look new but gave a new type of story.
I liked ambient music even if i played mostly without sound. I loved the tons of references in your dungeon (Mario, Pokemon, etc.) but I didn't like some monsters graphics (white-purple chipmunk and the very angry green thing).
Some obvious things were not for me :

Spoiler

throwing an object to the golem or put the dagger into the void

are some examples of this.

Puzzles: 8
Some of them remembered me Sukumvit , best are at the end of course.

Fights: 9
Almost always fair. I got killed many times but i that was my fault. I like the way you have to think at the second attempt (Backfire room for example).
But some were really hard like in Dragon Cave (

Spoiler

i talk about the dragon that pops behind you

)

Difficulty: 9
I wouldn't have completed it without hints thread.

Size: 9
Huge and various. I guess Tower of Champions is the only one bigger.

Atmosphere: 7
I was totally involved in the story, music choice was perfect.

Game ending: 5
I've seen only one, but got disappointed. No big picture or anything similar. Dunno if the other ending is different.

Replayability: 9
Of course ! Alternate ending and i found only 5 secrets ! But i won't replay it from the beginning : i kept savegame just after getting the

Spoiler

grimoire

Overall: 9
I really enjoyed the 2 gameplays : exploration at beginning, hard fights and puzzles at the end.

Thank you very much for the review Linflas! I'm glad you enjoyed Doom Blade!

I think honesty review shold give 5 points as middle value, then leave 5 comments with +/- point. My previously review was too chaotic so am write it again with new rules.

Fights: 3
-1 i hate respawns in every RPGs
-1 its extremly boring when some big area/environment/level contain one kind of monster
-1 too much old graphics
+1 zoo with new monster
0 reach levels after kill boss, but he was too easy

Size: 3
-1 i hate big labirynth with no orientation points, am just hold one side of wall and walk..
-1 i hate to walk trough the same area again, especialy many times
-1 too much ugly graphics, open environment should have some nice landscape it was painfull
+1 feeling of big game world, its good in rpgs
0 i dont explored everything

Difficulty: 5
0 lot of puzzles but i solved them all i meet with no big problems
0 lot of monsters but none present challenge after all

Puzzles: 5
+1 many of them
-1 many of them repeat, like eye switch
-1 strange idea like this one with robe, and bad design like pits (wall no block item to fall on pad, i must use item of correct weight)
+1 monk who teach spells
0 i dont see them all

Replayability: 2
-1 i dont found motivation to finish it even once so definitely dont want play it again
-1 all fun is in puzzles, when once solve them remain boring labirynths with old gfx respawns
-1 it look like freedom of action but in fact is linear, so second game must look the same
0 there is few secrets but i found one or two and there was nothing special in them
0 few characters to choose but my knight become spell master, so i dont want play mage

Gameplay: 3
-1 tryed to play solo knight but he was too weak to carry anything beside his armor
-1 so hired second party member but he was also too weak to carry all this stuff around
0 i dont known where i am and what should i do (it like it and i hate it)
-1 i thought that is free actions and waste time trying enter castle and town at begining
+1 i spend few hours playing, it really have something and its inspiring

Craft: 8
+1 its huge game world, long time spend on build and test
-1 too much random labirynths, which look like have no design
+1 some items
+1 puzzles and bunch of triggers which lay behind them
+1 the same about story, alternate levels (zoo)

Atmosphere: 5
+1 when somebody like atmosphere from very old classic games
-1 when somebody play also modern games and compare both
+1 good choice of music
-1 bad choice of graphics
0 i dont seen everything

Originality: 5
0 it resemble to me dm2, but dont play all so cant say
-1 no there was nothing which make me to say wow i never seen it before!
+1 but for sure its very diversity, not flat game and it could surprise me

Game ending: 5
0 dont known nothing about that
+1 well peoples say that is great
-1 but i dont believe them

Overall: 44/10= 4,4
My progress was in reach castle, end probably by overload and unable to finish playing one knight like i want from begining. Well i could continue without wearing aromr but its not the same fun. Or play four peoples in party, but need train them, maybe if i could begin game in 4 party but i found hall of champions too late, and really tryed finish like i begin. Anyway am later use more magic than sword so my knight turn into mage in game progress, hate that in every rpgs. But probably many other factors put me to end.

Thanks for the review. I know it takes a lot
of work to express an opinion on so many
aspects of the game.

I second that!
It is a critical review, but:
Zed5Duke your review is interesting , nice to see your concerns and thoughts!
Very well structured, too.

I really think it can help for dungeon building.
Like a list of things one should have in mind or at least be aware of

Zed: While I do appreciate that you took your time to write a rather long review, I really doubt how objective a review can be if the reviewer has only seen about 10% of the game. I know that I only review dungeons I have completed for fear of not doing the dungeon and/or the designer justice. Just something to think about.

Also, I'm not sure your method can lead to objective results. Minor nuisances or enhancements weigh just as much as strokes of genius or serious design mistakes. Also, the +1/-1-system cannot lead to very high or very low scores if there are only 3 or 4 items to list. Last but not least, I think that a game (as any piece of art) is more than the sum of its parts. It is an interesting, fresh concept, however, and it certainly helped to get your views across. Thank you for your time and the review.

Just finished playing DOOM BLADE. Didn't get around to it when Trantor first released it, but all I can say is that I'm glad I finally did!

The dungeon was very good. It doesn't use many custom graphics, but doesn't need them. The game play and layout were very good. I know that Trantor spent a lot of time with background music. I'm not one who plays with music on, but I'm sure that those that do appreciated that as well.

I only played with the one character you get at the beginning of the game. The game was easily playable with the one character. Poor Syra did die occasionally, but not that often, and not enough to detract from the game.

I thought the combat in the game was of medium difficulty. For the most part, I thought the monsters were just about right, with the tougher monsters deeper in the dungeon.

Many of the puzzles were fairly difficult for me. I used Trantor's hint book often (the benefit of waiting so long to play the dungeon ). In the end, I had only found 10 of the 12 secrets.

The interconnections of the different areas of the dungeon were great, and gave it somewhat of a CSB feel.

All in all, I thought Trantor did a great job with this effort. It was hard enough to be interesting, but not so hard as to be frustrating. As a player, you were able to use all 4 guild skills and could level up your character(s) in all 4 areas. I much prefer this technique, versus dungeons that are combat specific where the Priest and Wizard skills are somewhat ignored (but I know others really like the heavy combat dungeons).

Thanks for the great dungeon Trantor