Dungeon Master Forum

Open-source ConfluxIII Wow. Now we can
begin to understand this masterpiece. To avoid
spoilers for those who don't want to be spoiled,
I suggest we use the wiki to exchange discoveries.
It will also force a bit of rational organization.

Just for starters I created the EARTH Level-29 map on
the wiki:

http://dmwiki.atomas.com/maps/view/Conflux/29/

Note that there are two very similar areas. Why is
one different by a single cell on the lower edge?
How do we get into this level? There appears to
be a mechanism to teleport the party....perhaps
out of the level. Has anyone been here? Can you
update the notes to give a general description?

Is there some clever monster-faking mechanic in the works there where things are being echoed in the fake earth section that then happen in the real earth sction?

Nopt been to the end of conflux, so don#'t know what happems for certain. Just thinking of the smoke monster in the ROS ending.

I wonder how this wiki can be combined with the automatic extractor/viewer made by Greatstone:

http://greatstone.free.fr/dm/db_data/c_ ... ap_30.html

I wish I had more free time to discover it, there are ... weird stuff in it (I especially spoiled myself viewing the graphics ..)

Has anyone finished Conflux?

How can you finish something that is infinite

In all seriousness, not for a very long time. I got to just after the council on my last run through (I think I was in the apprentice rooms), but because of how the game is that also encompassed detours like Moria and going down to the deepest levels of death.

There is so much sideways and branched areas to explore, and yet the completionist in me keeps doing everything I know is around instead of the central branch. And even then I'm sure I miss stuff even trying to explore it as if new!

automatic extractor/viewer

I had never seen these maps. How did he get them
from the encrypted files?

At any rate, what should we do. These maps have obvious
advantages over the wiki. But then the wiki has the advantage
that it can be edited by anyone and can contain arbitrary
'human-useful' hints.

Where are the stairs in the map you pointed me to? Why
are they missing?

Paul Stevens wrote:Where are the stairs in the map you pointed me to? Why
are they missing?

The maps from Greatstone are still in B5 version. I guess this is a difference between B5 and B6.

Paul Stevens wrote:At any rate, what should we do. These maps have obvious
advantages over the wiki. But then the wiki has the advantage
that it can be edited by anyone and can contain arbitrary
'human-useful' hints.

Maybe we can use these maps to generate basic wiki pages then add your own comments and experience.

beowuuf wrote:How can you finish something that is infinite

Zyx dungeon: if a player is near to the end, then make the dungeon change its global shape and leave player at the start of a new fresh dungeon. Add 1000 satisfaction points to the dungeon. Add more months of pain to the player.

Should I answer the questions "what is this thing for?" or leave it to the ingeniosity of the researchers?

Should I answer the questions

I think you should leave it to the researchers.
My opinion has always been that the fun is in the
collective trial/error and discovery. As we
worked out the details of CSB, for example.

I guess some folks like doing it entirely by themselves
but I enjoy the group effort.

Hello folks,

First, how can I have missed the B6 of ConfluxIII? What a shame for me...
Note that the maps I am able to produce in HTML is just the user-friendly side of the sck tool.
The full process includes a full dump of the dungeon maps in XML, then conversion in HTML using a XSL stylesheet located in the sckExtraPack.
So, it means that I am able to provide on request this XML full dump (or published it in the website if needed) and I imagine it can be easier to do XML->Wiki instead of HTML->Wiki as XML is fully readable in any language. Perhaps by writing a custom XSL stylesheet to do the XML->Wiki conversion if I (or anybody else) can understand the Wiki syntax. Then anybody will be able to add "human tips or notes" on the top of it.

@Zyx: it is a problem for you if I try to map B6 of ConfluxIII and publish the result (ok, ok, I haven't asked the permission for B3, B4, B5, but better late than never, isn't it)?
@Paul: what do you think of the proposal to try a dungeon.dat->XML->Wiki ? (if Zyx doesn't mind, obviously)
It is no more a human way of playing the game but what can we expect from a community still focused on a 25-year-old game style, by the way?

For everybody interested, note that I have the maps of nearly all the custom DM PC dungeons made by the community on the site ( http://greatstone.free.fr/dm/g_cd.html ).
The next release of the sck will also support all the savegame formats (CSBWin included) in order to map the remaining custom dungeons made using dmute and an original savegame. It will also show all the known properties of a savegame, as specified by christophe, including the december update of the savegame spec on the encyclopaedia.

It's not a problem.

Maybe I can help to put the map into the wiki.
Greatstone, the internal format for the maps of the wiki is very simple.
For Conflux/Level00, here is the stored data:
3,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,11,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,6,2,6,2,1,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,11,2,2,
2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,11,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
,1,2,1,3,1,2,2,2,1,2,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,2,2,1,3,1,2,3,1,2,2,2,10,1,1,1,1,2,1,11,11,1,
7,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,8,2,2,2,1,1,7,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,2,6,2,1,2,2,2,1,2,1,
2,1,3,2,2,1,2,2,2,1,2,2,1,7,1,2,1,1,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,2,2,2,1,
9,1,1,7,1,2,1,7,1,2,11,2,1,2,1,11,2,1,2,1,2,6,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,1,3,1,2,1,2,2,1,7,1,
2,2,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,7,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,2,6,5,2,11,2,1,1,2,2,1,7,1,2,1,7,1,2,1,2,1,2,2
,6,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,2,1,1,2,2,1,2,6,2,2,2,2,1,1,10,2,1,7,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,
1,1,2,1,7,1,2,1,7,1,2,2,2,2,6,2,1,7,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,2,1,7,1,2,1,
2,2,1,2,2,2,1,2,6,2,1,2,1,2,1,10,1,1,2,2,11,1,2,1,2,6,2,6,5,1,2,1,1,7,1,7,1,1,2,
1,1,1,1,7,1,2,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,1,5,11,1,1,2,1,7,1,2,1,2,2,1,2,6,2,2,6,2,2,2,2,1,2,1
,1,7,1,11,5,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,10,2,2,2,1,2,1,1,5,2,5,2,1,1
,1,2,2,1,2,6,2,1,2,1,2,10,2,6,2,6,2,1,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,11,11,1,1,1,2,1,1,7,1,
1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,2,2,11,2,2,2,2,2,2
,2,2,2,11,1,1,1,1,2,2,1,2,2,1,1,2,2,1,2,2,2,2,2,1,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,
2,2,11,2,1,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,7,1,1,1,2,1,2
,2,2,1,2,2,2,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,1,2,2,2,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,2,2,10,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,2,1,
2,2,2,2,2,2,1,2,2,1,2,6,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,2,1,7,
1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,7,1,2,2,2,1,1,2,1,1,2,2,2,1,2,2,2,6,2,2,2,6,2,2,1,7,1,
1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,6,2,1,2,10,1,1,2,2,2,2
,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,1,2,2,1,1,1,2
,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,1,2,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1
,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,5,1,2,2,1,2,1,2,2,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,1,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
,1,1,2,2,2,5,2,2,2,1,2,2,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,1,2,1,2
,2,1,2,1,2,2,1,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,2,1,1,2,2,2
,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,3,2,2,1,1,2,2,2

This is just a long list of comma-separated integers. I guess, it may be possible to decode the csbgame.dat file and export to this format. In this case, I will feed the wiki database to make it faster and error-proof.

That`s what I just did. I didn`t want to take "real" maps because of avoiding spoilers.
So I dumped Conflux and got an output file. By editing this file in notepad I got something that looks like a binary code (1=WALL, 0=EMPTY SPACE). This took me about 10-12 hours of hard work.
There were several other things; or, to be precised, special ceses, like stairs - which I decided to show as an empty space, or fake walls, which I decided to show as a regular wall.
Anyway, the results looks like this:


There are two things on these maps:
- wall (which consists also fake walls),
- empty space (everything else except walls and fake walls).

So - everything can you do is to make your OWN marks (whatever you want) on the map. It`s just like making your own maps almost from scratch, but easier.

http://www.mypicx.com/09172010/Conflux3/

I have been updating the Conflux wiki maps. This morning
I made about a hundred changes to Level 0 (Guilds).

I was going to put in lots of notes about switches and door
locations and such and then I took them all out again.
That information is now easily available from the editor
and putting it in caused such an overwhelming number of
notes on the map that more interesting notes were
buried. I think notes should be limited to interesting
hints that cannot be easily discovered using the editor. Like:
"You can save a Cross key by entering this area from the East".
"You can dodge the shooter by running quickly to the doorway
on the left".
"One COMETITION point for getting this Flask".

I agree. If every square has its own note, the global note interert decrease.
Which kind of note did you add (and then, remove ?) If they are relevant, maybe we can find a technical solution...

I was adding things like:
A switch here opens the door at (23,12).

Such things are pretty obvious from the editor so
I decided to remove them and only add notes
of more strategic importance.

Hi,

Could someone repair the http://dmwiki.atomas.com/wiki/Conflux/Spells list? All the symbols are gone and I had no idea how heavily I leaned on that now that it's gone.

Also, and this may not be the place, but I'm playing the B6 version and for the life of me I can't find a compass. Played an older version before starting B6 and had two, now I can't find any.

Are the tips from http://dmwiki.atomas.com/wiki/Conflux/Items/Compass still valid for B6? I think I can get one easy enough if they are but since I was posting about the spell list I thought I'd ask. Edit: At least one tip is good, found a compass at last!

Love, Love, LOVE Conflux. Tried it once years ago and wasn't up to the difficulty. Now I'm on my third run through, getting further each time. Leif, Halk, Mophus, and Gothmog this time.

Thanks

If there's a spell in particular you are after, one of us might recall it and be able to put it in spoiler tags/PM for you. I think the wiki is being a little odd right now

Found it by checking the map on the wiki where I found the scroll. It was the shield spell. Not sure what I did with the scroll...

I hope the wiki spell list gets fixed though. I always run Conflux with a web browser open to the wiki with tabs for the maps and the spell list right next to it.

Amazingly, I still get lost.

Created an account on the Wiki and added the spells back as text. The spells are still there, but the <runes>FUL</runes> don't seem to be working anymore. I left the non-working tags in so if it is fixed in the future no one will have to redo that, just edit out my simple text. Very sorry if that's not how I was supposed to do it, post and I'll edit my stuff back out if it's a problem.

Thanks to everyone who built this thing. I would not be able to play this game without it, ok, maybe I could but I'd rather not have to have notebooks full of notes and reams of graph paper lying around my computer. (Flashbacks of my Bard's Tale days on the Commodore 64)

Thanks for that!

Wow. Thank you Paul for the maps. I'd never been able to get anywhere before, as I gave up the graph paper after Crusaders of the Dark Savant, and dont have the patience to restart.

Now if only we can get the spoiler/hint thread in a usable format. Ive got some time on my hands and wouldnt mind (trying to)compiling the thread into a wikifiable format if anyone is interested in actually putting it on there. I figure the time I spend compiling it would save all the *hours* ive spent digging in there trying to find the tidbit of info I need...

Spam invasion on the wiki!