Dungeon Master Forum

Hey Guys,

As mentioned in my other thread (http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 27&t=29283) I've decided to give DM a go to tide me over to Legend of Grimrock, I haven't touched the game for 20 years and didn't complete it back then, so the game is mostly new to me.

I set up the trusty Win UAE (Amiga Emulator) and started when many of you recommend to be the definitive version of Dungeon Master, a few notes on setting up, I found by default the arrow keys controlled movement which was a stretch for my left hand, instead I modified it so the WASDQE keys become used for movement, much better! I also added F5 and F9 as quick save and quick load respectively, which is quite a time saver let me tell you!

After reading the odd thread where people recommend reincarnation over resurrection I decided to go for it, here's my team, old name first then the new name I choose,


Leif the Valiant -> Jagger Redmane

Stamm Bladecaster -> Brom Broadaxe

Mophus The Healer -> Dorro "The Smiler"

Boris Wizard of Baldur -> Zappo

So a human, 2 dwarves and a halfling, not a bad mix!

I started down into the dungeon fighting the odd Screamer and Mummy, nothing to hard, I also took the opportunity to do some war cry's on lone Screamers giving Brom some mana (he started with 0) I got a little lost looking for a key, I found it in the end a grey one that nearly merged into the floor. (really hard to see) Continuing on I reached an annoying door saying "none shall pass" with a teleporter, I lobbed a fireball at the door (I learnt the runes in another thread) and gave it a good kick for a few minutes but nothing happened so I left it for a while, I did eventually come back and discovered you had to chop it with an axe! Thankfully Brom my dwarven fighter had one, a quick whack later and it was gone!

I spent a lot of this level casting light spells to conserve torches and and once I got the recipes, creating potions, I stumbled across a stamina potion whch Brom could make which after leveling eventually got his Mana up to a mighty 7!

I also found 2 x magical Boxes which I haven't used yet but they seem to contain a spell of some sort?

Fountains are everywhere so no one was thirsty I also stuffed everyone with Screamer slices which they seemed to enjoy!

The next level started well with me finding a compass in a hidden area, this is great since I don't have any map to speak of. I then entered an interesting area,

"Choose your door choose your fate!" I looked at each name and went for "Creature cavern" on the basis that surely a lot of little creatures will be the easiest choice? Well a few minutes later I was dead after being mauled by many blue trolls and mummies! Not to worry I reloaded and took it much more carefully making some healing potions up and running away when I got surrounded. And this is where I left it, My party needs a good rest so hopefully I can find somewhere good to hide before I get mauled again!

My party has reached these levels,

Jagger Redmane – Novice Fighter and Neophyte Priest

Brom Broadaxe– Novice Fighter and Novice Priest

Dorro "The Friendly" - Neophyte Ninja, Priest & Wizard

Zappo - Neophyte Ninja, & Novice Wizard

If anyone has any suggestions or tips etc feel free to suggest away, and I shall keep you guys posted.

Daniel.

Sounds like you had a good and easy start. Maybe too easy, those level increases look a little low, you may be running through things too quickly and you might find the next level impossibly hard. He he he, aha ha ha ha haaaa!

Gulp, it's already starting to get a little tricky to!

Hmm what's the best way to gain some levels? Just find more creatures to kill? (I've killed everything so far)

I haven't been resting much as I didn't want to waste food, maybe I need to rest more and cast some extra spells?

Oh and I've been meaning to ask, how do you know if an item is better then an already equipped one? For example which is better an Axe or a Falchion?

Daniel.

Darklord wrote:Mophus The Healer

...


So a human, a dwarf, a psychotic pervert and a halfling, not a bad mix!

Fixed that for you.
Seriously, many people who finally revisited DM after decades take Mophus for their party! I'm worried.

But REALLY seriously, it sounds like you are making good progress! I remember that the "Creature Cavern" was also the first door I opened when I played DM for the first time in 1991. It seems like you don't really need advice, as you even found the compass (which I only managed long after I first completed the game!). You should keep some water with you, as the fountains will become increasingly scarce the further down you travel.

About the Magic Boxes: They

Spoiler

freeze all monsters for a few seconds so they won't be able to move or attack

. This is especially useful if you trap monsters

Spoiler

under a closing door which will do quite some damage

. They come in two varieties; the green one

Spoiler

lasts significantly longer

than the blue one.

EDIT: Don't worry about your levels. If you kill everything and cast the odd spell or two once you have extra mana to spare, you will be fine. I'm sure you will gain a few additional level before you descend the next stairway. I'd advice you to also let your spellcasters gain a few fighter levels for the hitpoints and stat increase.
Also, don't worry too much about food, as there are several never-ending supplies of that on the game.

EDIT2: You don't know which items will be better. Just try them out. In general, the attack options are the most important thing ("chop" is a lot better than "swing", for example). As a rule of thumb, the further down you find it, the better it is. This doesn't go for the axe, as it is indeed better than a Falchion or Sword. Stamm just lets you cheat by having a powerful weapon from the start.

Trantor wrote:
Seriously, many people who finally revisited DM after decades take Mophus for their party! I'm worried.

He seemed friendly, I liked his smile!

Yeah that compass will be handy I spotted the button on the wall as I was going past, I've been tapping walls in dead ends for illusionary walls to but found nothing so far.

Aha I shall do more resting then and spam some fireballs at those enemies I'm facing, I also learnt a poison cloud spell or some such from a scroll recently which I haven't got round to trying, I'll see what that is like to. I reckon fireballs on trolls and mummies is usually a good idea. (It is in D&D and Warhammer anyhow!)

I'm glad I stuck with the axe then, it looked impressive and I'd put axe in Brom's name so decided to stick with it!

Daniel.

I think all questions have been answered so far, so I'll just say: good progress, keep going and good luck!

In the "Choose your door" area I take the doors one by one from left to right - just close the door / portcullis behind you when you're leaving, surely you don't want to have a previously overlooked creature on your back whilst fighting another one?

Darklord wrote:He seemed friendly, I liked his smile!

Oh, boy, how naive! Why do you think he smiles like that?

Jan wrote: In the "Choose your door" area I take the doors one by one from left to right - just close the door / portcullis behind you when you're leaving, surely you don't want to have a previously overlooked creature on your back whilst fighting another one?

Ah you'll get to go into more than one of the doors then? I was thinking we'd only get to do one. After "Creature cavern" I was going to go and try another button of course.

Jan wrote:
Oh, boy, how naive! Why do you think he smiles like that?

Heh well reincarnating will surely have fixed his problems, He's a new friendly dwarf now! I swear while I was watching him though, he winked at me...

Daniel.

Darklord wrote:Ah you'll get to go into more than one of the doors then? I was thinking we'd only get to do one. After "Creature cavern" I was going to go and try another button of course.

D'oh! Sorry for spoiling it for you. But you'd sooner or later find the truth yourself anyway. Plus visiting everything you can is good for training, of course. The more you train in the upper levels the easier the lower levels will be for you.

Ah no probs I would normally always explore left to right to, think I may go back to the left most one after this one is done, if I recall it's sign made me think there was a solo enemy in there, something BIG...

Daniel.

Darklord wrote:solo enemy in there

Nope.

Darklord wrote:something BIG

Yep.

Scared?

Well my adventure has drawn to a close due to nasty emulator bugs...

Unfortunately my load/save states are corrupting for reasons unknown, I've posted here,

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=63790

I redid a section twice but the saves keep corrupting, so until I get an answer, I can't really progress...

Daniel.

Oh, damn, that doesn't sound good I hope you can get it fixed. I've never had any problems with save states, but then again I haven't touched WinUAE for quite a few years.

One thing you should check is that you didn't inadvertently change any of the WinUAE config parameters. The config needs to match exactly every time you load a save state, so make sure it's still the same.
Also, what machine are you emulating? I've found DM works best on emulations of the basic A500, with Kickstart 1.3 and 1MB Chip Mem. Emulating newer machines seems less reliable.

I've probably made some newb error with the setup, it's weird how it was working fine for a while though. If I go back a bit it works fine again till BAM it's just errors again. I was emulating a A1200 (that what I had) but since the errors I've tried a A500 instead.

Meanwhile I've had a look through the settings and I've been able to set up a floppy disk to use the built into game saving, it's not quite as efficient but it may be alright. I will miss my quicksave option though! (I'm a compulsive saver)

Daniel.

Could DMute edit amiga saves? Perhaps someone could reconstruct the file from fresh well enough?

You can't switch to an Amiga 500 config using a save state made for an Amiga 1200. Incompatibalities between the memory addresses stored in the save state will cause errors and crash your game.

If you've not already done so, I suggest that you roll back to a save state that still works under a A1200 config. Then use the in game saving to save to a blank floppy disk image. Then create a new A500 config, and load the floppy disk based save into that. I'd then keep saving to floppy disk every once in a while, but with a new A500 config, perhaps the save states will still work.

Something else to consider: What version of DM are you using and where did you get it? You'll get best results using IPF image sources (not ADFs).

@Beo: I don't think DMute would help in this case, it seems lilke the save state is corrupt (save states are just WinUAE memory-states saved as a large disk file, they don't use floppy disk ADF images or the normal filesystem game-saving routines).

@ Darklord

Try RTC instead. Just beware them spell casters

Or CSBWin - an exact copy of the ST version. You do lose one or two things from the Amiga version, but at least you won't be on here in a few days ranting about Wizard Eyes.

Aha well the in game disc saving is working, so I've been able to make some progress, was a bit of a pain redoing the same section 3 times but I'm past it now.

Level 3 is now complete! The Rock monsters were damn hard, they took a massive pounding, nasty things! At least they are slow though, I spent a while War crying at one, as he slowly chased after me.

The matrix confused me for a while, finally finding the switch on the far side, the compass was extremely useful here of course. Amusingly when I entered the area, I picked up the arrow and flung it away for fun and it went straight through a wall finding me a shield! Incidentally does wearing a shield make much difference? I've been mostly holding potion bottles in my off hands. It turned out of course that the first two areas I choose Creature cavern and Chambers of the guardian, had the majority of monsters for the level!

I didn't see any water sources anywhere so my team was starting to get thirsty, I had some water bottles so I've given them that, hope I find water soon though or I'll have to head back up to level 2 or something. (which had like a dozen fountains if I recall correctly)

I've just ventured into the start of level 4, killed a couple more Rock monsters and some Screamers, I've found a couple of empty alcoves which I find suspicious, I suspect they may be for something at some point, If I don't get a wall clue somewhere I'll stick a look in each or something just to see.

I took your suggestions and swapped the back row to the front for a bit, I've been doing this in the middle combat to if one of my front guys takes a lot of damage, seems quite a sensible tactic, this means my back row guys are gaining the odd fighter level now.

Here's my current levels,

Jagger Redmane – Apprentice Fighter & Priest, Novice Wiz

Brom Broadaxe– Journeyman Fighter, Apprentice Priest, Neophyte Wizard

Dorro "The Smiler" - Apprentice Fighter, Novice Ninja, Priest & Wizard

Zappo - Novice Fighter & Ninja, Neophyte Priest, Journeyman Wizard

Are they looking any better?

Incidentally originally Jagger and Brom seemed to regenerate mana quickest (of course they had the least mana overall) but oddly Zappo has recently started started gaining it back super fast, where as Dorro regains it slowly, what stats govern mana regen? Is it based on Vitality?

Well that's it for now, hopefully I shall delve further into the depths of level 4 tonight!

Daniel.

Sounds like you're doing alright - shields, I would say, are basically useless. I do what you do, and keep a flask in everyone's off-hand for instant potion-casting .
If you're running low on water, yeah, maybe best to nip back up to Level 2, where you know there's a million fountains, and refill your waterskins there, as it's not too far away. I can't remember where there's any fountains on Level 4 (or even if there are any at all), but if you're still at the start of that level, it's not too far to go to just hop back up to Level 2. Or you can hang on till the start of Level 5...
Mana - This is based on Wisdom. I think a high Wis causes mana to regen faster...

Ameena has it right. Keep using flasks instead of shields for your off-hand.
There is a fountain at the very end of level 2, and now that the chambers are complete, the way through level 3 is rather short. If I recall correctly, the next fountain you will find is on level

Spoiler

5

.
The interval of mana regeneration is indeed based on Wisdom, which is why Boris/Zappo was a good choice for a hero. Also, the higher your maximum mana value is, the more you will regenerate at each interval. If I recall correctly, 40 is a valuable threshold - if you have over 40 mana, you will regenerate more.

Don't forget to throw stuff around with your two tanks, as they don't have any ninja levels yet. One of your characters is highlighted (the name is displayed in yellow instead of grey). This is your party leader, and he or she is the one who does all the stuff you do inside the dungeon window, like throwing stuff around or pushing switches. So if you throw stuff around by clicking on the top half of the dungeon screen with an object in your hand, it will be the leader who throws the object around. It's useful to throw some random items here or there to gain some ninja experience for the leader. For example, the clubs of the blue Trollins on level 3 are a very good example. Everything you throw at a monster will damage it.

About your progress: There is a door around with a foreboding inscription. The game goes on behind that door. Also, for many people, that door marks the threshold between the training section (what you have found so far) and the true game (what is yet to come).

Keep us informed, it's fun reading about your adventures!

As others said, it's a very good idea to go back to level 2 and fill everything you have with water. Because in front of you there's a pure hell. Trantor put it right - the training is complete and the game itself starts here! Good luck!

Oh my exciting stuff this level sounds scary! Aye I think a trip back to level 2 is in order, maybe some of the enemies will have respawned and I can bash them again while I'm at it, I'm guessing the more XP I get the better.

Ninja levels for my front guys eh, check. I had been throwing the odd troll club around it was to tempting not to! I think my team will be quite multi talented by the time I'm done, I do like the levelling system in this game, skills improve as you use them, seems to have been copied by the Elder Scrolls games.

Daniel.

It's a good idea to train everyone in everything, at least a bit - raising Ninja levels increases your erm, Anti-Fire or something, I think. Obviously Wizzy and Priest skills are valuable so you can Fireball everything to death and make health potions and stuff...and Fighter levels so that people have the hitpoints to take a few smacks. I tend to neglect Ninja till I'm pretty far through the dungeon, at which point I remember its existence and have each character repeatedly lob a boulder or chest (anything heavy enough to land directly in front of you when you throw it) until they've levelled up enough for it to land two squares away, rather than on the one directly in front of me - at this point I move to the next character and train them instead. I'm too lazy to keep moving a step to pick up the item so I think I don't really level past Journeyman in Ninja .

Journeyman seems to be a good cut off point between casual training for free free ninja levels, and actually putting some effort in to throwing and punching.

Hey Guys,

Well one of the WinUAE developers replied and he figured out the issue, seems states don't fully work with the A1200 emulation, so I'm now running a A500 instead, and states are working fine again. I did notice the game ran much slower, (movement delays) so I added an extra 2mb of Fast Ram and this sure has speeded it up! (and no crashes so far) To be safe as well as using states, I save to the fake floppy disc in game every now and then to.

Onto the game! I went back to level 2 and got some much needed water, I also found a few respawned trolls and such which I happily despatched! Onwards to Level 4 which I christen the level of FOOD, purple worms everywhere, and they all left gigantic heavy worm rounds, I ended up completely overloading my party with food! By the end of the level I would just stuff the heavy worm rounds into the adventurers mouths till they were nearly sick!

A ghost came up to me which was rather scary I ran away half the level and cowered while frantically trying to figure out the harm ghost spell I had on a scroll somewhere, (amongst like 10 scrolls...) I found it just in time as the ghost had followed me all the way back! One anti ghost spell later and it was no more! (phew)

I got to the end of the level, but I knew there was a turning or two and the odd door I'd missed, so I went all the way back to the start of the level, and a suprising number of enemies had respawned, Screamers and purple worms everywhere! (my party could hardly move any more I'd fed them so much!) My inventory was completely filled to. (including 4 chests filled with more food!)

Eventually I headed down to level 5, here I went left and found something called the "Treasure store" this sounded interesting so I wandered into there and found my first Water Monster, he was vaguely unpleasant but a few fireballs sorted him out. (are fireballs better or worse versus water creatures?) I then went left again into a hideous and horrible room filled with pits that would appear and disappear as I walked. Typically I went to fast and fell down a pit, and was treated to the message "Ha ha ha..." Still while I was down there I found an illusionary wall with a chicken leg in, one of my characters was mildly peckish so into his mouth it went! Back through the teleporter I'm being more careful now, when a flying nasty came after me, I shot it full of shurikens and arrows and it died, at this point I realised all my ammo had gone into the pit, and the only way to retrieve it was to fall down myself again... So my brave adventurers jumped back into the pit to retrieve the ammo! <ouch> At this point I noticed they'd broken several arms and legs and such, so I had a nice rest and drunk some tasty healing potions. (yum yum)

I'd discovered by this point that poison was nasty so I keep several healing and cure poison potions ready to go for when the inevitable happens.

Back up again I spent several minutes trying to work out the fiendish pits puzzle, eventually figuring I had to go into the right room first where I found a fancy shield. (I left it there) then making my way into the left corridor, I fought some missile firing creatures but fireballs sorted them out nicely! Then quite surprisingly I found the way down to level 6, hmm I still had loads of this level left to explore, so I decided I would explore the rest of the dungeon level before I went down. Back past the traps I found a room of infinite teleporters, I eventually found a switch to press and was able to hug the edge of the wall to get through. These puzzles are getting quite devious! I found something called a choker, which sounded like a cursed item to me, thankfully it didn't choke me, so I guess it's just extra armour.

And this is pretty much where I left it, my levels have improved nicely,

Jagger – Craftsman Fighter, Novice Ninja, Journeyman Priest & Wiz
Brom - Craftsman Fighter, Apprentice Wizard & Ninja, Journeyman Priest
Dorro Journeyman Fighter & Ninja, Apprentice Priest, Artisan Wizard
Zappo Journeyman Fighter, Apprentice Ninja & Priest, Artisan Wizard

I'm espcially pleased to have two Artisan Wizards now! I do notice that everyone now has tons of HP and so much more mana than before, I can now cast several spells on the row, which is great. Also due to having crazy amount of food I'm resting a lot more, so most enemies are getting blasted by half a dozen firebals before they get to hit me! Re Ninja, I've been throwing items with the leader as often as I can, also my two main fighter both have a shuriken which I found you can equip above thier weapon, once they throw it they will then auto equip their melee weapons ready for combat which is quite nice. Zappo has himself a sling with plenty of rocks, and Dorro has a Bow and arrows.

All in all I'm having a blast!

Daniel.

Blimey, you're doing really well!!! You didn't even mention running away from the scary and powerful pink worms, which usually destroy most new players to the game and make us run away screaming! Sounds like you'l have no trouble at all with the rest of the game

Cheers! It's great to read that you have a lot of fun with the game. You are making good progress. Many people have a bit of trouble with the worms, as they are the first semi-dangerous enemies you encounter, but it seems you are doing very fine indeed.

Congratulations on reaching the left room in the pit area! I still usually don't manage to do that. Your characters are also looking very good right now, monsters should be very manageable.

Keep the "treasures" you find on this level, you will need several of them. You can dump some food near the stairway back up to level 4, as it sounds you have a ton of it. Worm Rounds in particular are rather heavy for the small amount of hunger they satisfy, I never carry them around.

Oh, and something to look forward to: The best is still to come.

Wow, as other said, well done on the worm level! Even with all the years of my experiences in DM, I'm still always a little bit anxious when entering that level. Some of the places with respawing worms are pretty nasty.

As Trantor suggested, worm rounds are pretty useless unless you're starving - they are quite heavy and have almost zero nutritional value. I always leave them behind or eat them in situ and carry only the most valuable pieces of food with the highest nutritional value / weight ratio (like the "drumsticks" etc.)

Darklord wrote:(are fireballs better or worse versus water creatures?)

You mean the triffid-like green monsters? I think they might be more susceptible to poison cloud but a good old axe/sword and a few fireballs solve the problem too.

Darklord wrote:with a chicken leg in

As you'll find later in the game, it's actually not a chicken leg. *chuckles*

Darklord wrote:I found something called a choker, which sounded like a cursed item to me

Choker is actually useless, it doesn't do anything, neither good nor bad.

Well the worms put out decent damage, but if the front row takes a lot of damage I then swap the back row in, that being said this means everyone can end up being poisoned which is troublesome! Being able to throw so many fireballs really is good, I'm up to ON level fireballs now with my Artisan casters, the two fighters are casting Um level. I tend to back away while firing everything I've got at them, then when I run low on fireballs I start hitting them with twin axes! (I have two now)

Having so much food has meant I can rest A LOT, which means my mana is nearly full again after each fight. Course I did get a rude awakening once which was rather unpleasant!

Yeah it must have been a triffid green monster, to be honest I didn't see it for long it got obliterated with fireballs before it came close!

I''m glad that choker is safe, I was really worried when I put it on I'd end up strangled!

Daniel.

Eat the worm rounds first, as Jan said they take up room and weight but do not give that much nutrition - better to keep the screamer slices and especially the "chicken" leg type-stuff in your backpack.

Darklord wrote:I went all the way back to the start of the level, and a suprising number of enemies had respawned, Screamers and purple worms everywhere!

Yes, they respawn a lot here. That can be useful if you run short of food.

Surprised you did so well on this level - all those worms after "This is my prisoner" were a real challenge my first time. Nevermind the ones the attack you when you go back to a "safe" room. Well done!