Dungeon Master Forum

Like I said in the http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 27&t=23999 topic, this article made me think about a special game, and wanted to share my thoughts about it on here .

Has anyone here ever played "Demise: Rise of the Ku'tan" (released in 1999, and its "add-on", Ascension, released in 2012 ) ? It's a dungeon-crawler game, (well, a "fancy" roguelike game), with virtually hundreds (not to say thousands) hours of gameplay time, when you really got into it. This is due to the HUGE amount of, erm, everything (maps are enormous, and it seems that you can go deeper and deeper without reaching an end. The difficulty is also significantly hard, there are a billion of items, the class system is lovely (and there's practically no level cap - you'd understand why if you ever play the game ).
Well i could talk about it for hours (there are a LOT of other awesome features : for example, if you die, you have to run trough the dungeon with another character to get your corpse back to town, or hire rescuers with gold ; a billboard which generates random quests-with random bounties too ; classes are in fact guilds; with NPC guildleaders giving you quests, from time to time, in order to progress - and when your guild level gets higher than the actual guildleader's, you become the actual guildleader, with a nice reward... and so on ...).
I find it to be one of the most underrated games i've ever played, and gave me, somehow, kind of a "DM feeling" (couldn't describe it, tho). I have to mention the fact that it includes an online multiplayer feature,too (you can run a 4 chars team in solo, with 4 slots for "familiars" : mobs charmed, or just asking to join, depending of your alignment,charisma...).

Well, i do not remember having read about this game on the dm.com forums, so I had to share with you However, i think the game is not suited for "casual" gamers, as many aspects of the game are unforgiving. Still, if you have a free year or two to waste, i strongly advise you to give it a try .
(That is one of my three "I need to play it at least once_a_year" games The two others being Baldur's gate (with the BGT mod, the most amazing thing ever made), and DM)

A few screenshots of Demise : Here .

Note : To any Baldur's Gate-fan-owner-of-an-Ipad : Prepare to bliss .

I actually remember this game. I did not recognise the name, and I played at most 5 minutes of it, but now that I see the screenshots I remember a friend having it on the PC. Although if I recall correctly he complained a lot about it, and did not stick with it for very long (then again he was not the most patient of players, and much preferred soccer games to rpgs).

Sasha wrote:Still, if you have a free year or two to waste, i strongly advise you to give it a try .

I can safely say that not many people on this board fit into that category!

As for BGEE, if I had an iPad I definitely would go for it. I am considering getting it for the PC, just going to wait and see how much is enhanced and how much is new.

oh_brother wrote:As for BGEE, if I had an iPad I definitely would go for it. I am considering getting it for the PC, just going to wait and see how much is enhanced and how much is new.

I may eventually give it a try on PC too ; the problem is, a lot of great fan-made mods already exist, and i guess they won't be compatible with the enhanced version. I'll probably wait for it to be released, and then read some reviews.

oh_brother wrote:I actually remember this game. I did not recognise the name, and I played at most 5 minutes of it, but now that I see the screenshots I remember a friend having it on the PC. Although if I recall correctly he complained a lot about it, and did not stick with it for very long (then again he was not the most patient of players, and much preferred soccer games to rpgs).

Indeed, this game can be very frustrating, especially at the beginning.

Sasha wrote: Indeed, this game can be very frustrating, especially at the beginning.

This seems to be something that is not very popular anymore, i.e. hard, unforgiving games. I don't say that to try to sound superior, because I have gotten into that habit also. I started playing Oubliette recently, and it took me a long time to change my mindset - you have to accept that your favourite hero can permanently die, that all your hard work can be wiped out and you cannot simply reload the last save, you just start building up again.

Anyway I checked up the reviews for Demise and it seems that was a major part of the problem. The critics were not terribly impressed, but it still has a hardcore fanbase. Maybe I will check it out sometime, if I ever find the time to get through my gaming backlog.

So, I think I can remember it too. But Ive played a LOT of RPGs.

As far as frustrating, is it frustrating like having to grind levels or experience, or is it frustrating in the pema-death aspect of Roguelikes like (Z)Angband? (BTW, quick bypass of permadeath in most Roguelikes, just copy your char's file every so often, then paste it back in when the game wipes your file after you die)

Because I'm a completionist. I want to go everywhere and get everything. I hate having to grin the same are aover and over juts to get strong enough to go elsewhere and I hate games where you have to create like 10 chars before 1 survives to 2nd level. Thats the biggest falw of most Roguelikes IMHO. So, why is this one frustrating?

I think the reason people found it frustrating is the lack of a reload feature - when you die it is permanent (unless you go and drag the character back out with someone else).
TBH since this isn't really permadeath it might not be that painful - you know you can get the player back, it would just take some time.

Death is not permanent , and is not that a big issue at the beginning, as your body is quickly found on the upper levels (you lose all the gold you hadn't stored at the bank, though). Depending on your character's stats, the resurection process can fail, or sometimes give a stat malus. The thing is, there is no save/load system , it's about the same system as mmorpgs, any mistake is irreversible. Your character also has an "age" stat, which can cause troubles, depending on the race of your character (if you hire rescuers to grap a corpse, depending on the depth it's located, it can take months/years) . There are ways to get younger though

raixel wrote: Because I'm a completionist. I want to go everywhere and get everything. I hate having to grin the same are aover and over juts to get strong enough to go elsewhere and I hate games where you have to create like 10 chars before 1 survives to 2nd level. Thats the biggest falw of most Roguelikes IMHO. So, why is this one frustrating?

Well the first characters will probably die often, and have a bad stat/class combo choice. With experience and right documentation, you can learn enough to create a char/party that is likely to survive easily enough. You will however have to grind some areas at some points, which can be boring, indeed.