Dungeon Master Forum

Thanks all. Is it recommended to import your existing party? I would think so...but maybe the ones you select new have different attributes that may be more beneficial??

I would assume that CSB would be the next logical step - or is there other ones that I should check out first?

Clodius - you kinda scare me with your post - rather ominous.

quarter of a century ago, I imported my characters, I cared for them, but you're right, it won't make any difference except what they look like.

My dear friend,
Consider DM as a walk in the park. As you descend through the levels, you had time to perfect your training under cover in a secured place. You found enough food to satisfy your hunger as you needed it.
For CSB it’s quite a different story. You will be the food. Expect to go hungry. To be constantly diverted from your path. Monsters will be merciless… even for the experimented adventurer .

I will sing your praises much later after your death .

As Clodius says, CSB is pitched at a much higher level than DM - the starting level for CSB is roughly that at which you finished DM. As such, the characters in the Prison are at around Adept/Expert level (give or take) in their various skills so if you were to take a party of those guys you'd have to Resurrect them (and therefore wouldn't be able to rename them if that's what you like to do with your characters) since Reincarnating completely wipes all their skills and you'll get your arse handed to you on a plate. Well, you probably will anyway, multiple times, but at least it'll happen a bit less often if you actually have some skill levels to start with . I've always imported my DM party because they're the guys I'm used to, that I levelled up from nothing and have grown attached to and stuff. In case you aren't aware, they won't be imported with any of their stuff (whether you bring an old DM party or a new CSB one) - it's just their stats and skills that carry over. They'll be nude and with empty inventories when you start.
DM is Easy Mode, the training level, the stpe-by-step, level-by-level dungeon of gradually increasing difficulty in which you start at the top and work your way down to the Big Bad at the bottom. In CSB you start...well, I won't even spoil it by telling you which part of the dungeon you start in, but it's not nearly so straightforward as DM. Chaos Strikes Back is very chaotic. Stairways, teleporters (visible or otherwise), monsters everywhere, keys, buttons, doors, pits (again, visible or otherwise), all sorts of stuff all over the place and if you've not played it before, you will get lost and you most likely will get horribly killed numerous times. But there is a structure to the dungeon, it's not completely random, and there are certain things you need to do in order to progress. But feel free to ask here if you need any help - we can put it in spoiler tags and stuff so you don't get stuff...well, spoiled .

Wizard Zedd,

Spoiler

to beat those nasty worms is EASY if you can fight like a warrior.

all you need is some quick reflexes combined with WAR CRY, the same skills sorta like fusing Chaos. you'll need an axe or sword though. just scare em with war cry

Spoiler

and slaughter them to worm rounds, easy to do

. if you choose DM2, attack them, don't run, you'll see how easy it is. if you think you can use fireballs all the time it won't be that easy. be one with the axe\sword.

The start is easy enough once you know what you're doing. I've just been talking generally, though. I don't want to spoil anything .

Wizard Zedd,
My small sarcastic note was just my way for me to welcome you. Knowing that you will follow the footprints by almost all of us, fans of this forum left in the dust of these dark catacombs, made me nostalgic for the good times I spent playing DM and CSB . I envy you being the next adventurer to move the cobwebs of the dungeon so liked . By no means was my intention to be nasty. Be sure that your distress calls for help will be followed with passion during your descent into hell. Be sure that if I can bring you of my assistance, it will be with great pleasure that I shall make it.

Having read the comments of the lost souls become confused in the filled corridors of teleports and pivots, my passage in these puzzling underground passages was very methodical. Having an analytic spirit, I drew (Probably as numerous of us) the detailed plans of each part where I fell and noted all the details being connected with them. If this kind of assistance can be useful for you, I can supply them to you with pleasure.

Honor to you and long life to your champions .

well said Clodius. we are all here to help anyone that has been put under the spell of DM. I like your new avatar in the swamp

Well it looks like I will be taking on CSB...it will probably take me forever as I already found DM difficult

I truly appreciate the passion everyone has for the game and will be reaching out to you for assistance many times I am sure. Thanks for the encouragement and thanks in advance for the help that I am sure to need!

Looking forward to hearing how you do . Don't get too frustrated if you die a million times and keep getting lost and have no idea what you're supposed to be doing and stuff - that's kind of CSB's main thing but you can get around it eventually .

there will always be someone to help WZ. I recommend a course of strategy. one of the things I do is be consistent. when at a cross section, I always go left and often leave a marker, an item can be in four places on a tile, with a little bit of ingenuity you'll form a pattern you can remember. CSB is hard for most new players, and when you reach dungeons like stewy's , you'll need a little more than knowing where you have been. good luck on your journey WZ

I have begun my new journey...managed to stay alive despite the instant attacks. I will keep you posted and let you know when I am in need of assistance

The courage of WZ to fight against Chaos evil army gave me the thrill to jump again in CSB pit. I decide to wake 4 champions from the grave instead of bringing one of my DM party. Which guys did you chose?

Cool, nice to hear you've got started . Did you take your old party or make a new one?

Chaos Strikes back... wow, there's something that makes me wanna play it again...
it is ridiculously difficult unless you have a good mind for lateral puzzles (not me) - and map-making (me)!

FYI: Am currently trying to compile all the old ST Format (UK) hints for CSB - (yeah I know, you didn't ask, but hey, I'm as crazy as you guys are)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wacbka88quqbz ... .xlsx?dl=0
(interesting to see if any are still useful) - one day I'll find that hint I submitted and got published...

I think I was reminded how crazy the CSB map was from playing this version recently:
http://www.nexusmods.com/grimrock/mods/311/?

but it's not 100% true to original... so sorely tempted to dig out some Ned's / Stuff / ('insert other naff 90's UK indie here') and play again
Anyway, glad people still love this game

Dave

another crazy like me, I am jealous

I couldn't be more happy Dave. die hard DM fan

I remember CSB being nightmarishly confusing to start with... Constantly getting lost or going round in circles.
It starts to get clearer once you start to make sense of the map, and what certain parts do.

Great! I am what you could say directionally challenged. I get turned around and go in circles on the easiest of maps - I am going to be very very lost for sure.

About CSB, I posted this some time ago.
Indeed CSB is extremely tough. When released, I made a point to play it with no hint whatsoever. That is becausen playing DM, I peeked at maps and tips from magazines....Too bad for me, that spoiled my game !
CSB took me at least 2 months.
The start was hell, I had many bits of maps I was enable to connect together, I was running in circles.
When those bits started to make sense, relating each other, that was a major step. Full mapping was on the way. I was able to find my ways.
Recently, I tried CSB from Paul Stevens, I took all my detailed maps ( Dusty scrolls on top of my wardrobe ).....But I was so confused in my first attempts, I gave up.
CSB is a tremendous challenge.

As previously stated... CSB is no walk in the park, and it would be quite wrong to suggest it'll be a breeze.... but i hope that doesn't put you off playing it, as it is a great game that you will get the hang of.

sorry guys, CSB was easy if you're a warrior, you magicians will always take longer. it took days, not months, try it again, this time try war cry and slice them to bits.

Does anyone every play the thief? I got fed up picking up stars and arrows: soon as you learn that a mid-power fireball is the quickest ting to cast, then you just do that instead The map is deliberately confusing.

Q: do you think it has aged well? Like a lot of puzzle dungeons, it wilfully throws up obscure things - but is this good design or a way to pad out a simple game? CSB was tough because even though the individual puzzles were hard, it was the fact that none of it made sense: I could never complete a puzzle and take soemthing from what I learned form that to the next puzzle, it was just too random.

CSB really strives to be lateral. Save often, leave trails of dropped items, travel light and carry a priest.

Thowing stuff, shooting arrows give Ninja level. Not so much being ninja skilled. The point is to get higher health.
A best training to do, is ninja for those who are low at this skill, they will get quick better health. Second best is fighter training for low fighters. Of cours priest and wizard upgrading to everybody.

The original CSB ( I played the Atari version ) had a hint oracle which was helpfull at the early stage, not much later.
To solve puzzles in CSB, you need carefull mapping with as much information as possible, tap all walls to detect invisiibles, inspect all wall for switches, inspect with thru wall vision to know what's behind.
Once done, re visit again for stuff that might have appeared. Beware of silent transportation, put stuff on the floor to check about tile continuity. You must be ready for anything to happen. You must be patient, checking things exaustively. Use zo kath ra s to mark the paths and detect false pits or see where it is a level below. Keep working under fire and magic shields.
Yes that is hard work ! But so rewarding when overcomed !

"Win without risk is to triumph without glory" From "Le Cid" Pierre Corneille. ( translated ).

that's it. It's not exactly fun, it's like hardwork: fighting through a three-dimensional soduku-logic-deathtrap. It is always intense and because of this, so rewarding.
Damn, I'm going to have to play this again. My poor Grimrock dreams...

There has been a "Death trap" dungeon ( not a DM dungeon ). The first part was fun. The second part was too deadly, no way it could be played. I remember mean dwarfs attacking with forks.

I have 2 versions of CSBwin but unfortunately they have both glitch and I don't know if it could be fix by settings of if my versions are bad. One has no sound and the numeric keypad of the other is not activate.

Sound is generally fixed by the use of DirectX. See the Volume menu.

You can map the keyboard any way you please using the config.txt.

The sound is fixed. that was too easy I can't tell what is the version on both CSBWin. It's said no information but everything work .

Thanks Paul

One day I should try your CSB game for a change.

The version number is displayed in menu 'Help/About'.

You were looking at the game version rather than the CSBWin version.

Now you see how rookie I am I found out these 2 versions are from you. They are 10.000 & 11.065. Do I need to keep both?

Thanks again