Dungeon Master Forum

Frankly I'm still in shock. I can't even begin to understand how bad this might get. Those who voted leave based on a feeling and without checking facts have basically destroyed Britain. It'll never be the same again.

yeah, "please first answer these 12 skill testing questions regarding the thing you're about to vote on". As long as it was focused on accurate information and required to be a 100% unbiased balance of the facts. That every voter got a package with very real information that was again, unbiased and thorough. Then to vote you had to answer on basic things contained within the document to prove you'd read it. I think it really could work.

After listening to those asking for a re-vote because they thought their vote wouldn't count.. I asked myself if this was a case of people growing up without really having a lesson in action/reaction, act vs consequence.. ? I mean it's not like it's a tiny impact we have here.. We have the streets awash with racist and violent acts and words with a feeling of somehow being entitled to do this?! There is a deeper divide between a union that has stood more than 730 years and may end as a result of this vote. The british peso... sorry.. pound.. is dropping like crazy. The citizens are googling "how to move to canada" like a bunch of rats jumping ship.. others are deeply concerned they'll be deported. I can go on.. but the point is, this is a HUGE disaster.. and the people who are happy with their vote are standing on a burning ship and saying "Yeah.. this is awesome" ..

Please don't rub it in!

What is happening right now as regards the threats/violence/hate campaigns is so utterly appalling, i can barely stomach switching on the tv or picking up a newspaper.
Moronic thugs seem to be under the delusion (if it is a delusion... not much seems to have been done about it) that they can act exactly how they please toward whomever they choose.
Goes to show that these "people" decided without listening. These horrible miscreants actually believe that non-english people will be kicked out.

I am not so sure people are as stupid as some would suggest.
These people look about them, see that they are not getting
their fair share, and decide to do something different.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a better
result would be stupid.

I am donning my flame-resistant armour as I press 'ENTER'.

Einstein's definition of insanity.... but there is a difference here.
People who voted "leave" may have varying reasons for doing so, but most of them are delusions based on lies. Their 'share' was and is the same as for anyone else. The idea that hordes of immigrants are taking all available jobs or claiming benefits en masse is at best a gross exaggeration, and at worst an outright lie. Just looking at any recent census confirms this (depending on numbers from various media you choose to compare them to... which all seem to differ). The numbers just don't add up.

A great many people hadn't the faintest conception of most of the issues (if they even were 'issues') before Johnson & Co threw a farrago of badly researched drivel at them. The reason they had no conception is that on the whole, these issues don't exist or at least have no effect on people's personal lives. They were made manifest purely for personal political agenda.

If someone knew the facts and didn't care anyway, then there's nothing one can say. More fool them. Just the type of person i don't want to know. But for someone to suggest that they didn't think this downturn would happen is more than cavalier.... It's downright stupid. Every economic institution predicted it (maybe not as big as this, but a downturn nonetheless) Even a cursory search would reveal this, along with the lies. 350m a week to Brussels.... Lie! 60% of UK laws come from Brussels.... Lie!
Sorry, but anyone too lazy or ignorant to bother finding out can hardly complain when it actually happens. That is stupidity in my book.

The racists just assumed that leaving the EU would mean that current EU citizens living in the UK would be kicked out. They won't!
And now we're seeing a campaign of intimidation and threats. As far as i'm concerned, whether you're "leave", "remain", "don't know", or even "don't care".... this is not just unacceptable, but downright sub-human.

Lets' define stupid. Here's a few from popular online dictionaries:

"Lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull."
"Characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless;"
"Lacking intelligence or common sense."
"Having or showing a lack of ability to learn and understand things."

When you listen to some of the reasons people have for Leaving, they fit the above definitions of stupid:

"Mine was a protest vote [against the British government]"
"I wasn’t really voting to get out of the union, it was really like a protest because many, many years ago I voted one way and things turned out to the another and I decided there and then that I wasn’t going to let that happen again."
Fine, we get it, you're disillusioned and feel left behind. You feel that the government does not care about you. I get it, I understand it. But understand this: The EU is not the British government. The things that worry many of the Leave voters are not caused by the EU. They are caused by decisions made by the British government.

This was a binary choice election about remaining in the EU. Anyone with even a basic grasp of what they were voting for would have realised that a protest vote against the British government is meaningless in a referendum about EU membership. It IS stupid to make a protest vote for something entirely different from what the vote is actually about.

“I didn’t think my vote was going to matter too much because I thought we were just going to remain.”
If you don't think your vote matters, why are you voting? Stupid. If you thought we would remain, why didn't you vote Remain? Stupid.

"I think I kinda regret my vote, I had no real reason to pick what I did!!"
Whaaat? STUPID.

"It's all about immigration. It's not about trade, or Europe or anything like that."
It's about all of those things. You can't make a decision about EU membership based only on ONE ISSUE. STUPID.

There was another quote I can't find right now, but paraphrasing: "Sometimes you have to walk off the cliff and hope for change." Well unless the laws of gravity have changed in your faintly held grasp of reality, or you've grown a set of wings, you're going to fall to your death you idiot. STUPID.

The hate crimes that are now happening all over Britain seem to have a similar message: "We voted you out. Go home." People who voted thinking that this would be the result for EU citizens living in Britain clearly have no understanding of what their rights are. STUPID.

Deprived areas in the UK that rely on EU subsidies are the areas that will be most affected by a Leave vote. Most of these areas voted to Leave. This appears to be a case of gross uninformed stupidity, akin to not just shooting yourself in the foot, but chopping your own legs off.

Obviously I've been selective with these quotes, and obviously it's not the whole picture. There are clearly much more complex and nuanced issues determining why people chose Remain or Leave. Nevertheless, on this question of stupidity , I think a lot of Leave voters have demonstrated theirs extremely well.

I have hopes that we will be OK in the long term, but the next few years are going to be really bloody horrible and it's because a large chunk of our population were too witless to understand what they were voting for.

[Note: I personally don't think we should have ever been given this referendum, as none of us had the capacity to make a fully informed decision about how to vote.]

Gambit37 wrote:Frankly I'm still in shock. I can't even begin to understand how bad this might get. Those who voted leave based on a feeling and without checking facts have basically destroyed Britain. It'll never be the same again.

I'm afraid I agree completely. It hurts me a lot to see this happening to the cradle of democracy and freedom, to the country that I've always looked at with admiration and hope.

So, would it be a good idea to have a second referendum, or to bring the topic to the Parliament and vote to Remain? I mean, hell, most of the MPs, politicians and ordinary people really don't want to leave now! Majority actually doesn't want it to happen!

They're still banging on about it on the News here, of course...I wonder if there is actually any other news that they should probably be reporting on as well . It bugs me that they keep saying stuff like "Britain wants this" or "the British people voted for this". Umm, no we didn't. Just over half of the people who voted voted for this, and it turns out that apparently a load of them have now realised that actually they didn't really want it anyway (or knew that to begin with but still voted to leave) . And it's being talked about like it's such a certain thing, that it's definitely going to happen, but it still might not. Ugh.

Paul Stevens wrote:These people look about them, see that they are not getting their fair share, and decide to do something different.

Gambit37 wrote:There was another quote I can't find right now, but paraphrasing: "Sometimes you have to walk off the cliff and hope for change." Well unless the laws of gravity have changed in your faintly held grasp of reality, or you've grown a set of wings, you're going to fall to your death you idiot.

These mentalities resonate with me especially because that seems to be the justification of many Trump supporters. The way things are isn't working, the establishment isn't helping them, so they're going to support the guy who is out there and different. Nothing about him really matters other than that he's not the same thing. It doesn't matter that he doesn't have an actual coherent policy, or that he seems pretty unqualified, or any of that. All that matters is he's not those guys.

... and, of course, this is a terrible way of thinking, because different might well be worse. But a lot of people have it.

I'm sorry Gambit, didn't mean to rub anything in.. just frustrated. Here in Canada we're seeing some small impact in our currency and there is concern over how this change impacts us as a country. There are a lot of deep emotions for us due to the connection we feel with the UK. People were yelling "boo" when our prime minister was speaking about us moving forward..

Oddly, as I'm in animation, I'm reminded of the road runner cartoons. Where the coyote paints a road way into the wall and the road runner runs through it, but the coyote smashes into the painted wall. From what I've read, it feels like some of the higher ups are the roadrunner and the rest of the public are going to smash into the wall. The most well thought out argument for "leave", was regarding the bigger companies reaching their market with trade deals they had more control over. Not quite sure how this benefits the rest of you though..

After seeing footage of the big EU meeting today with no UK member there, it started to hit home..... Oh $%!t, this is really happening!
What is abundantly apparent from this is that Johnson's assertion that we'd still "have access" to the single market is a delusion. We won't! Or if we do, it will be with certain restrictions. I'm reading between the lines here, but anyone with half a brain could have predicted a hard-line stance from EU members.
It wouldn't do to cut the UK a sweet deal, or everyone would want it.... Obvious!
Hollande and Rojoy have already refused to acknowledge Scotland's case, causing further division. Unless something extraordinary happens, the break-up is inevitable.

Theresa May to be the next PM. It's the first good news IMHO, better than I hoped - of course she's not perfect but from all the potential candidates she's definitely the best for the job. Oh, and she studied geography, by the way .

We were promissed chaos and more when the results came out on the 24th of june.

It happened to me, I had a look at the exchange rate Euros/ Australian dollars, over the last month.
No chaos there...At all.
Exchange rate €/AUD stable before and up to the 20 th, where there is a 2.8% Euro drop, next the rate is fairly stable.

No chaos, a 2.8% step on the 20 th of june. Finance worldwide knew it all.

Jan wrote:Theresa May to be the next PM. It's the first good news IMHO, better than I hoped - of course she's not perfect but from all the potential candidates she's definitely the best for the job. Oh, and she studied geography, by the way .

Theresa May is the least awful candidate out of a terrible bunch of megalomaniacs, sociopaths, egomaniacs and pathetic losers. Calling her the best candidate is akin to calling Pol Pot the best candidate to wage mass genocide, given himself and Hitler as possible candidates.

She may be 'best', but I'm left remaining extremely worried about the future of Britain.

As I don't follow politics, I hadn't even heard of Theresa May till she was mentioned occasionally during the lead-up to the EU vote thingy. The though randomly occurred to me yeterday that her initials, the initials of our second ever female PM, are the reverse of the initials of the other female PM. Not that I can remember what she was like, being a bit too young for that . Anyway, weird concidence, lol.

Would be nice if her character was the reverse that other! Doubt it though. I'm afraid i'm with Gambit on this. Just very slightly less dreadful than the other runners.

Dear oh dear, Boris Johnson is the Foreign Secretary... now, that is the bad news. Apart from the fact that he's a complete loony and totally unsuitable for the job, he'll be a continuous embarassment for Britain abroad. For us foreigners, though, this might be quite funny - we've lost Gaddafi with his circus, so now we'll have Johnson. Why couldn't he get a more suitable department, like Wales Office or Food Standards Agency?

Clearly the new PM is keeping him sweet for whatever reason, but it's still an extraordinary appointment by any stretch of the imagination.
I genuinely cannot think of anyone less suited to be Foreign Sec.

Maybe she wants him to make a complete fool of himself on the World scene (not very difficult, can happen this week already) and then get rid of him once and for all?

Hammond gets the Treasury, it's a good news on the other hand, he's dull but efficient and reasonable.

Ah Boris. The man who did not expect Leave to win and had no plan if they did. Who now has to represent Britain's interests across the globe. For a prime-minister with whom he apparently fundamentally disagrees on everything.

How much more hollow laughing will I have to do to get through this?

At least that dead-eyed weasel Osborne has gone. Silver linings.

So this is how it starts...

"Long queues at Dover may be the first sign of what it means to live outside the European Union"
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/edi ... 53466.html

I would be surprised if France purposefully allowed delays to build up just out of anger. Maybe if problems arise they won't rush to fix them as quickly as they would have in previous times, but I can't see them creating problems.

It does not take much to delay and screw things up in France. Just a bunch of angry people is far eough. I had hours delay crossing from england to France back from a stay in Ireland.
I firstly had delay on the english coast, this made me try a terrible bredkfast at a local greasy spoon. Hours later, happy on the way, the ferry circled around for more because the strike in France had not finished yet. Well I had plenty of time to watch nice cliffs and a idle harbor. This was many years ago, on a Dover or Newhaven to Dieppe ferry.

terkio wrote:It does not take much to delay and screw things up in France.

They do have a fondness for strikes, it must be said.

The letter is signed. Britain is leaving the EU.

I'm not a religious man, but please pray for us. Most of us didn't want this. And now we're all deeply concerned about what comes next.

but please pray for us

You think *YOU* need prayers? We have Mr. Trump. I think
you should pray for us.

True, true. These are strange times and I wouldn't have wished Trump on anyone.

It's like the USA and UK are in a weird competition to see who can screw up their country the most. "Hold my beer..."

Yeah...what even is going on right now in either of our countries?

I wonder who needs the prayers most... because both the UK and the US will somehow muddle through as they always did in the dark days of the past, they will pass through this valley of tears and re-emerge, scathed and lessened, but still democratic and free. But in the meantime, all the dictators, potentates and lunatics of the World will do what they can when the cops are not around. I'm really worried here under the long shadow of Mr. Putin, with the Atlantic bond weakened... I'm just holding my breath, and waiting, for the elections in France, and in Germany, wondering what's going to happen with the EU... hoping...

We should all probably sing "We shall overcome..."