Dungeon Master Forum

Hi all!

Do you consider the combat system of DM (klicking weapon, then choosing one of the attack types) to be outdated and cumbersome?
Do you prefer the way EoB or even Grimrock handles combat in that its just a right klick on the item?

Or do you think the system of different attacks per weapon (connected to your fighter level for example), adds depth and a sense of progression?

I personally like the DM system of doing things much more, but two critiques I read recently which compared the DM system vs. the newer ones both pointed out the DM way as sluggish.

What is your opinion on this matter?

I think on balance I probably prefer the DM way more, since it gives you a choice between attack types, so you can usually hit faster but for less damage, or harder and less often. Which is kind of what you can do with an actual weapon, rather than, say, all swords always attacking the exact same way.

Thank you for the input!

Anyone else would like to reveal their preference, we are in a debate right now if we want to use:

A) The "dumbed down" right klick way to attack like EoB has done it for example
or
B) Using something similar to the old DM system in that weapons get different ways to attack.

Hroth

Personally prefer the variation in the DM system.
I don't really consider it cumbersome. One click/two clicks... fraction of a second.
Also allows even greater variation in custom dungeons.

I prefer the old way. Even if it's slower by three or four frames.

My father would prefer if the game paused while you selected the attack, something that I wish would happen too, but that's the way it is in real life (plus, it would be really complicated to program something like that). No extra time to decide.

IMO, DM system is good and non specialized : what about a staff with different spells ? with only a single click, how would you choose the action ?
It also allows for some throwable items to choose between throwing it or attacking hand-to-hand with it. It allows some tactics against creatures -- choose the best weapon move, and brings new weapon ability with certain skill level -- that "sense of progression".
The drawback of single-action system is that you would either need to switch your weapon depending on the creatures you fight if the weapon has special stats vs different creatures types, or you may end in systems where you only check the "average damage" of the weapon, regardless whether it's a sword or an axe or something else ...

One idea to remove one click : when you fly over the weapon symbol, it automatically spreads into several buttons (for different actions). Then you click.

plus, it would be really complicated to program something like that

Having a pause when choosing action ? I don't think so. I even think it was more difficult to make a real time fight like in DM than pausing for choosing an action (check D&D CRPG style). Certainly due to that era's procedural code-style programming (with no multi-threads).

I'm ambivalent.

I like the DM style because it offers nuanced combat choices and progressively reveals a champion's growth/capabilities. But it is a bit slow to play by today's standards.

I like the immediacy of a single click, Grimrock style, although it lacks subtlety and feels reductive. But it's fast and suits the game.

To remove the attack choices from DM would make it a different game. And that's fine if that's what you want.

With today's high resolution graphics, you could easily fit 3 small icons for the 3 attacks of a weapon in the area where DM displays the weapon icon.
In that way, all 3 attacks of all 4 weapons would be accessible with a single click.

My eyesight isn't the same as it was when I first started playing DM on my Apple IIGS in 1990. "3 small icons" would probably be hard for me to see what they are, even though my monitor is much larger than the 13" AppleColor RGB monitor used by my Apple IIGS.

That said, I'm mixed about it. For some weapons, the later options completely replace the former, such as with the falcon where I never use "Swing" or "Parry" once I get "Chop". That said, Parry always seemed kind of useless to me.
The axe is an even better example, once you move from Swing to Chop (as a neophyte fighter), you never use swing again, and once you get melee, you never use chop again.

On the other hand, it works extremely well for the magical items with charges, so I do like the system better than EOB.

On the other hand, EOB does have buttons to throw or melee, and that could work for a modern system as the buttons in DM are big enough they could be divided into three in order to allow you to choose all the options, just as long as they are not "small icons" that you have to be VERY careful to not accidentally click the wrong thing and waste a precious charge or throw something you meant to melee.

Me, I like the DM system.

EotB 3 went overboard - one click, all weapons attack. I like the delicacy of the DM system, and discovery - ie the stab of the DIamond Edge (original - RTC version unintentionally reduces this attack power)

How about a combination of systems? In DM, right clicking on the attack box does not attack (I know it opens inventory, but ignore that for a moment). How about if you left click it does the last action you used on that item (if you last used Melee, left click does Melee) or the top choice if you haven't chosen one. If you right click, it shows the list of options. Then you can set which options you're using and during more frenetic combat, you can just left click away based on what you used last.

Thank you all for your input!
I also thought about a possibility of what Zolaerla proposed to safe klicks, maybe such a feature will be implemented as well, right now we decided to "safe UI space" in that we combined the "right" and the "top" UI bar function-wise to free up more room for different things (for example visible portraits for all 4 chars) and make it smoother.
Now, if you left klick an Item in hand you pick it up, if you right klick it you open an attack menu.