Dungeon Master Forum

I started DM again and started thinking about what levels I liked and what ones I was less fond of (basically which ones I went through as quickly as possible, and which ones I spent more time on).

Favourite level for me is still level 3. Not just because of the screamer room, I also liked the challenge of the worm swarms before you reach there. Honourable mentions are level 6 (Tomb of the Firestaff), level 11 (hunted down by oitus!), and level 2 (choose your door, choose your fate).

My least favourite has to be level 7. Wide-open! Fireballs flying everywhere! Surprising pits! Also it has two creatures that I dislike: ghosts and especially gigglers. And even after all this time I still don't know where I am going on this level, I just keep on pressing buttons until I can escape. No honourable mentions in this category - this one stands on its own for me.

Dislike:
Level 9-The Zoom level.
Scorpions - Flying Eyes - Gigglers. All together just prior to
descent to the Clockwise maze. Can occasionally be difficult.

Like:
Hard to choose. But, unlike oh_brother, I rather like 7, The Arena, since
I figured it out.

My favorite one is still the 2nd Floor (i.e., Choose Your Door, Choose Your Fate). There's something about that part of the game that is fun for me since you can still take out a lot of the enemies using thrown objects but you occasionally have to face creatures like the Rockpiles with a melee weapon, too.

My least favorite would probably be Floor 10 since that is the one with the "clockwise" puzzle. Floor 11 isn't my favorite, either, thanks to all of the Animated Armors and Materializers...


--Jay

Well, I tend to skip Level Five these days, because it holds nothing super important and I can't be arsed with the Flying Snakes. I also don't really like Level Ten (Scorpions, bleh, also Beholders, which are also the main down side to Level Six) and will try to zoom through the last half of Level Twelve as quickly as possible, mainly because Spell Vines are such an arse. As for levels I like...well, Level Three is pretty fun because you have all these nice little separate sections you can go into. And Level Eleven isn't too bad 'cause I always pick the route that contains Blue Trolls, which are super easy to blast through by that point . Oh, and Level Fourteen, because fighting the Dragon is fun .

No votes for level 14? that Dragon. In fact all the big beasties, like the Scorpions on level 10.

Levels 2 and 3 were both really great levels to start the quest with, the intro and the sense of choice... Level 3 is another standout...
And Level 5 gets skipped a lot but it's like another Level 3 for me: lots of little side rooms to explore, but you don't have to.

Shame the final few levels were all a bit of a mess for me: Clockwise to Lord Chaos - nothing too memorable, but some nice combat I guess.

So Ful-bomb-to-head-Favourite: Level 3, Choose your Fate.

Fourteen was the last level I mentioned in my message .

My favourite was always level 8 (the arena). It took me ages to complete first time round when in reality, all you have to do is pick a key up from the floor and leave. Dodging the fireballs whilst running after Gigglers is always fun.

My least favourite is level 5 (poisoned lair). It could have been as good as level 3 (Choose Your Door) but most of it can be bypassed because you already have the items needed to proceed on the next level. In fact, the first time I played it, I followed the long corridor to the Riddle Room, solved them all, carried on and didn't remember until much later that I hadn't explored the rest of level 5.

I was going to go with the worm level, but I think I’ll settle on knights/oitus/materializers as my favourite. Probably not a popular choice, but it always puts me in mind of my first playthrough more than any other level, because even though there were other challenging levels it was that one that was really breaking me (my characters were not well levelled) and I remember how happy I was when I finally got through it.

My least favourite, as it seems is many other people’s on here, is the store rooms. Pretty much for the same reason Ian mentioned in the previous post. I think some of the items for the riddle room should only have been available in the store rooms.

It seems that am the only one to dislike the Arena. Also I never liked Clockwise, but I didn't add it to my non-preferred list because the rest of that level is fine.

It seems that the Store Rooms are not popular. I still like them, but I do them gradually. I sit in the screamer room for some training, and when I feel the need to explore I pop downstairs to the store rooms for a bit to try out my newly enhanced skills, before heading back to my screamer camp. (I will never break any speed-run records, and I am ok with that ).

Considering the unforgettable first time I played DM, every level is the best.
At every level, it looked impossible to make it through, then was a great achievement to make it.
Up to the end, the question was, how far will I be able to go ?
That was at a time, it was doubtful someone had ever found an end game.
Nowadays, it is granted such games have an end, a glorious one with all explained and achieved.

Favourite- the knight level. I just like knights - and especially destroying them with the diamond edge.
Least favourite - the firestaff level. A bit bland and boring!

I´ve always been quite fond of the level 7/8

"The Arena".

And the "knight level" - too, guess that´s number 11?

Depends how you count them - the one with the Knights is Level Twelve if you count the Hall of Champions as Level One, but some people don't so each level is one lower.

terkio wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:09 pm Considering the unforgettable first time I played DM, every level is the best.
At every level, it looked impossible to make it through, then was a great achievement to make it.
Up to the end, the question was, how far will I be able to go ?
That was at a time, it was doubtful someone had ever found an end game.
Nowadays, it is granted such games have an end, a glorious one with all explained and achieved.

Interesting. I remember my first time playing the real game instead of the "kid's dungeon" (long story, a friend got DM first, but it didn't work on his ROM 3 Apple IIGS, although oddly the "kid's dungeon DID" I didn't get it until my birthday the next Feburary and this was in the summer) I didn't have too much trouble with the monsters until I got eaten by a worm. The puzzles on level 3 "Choose Your Door, Choose Your Fate" on the other hand were interesting and challenging, with "Creature Cavern" obviously supposed to be a challenge of fighting the monsters.
That said, I always found that level 5 "Treasure Stores" to be less fun, and I found the pit maze and teleporter room just annoying for some reason, and these days just use a guide. It didn't help that the hint book for DM's solution had errors for the pit maze.
I can't really say why I didn't like that level as much as level 3. Still, there is some useful treasure in there. Mostly the dagger (vital for working on ninja levels) and the medium armor. While not as good as mirthirl mail, if you aren't taking ONLY strong people like Halk, Stamn, Hisssa, Daroou, or Sonja, you'll want some medium armor as plate mail is too heavy. The hosen, leg mail, mail aketon, and helmet is worth getting, as is the casque and coif. You'll also want to pick up the chest for extra storage, and the poison darts are nice but not vital. While I usually do use the Ekkhard cross through the end of the game, it's simply because of lack of anything more useful to put on that champion's neck. Ditto for Gem of Ages.

Another puzzle that annoyed me for some reason was "Clockwise Room". The rest of the level was fine, but that one puzzle for some reason I just find annoying. Well, except there should have been an extra copper coin. I found it annoying to have to go all the way back from the dragon's lair for the disappointing treasure. By that point an extra ven potion, FUL bomb, magical box, or the food isn't very useful. Stone golems aren't affected by the bombs, and Lord Chaos is immune to magic boxes as well as all damage.

One other thing I find annoying was the lack of enough skeleton keys. It just seemed pointless to leave one out so you can open all the floors but one. There was no reason not to include just one more key. Especially since you don't know the first time to NOT open level 10, as you won't have a reason to return, but you will have a reason to return to 11 (I mentioned it above).

It is interesting how differently people view the various levels
of Dungeon Master. Perhaps that is its secret to fame - having
something for everybody. It is amenable to speed runners, grinders,
careless exploration, careful planning, mapping, and even cheaters like
myself.

Oddly enough while I've cheated in other games, I don't recall ever cheating in Dungeon Master. Partially because for the first couple years I had no way to do so. I didn't get anything that worked on 3.5" disks until 3 years after getting Dungeon Master, and it was a year or two after getting DM before I got Copy II+ with it's 5.25" "sector editor".
My version of DM also blocks the Control Panel so I couldn't use "Visit Monitor" to edit the memory directly.

Favorite is the zoooom level (pun for Ameena's comment). So many interesting things to figure out, as far as the best way to fight.
Plus Speedbow and a great axe, as well as the well-hidden speedboots.

Honorable mention to the Clockwise level. Also has some great spots and creatures (poison cloud hall was fun).
I have never figured a logical path to get through the Clockwise section. I just stumble around until I get everything and then get through.

Least favorite floor is the dragon (???dragon???) floor (sorry boyflea). It seems that it may have scared me a bit, the first time I found it, but was a total disappointment to me. I admit that I had a good time killing it with a coin, flask, etc., and especially with a hunk of corbomite.
That was about the time someone told us that Chuck Norris had once killed it from the the first floor
by simply yelling at it (can't remember the actual term in the game and I'm too lazy to check).

Favorite: Firestaff level. It was the most mysterious level when I was young, lots of secrets and interesting doors. Ra key doors, ruby key door, turquoise key doors, master key door, winged key, the firestaff.

Least favorite: Maybe the clockwise level, three paths but only two are accessible. I think I spent a long time looking for another cross key (as well as another skeleton key later). Also not too much going on on that level and the wasps are annoying, might be speed run flashbacks.

Until I found their weakness to poison clouds, I found wasps to be the second most annoying monsters after gigglers.
Resistant to weapons, a fireball usually only killed one out of two+.

Antman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:56 pm Favorite: Firestaff level. It was the most mysterious level when I was young, lots of secrets and interesting doors. Ra key doors, ruby key door, turquoise key doors, master key door, winged key, the firestaff.

Least favorite: Maybe the clockwise level, three paths but only two are accessible. I think I spent a long time looking for another cross key (as well as another skeleton key later). Also not too much going on on that level and the wasps are annoying, might be speed run flashbacks.

Rock Men also, on the Firestaff level, were a challenge the first time through. I always hated using the freeze-life boxes, so I had to be more patient.

They seemed tougher than they were, not that they aren't tough. The main issue is that the first time you don't realize they are immune to fireballs and poison, and by the time you meet them even Halk, Stamn Sonja and Leela are decent wizards. Heck, I didn't realize they were NOT immune to lightning bolts until reading the hint book and I don't think I've ever managed to kill one with lightning.
Actually, they were like a combo of rockpiles and animated armor. Fought the same way as rockpiles except that poison clouds and fireballs were useless like animated armor.

If you're talking about the stone golem dudes I only bother killing the ones blocking the route to Inquisitor because there isn't really any way to get around them, so I just make good use of the doors along that corridor to deal with them. I don't even think I see any of the others.

Yeah - it was kind of funny watching Antman's speed playthrough where he just darted past the golems and grabbed the Firestaff without actually having to fight anything. During my own playthrough, I actually made a point to kill every single one of them...


--Jay

Ameena wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:39 am If you're talking about the stone golem dudes I only bother killing the ones blocking the route to Inquisitor because there isn't really any way to get around them, so I just make good use of the doors along that corridor to deal with them. I don't even think I see any of the others.

I believe I chose to 'lure' those (two?) stone golems in that corridor all the way to the room with all the scrolls (past the section with the four elements) one time. Poor little stone golems. I hated to kill them. Instead, I trapped them (for all eternity?) in that room. Hey, they had more room to enjoy, compared to the corridor.

After the first couple of times through, I chose the 'grab and run' option on the other two stone golems.

Actually, I do take it back about the stone golems. Some Champions can be 1-hit killed by them. I'm just so used to picking the literally strongest champions that also coincidentally have enough health to take a hit that I forgot about that. A party of Halk, Stamn, Daroou, and Hisssa can take a hit. A party of Tiggy, Gando, Chani, and Wu Tse on the other hand could be 1-hit ko by them even of all are UM Master Ninja and Fighters and the front liners drank shield potions.
I usually try to clear them out so I don't risk being sandwiched between two of them as that's a death sentence. I'll even grind ninja levels against the two that are stuck guarding the Firestaff by punching them to death. Usually I use daggers or toss stuff to work on ninja levels, but punching works better against golems and rockpiles.

I can't be arsed to kill them, since you don't need to in order to get anything. I only kill the two guarding the Inquisitor because they're, you know, guarding the Inquisitor and I want it . The others I just completely ignore, I don't even see them - I just grab the Firestaff and make my way out.

I think there was good rhythm you could get into to take them out without too much hassle. Four (or maybe three) punches then retreat one square as they advance, rinse and repeat. Seemed to be the quickest way to dispatch them.

Something like that, I can never recall. I just drink shield potions for my front liners and count until the first attack. I always pick champions strong enough to take a hit, then run away and heal, then go back and do hit and run attacks.
I might be more cautious if I used characters like Boris, Tiggy, Gando, Chani, Wu Tse, or Wuuf, but I don't like weaklings that can get 1-hit KO if I have the misfortune to accidentally get too close to a monster (although even champions like Iaido or Linflas have been known to be 1-hit KO by couatls).
Honestly, I haven't tried a party with the weakest champions in around 30 years, and I can't believe it's been that long.

oh_brother wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:46 pmMy least favourite has to be level 7. Wide-open! Fireballs flying everywhere! Surprising pits! Also it has two creatures that I dislike: ghosts and especially gigglers.

My thoughts exactly. The open space and the mayhem of it coupled with the ghosts and gigglers gets on my nerves. Definitely my least favourite level.

On the opposite scale, I always enjoy level 4 (listed as level 5 on some sites) due to the puzzles, but I don't like the rock creatures even though closing the gate on them can speed up their demise.

The open area on Floor 7 is definitely the worst place to encounter Gigglers, since they can be difficult to track down if they manage to escape after stealing some of your items.

In the SNES version of the game, there is a hidden room on the Northeast side of this floor which has a huge number of Gigglers in it who are guarding a DexHelm [an item not normally available in most versions of Dungeon Master]. If you block the only exit to the hidden room immediately after activating the switch to open the room, you can trap the Gigglers inside and slowly dispatch them with Fireballs until there are few enough of them left for you to be able to enter the room and kill off the stragglers without too much risk of any of them escaping. However, you need to watch out for Gigglers in the main open area of the floor approaching you from behind, stealing some items, and escaping to who knows where while you are doing this since you won't be able to pursue them without allowing the Gigglers in the hidden room to escape.....


--Jay