Education as a game developer.

[Rasmus]

I have just got in to a three year long education as a gamedeveloper
But I am still uncertain of what the education accually will give me..
In the program I will learn computerscience, gamestudies and gamedesign, C# and various languages, physics for computergames and some other stuff..
I can figure out that most of these courses only will learn me the basic stuff. With my experience of programming I guess that I would't learn that much, even if I know that I have some basic gaps from my selflearning period..
The reason that I choosed to go this eduction is that I can't get into any gamedevelopment company without a education backing me up, and I also guess it will give me some priceless connections in the gameprogramming world that I wouldn't get anywhere else.

Anyone that have gone to a simular eduction maybe can give me some clues of what I should expect from this education

[cowsmanaut]

well, the thing I can tell you as a teacher who has gifted students all the time, is that those students who have already gained a lot of skill can go one of two ways. One, they can learn nothing and sit on the praise of their classmates who think them god like, in their abilities... or, they can take advantage of the teachers who have an experience and insight that will allow them to move beyond. To ask the good questions even though they know a lot, there is still advice to be offered.. new ways of solving an issue. If the teachers have the experience they have so much to offer in that area.

Don't accept that you are advanced and just wait for the paper at the end of the course. Say, what can these teachers offer me? Think beyond the lesson. Show you have the skill, and the advanced advice can sometimes follow.

[Rasmus]

That is some really good advice cows. I remember from school that I was really good at math and physics, and therefore went far beyond my classmates with some help from a excellent teacher. But I can also say that these was the only subjects I was any good at.
My goal secondary goal with education is ofcourse to learn more. When it comes to subjects I am not interested in, my motivation goes totally down and it often ends up with me barley finishing the course. But on the other hand when it comes to something I am interested in, my motivation goes though the roof. Sometimes I wish that my motivation could be alittle bit more stable, but then again..
Well I hope that the teachers are as good as the math teacher I had when I went to school, but then again, the classes was alot smaller then and the teachers had more time for each student.

[Bit]

Congratulations Rasmus - and listen to cows!
If you got any advance - good for you, but no reason to take it easy.
It just gives you some extra time to study the more complicated stuff.
And NEVER ask the question: Is it worth the effort?
This has been the last question of my main teacher in school - I later asked myself this question in my studies and answered it with no - which was the main fault in my life.
See what happens to me now - it's mostly all about papers. Those are the entry cards for the main game! And this got written by others - and you have to accept the rules, or you're dead!!!
Usually in that age it's all about motivation - because you really can't have the overview and miss easily that the critical point is lack of self-responsibility!
I wouldn't want to raise a finger if that wouldn't be really dangerous - because from now on, a second chance is rarely given, and there's no reset button.

[oh_brother]

Good advice from both Bit and Cows. Cows is bang on the money when he says that talented students develop in one of two different ways. It ends up that two people with the same ability come out of a course with dramatically different experiences.

I must add that as a teacher myself I am very happy when someone is interested enough to chat about the course (or even better, chat at a level beyond the course). So if you have interested teachers they will be happy to discuss your other projects or experience.

I don't know much about the specifics of your course, or about computer science in general, so I cannot comment on that part of the question.

[Bit]

I just wish that this school is of any importance and that Rasmus' talents aren't wasted there.
Then again, one can make things important

[Rasmus]

@oh_brother: Well that have been my experience with most teachers, that they often shines up when talking to them about the course outside the lessons. I guess if I would have been a teacher learning out something I am genuine interested in and getting a good respons, I would leave after a hard days work with a smile on my face

@bit: Thank you for congratulating me I can say that the "Is it worth it?" question fell over my not so long ago.. I was going for a education as a astrophysicist, but after one year I felt discourage and decided to go for a gameprogramming education, I guess I will come alot further in life if I choosed a carrier that also is my hobby. So I quit the course even if I only had a couple of months left before completing my first year. The wise choise here should have been to continue til the end of the year so that I would have gotten some grades to show up later and not have to redo it if I decided later in life to go back to that education.
It all happend sort of sudden and I just said to myself "Why continue something I am not interested in?".

Anyway, I am very excited to know what this education will give me. And I really hope that everything isn't too basic in the beginning..

[zoom]

if it is basic at the beginning, then show you have more under the hood. Soon you should get involved into more demanding projects

[Bit]

...and if anyone comes and says gaming isn't serious, just tell him:
It's not that one stops gaming because one ages, one ages because he stopped gaming!

[Rasmus]

Hehe, I must say that I get some diffrent reactions when I tell some what I want to do with my life.. People that have a background playing games understands the hard work behind the games, but people that hasn't played alot of games in their lifetime doesn't think about it as a job, more like some childish hobby..
But as I have read in some forums, gameprogramming is one of the hardest jobs out there, keeping up with the technology and competing on that market isn't easy..

[Paul Stevens]

keeping up with the technology

I've never done it. But I can imagine that
the push to get everything done yesterday
at zero cost is one of the great disincentives
of such a job.

[Rasmus]

I've never done it.

I can't say that I have done it either.. But once or twise a year I look around on the net checking out the news in the gameprogramming world, new shader versions, better ways to handle rain, fire, fur, monster AI, etc.. And whenever a gamecompany releases a game in the same genre with improved graphic I fall behind. So if I would create a game with todays standard, I would have to create it within a year so that it isn't unmodern when it is released, and before creating it I would have to study all these "news" and see if I could insert them in the game. And that is alot of work! I understand why the gamecompanies has a horde of programmers..
All I can say is that DMT 2 has a graphic standard of when direct3D 9 was released, and now Direct3D 11 is on the market..

[Sophia]

Of course, the model of thinking that any game has to use the latest and greatest of technology is part of why so much of the game industry is in a self-destructive spiral. Seriously, what is the claim to fame of Crysis, other than it took computers 3 years of evolution before your average gamer's PC was able to handle it?

[Rasmus]

I read a paper the other day about compering direct3d 9 to direct3d 10.. The person writing the paper also interviewed some gamecompanies, or programmers for those companies. One question was if they used direct3d 10 in their gamedevelopent. And everybody said no! Because of the reason that most of the gamers graphiccard didn't have support of direct3d 10 (This was shortly after direct3d 10 was released). I can image that scenarios like this can save the gamedevelopers some time to learn the new engines before using them

[Sophia]

A large part of the problem keeping DirectX 10 from being adopted was that Microsoft decided that XP would stop at version 9, and DX 10 was to be Vista-only. And Vista was a piece of crap that a lot of people wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, so it wasn't available to nearly as many gamers.

[PadTheMad]

I finished my degree in Computer Games Development nearly two years ago now and it was the best four years of my life. Not just the social life but the actual education - the sheer amount of knowledge I was exposed to was overwhelming. The course was run by an ex-games developer and an AI expert. The course taught much of what you described in your original post, and I certainly learned a lot from it, however I entered the course with next to no programming knowledge at all so I was bound to learn something. However most of the lecturers at my University were always willing to provide extra knowledge / work if you just asked for it. In fact, a number of us often had extra lessons taught on advanced subjects because we wanted to learn more.

A lot of my coursemates went straight into industry after finishing the course, and a fair few are now working in high-profile games studios. Whilst you feel the course may be superfluous to what you already know, hopefully you will learn more through the fountain of knowledge that are your tutors and books

[Bit]

keeping up with the technology

I've never done it. But I can imagine that
the push to get everything done yesterday
at zero cost is one of the great disincentives
of such a job.

I update myself each five to ten years - but still like a keyboard more than a mouse!
See - I just made the old DJGPP-compiler running on my notebook again...

Still - DX11 could be a challenge, there's so much new in it.
Depends on having the money for new hardware now.
Motivation also depends on the environment - but you people could bring me back on my feet again.
What I dislike at the situation: all the FX-power of the graphicchips is still some kind of cheating. The power to render correct is still not given. And so no one knows with which tricks they come and which ones will die the next day. And if I hate something, then it is in and out. Or such things like 'strcpy is unsafe - use strcpy_s instead'.

[Rasmus]

@Sophia: Hehe, I read what you wrote just after posting it, the funny thing is that my working collages was saying exactly the same thing as you at the same moment "I loved win 2000, xp was okey.. But vista was a piece of crap! Thankfully I have windows 7.", and then I read your post and see you writing the same thing.. Personally I have nothing against Vista, I think it is okey and doesn't have more problems than xp..

@MadPad: Thanks for your words.. Now I really want to start the course I was also worried about working with it after graduating, but as you put it, there shouldn't be a problem. But it may be diffrent from town to town.. Do you live in a big city?

@bit: The good thing about directx 11, is that it works with graphiccards that only support dx 9 I have already been looking into some things there, and can't wait to get started with it Even if it will take atleast a year til then..

[PadTheMad]

Hi Rasmus, sorry for my late reply - I haven't had much time to check the forums lately. The town I live in is quite large, but it's not a very computer-oriented place. More and more web-development and IT jobs are appearing all the time but there are no games studios in my town and very few in neighbouring cities. It looks like I'd have to either relocate or set up my own studio if I want to work in the games industry any time soon

[Bit]

The other day I read an article about how much older people are engaged in different jobs.
Computer games marked the last place with 2.0%. Well - that's for today...

[Rasmus]

That is one of my biggest worries, that I have to work in another city.. But I know Malmoe have some larger gamecompanies, and alot of small ones. But I am not picky..
2.0%, then I guess the market is in a great need of some progammers

I will just have to see how it goes, I always have the job I am working in now to fall back on in the worst scenario. So I am not that worried about beeing out of job..

[Chaos-Shaman]

wow, lots of teachers here. thinking of two directions, i found them to be love and work, then there is one more direction, the two of them together. you're lucky if you can do that. seems like that's what you have going already Rasmus.