Ninja Training (Weight)

[666predator]

Does it matter if the thinks I'm throwing are heavy or not??? Is it the same if I throw a scroll or a Treasure Chest? Makes it a difference if I punsh against a Wall or an Enemy???

And on the other Hand, is there a Different if i try to achieve Magican Levels with fireball or by bolt???

[beowuuf]

Differnt spells give different experience, I think the more 'complex' the spell the bettre, I think there are findings on the encyclopaedia

If you are playing RTC, weight makes a difference, if you are playing normal DM...I'm not sure

[Des]

Boulder bunging gets you more XPs than scroll slinging. Hurling a Stone Golem's club (if you can find one) at a monster is worth a lot of ninja XPs in RTC and is much more fun. You always get more XPs (all classes) in combat than boring, onanistic solo training

[PaulH]

Just punch a monster. Much more effective!

[Lunever]

Throwing at monsters gives more XP than at walls. Recently I saved a game while a missile was still mid-air, and upon reloading the savegame I suddenly gained a ninja level the moment the missile struck home. Should be proof enough.

Weight does make a difference, as does damage inflicted. So yes, throwing heavy throwing weapons at monsters gives most ninja XP. Punching though does give damage-dependent XP too, but is currently a bit underrated in the engine imho.

[rain`]

Training ninja levels is pointless, you should have a lvl 4 master by the end of any game provided you abuse the diamond edge! tehehehe

Remember, stab on weapons gives ninja exp and is very fast! Never-the-less if you are really intent on training ninja levels, you're best bet is to abuse the ninja-rope... (Throwing takes effort and is very slow, ninja rope is extremly fast and you can just hold down a button ><). Remember to also only train while being *attacked* by monsters, and if you're using a weapon that attacks and does damage, train on harder monsters (lord chaos, black flames, demons, dragons, knights, etc). Screamers are crap. Lord chaos is great because he never dies and gives insane exp, but black flames are best because if you throw on a few fire shields (easy priest levels too!), they don't hurt you and you can even sleep infront of them!

[Lunever]

Notice though that rain's tips are primarily meant for FTL-DM/CSB and are not fully valid for RTC.

[Black hand Bika]

I found at the very beginning, punching was the quickest way to go. Just a couple minutes of it and you're either an apprentice ninja, have a few more hit points and ready to take on the dungeon.

I remember though I once aquired a joystick with an autofire button, and taped it down; Plugged it into where the mouse was and started punching. That saved alot of work.

[Trantor]

I remember though I once aquired a joystick with an autofire button, and taped it down; Plugged it into where the mouse was and started punching. That saved alot of work.

I remember my friend doing that as well, but I considered it cheating, so never did it. And welcome to the forums!

[zoom]

I did it at the screamer regeneration room, and do not consider it cheating.(you would have done it nevertheless)
what is the difference to
a) sitting in front of the computer and clicking frenetically until the screamer dies and waiting for the next one to
b)plugging in an autofire joystick to do the same work less efficiently and more dangerously(starvation) and go to bed?

I mean when you do the boring training , you could also forgive a
player when he searches for means to speed things up.
It is only logical and reasonable to do..
(if you considered training itself as a form of cheat , well , there you go, no sense in talking about different game philosophy )

I think it is more like cheating when you know that you get more exp. in lower levels(game mechanics exploitation) or when you would use a freezer to alter health values in stored memory.

ps. it took a while to get used to dm, so when you have played it 200 times through, it is less cheating to use autofire or exploit game mechanics than just doing it right from the start...

[Black hand Bika]

I didn't quite take full advantage of the punching thing to be considered cheating. I pretty much would gain a couple of lvls in Ninja in the hall of mirrors where there's lots of food & water, then at least gain a lvl in priest & wizard...didn't take more than 5 min for all. THEN I was ready.

I only used one person in the game though, I found it much easier to play...plus you can dodge fireballs by turning.

I think I played too long myself in the days...By the the end of it I was able to get to lvl 5 without the need of light....wow, I really must've had no life.

[Trantor]

The difference for me is that in one case, you do the necessary work (clicking) yourself, while in the other case, you don't need to actually do anything. You leave the game alone but sort of "pretend" playing it. Sure, clicking thousands of times in order to gain a level is incredibly boring, but at least you have earned it then. If you just leave the game and come back after half an hour, what have you done that deserves a level? Nothing, you didn't even spend time with the game.

Training in lower levels that have a higher mutiplier, however, is fine by me. You just use the game design to your advantage, but you still play the game and are within its limits and boundaries as long as you do train yourself. I once had the dream of training myself to Archmaster in all four classes, but I wanted to do it myself. I wanted to look back upon hours and hours of hard work and think to myself "I've earned it. I spent so much time and this game that I deserve it." Of course, I gave up that dream when it became too boring, but that is another story.

Today, I don't really care anymore about training. I do it in some dungeons that are exceptionally hard (I'm looking at you, Conflux), but it usually bores me too much to bother. But to each his own, that's the wonder of DM - you can play it in many different styles.

[zoom]

you are right trantor, we(I say we, bcs we played it with two amigas)wanted to see what the end of the level ladder was.
Never reached it. My savegame disk crashed, and I lost my party.
man was I pissed. I took over the party of my friend, which was, needless to say not the same...buhu! 3 days the computer ran over night and we managed to get to ee master fighter and priests(good old warcry: poor screamer got it all because it did not die!) priest and wizard you could not train autofire like(we did not know the level multiplier thing and did not know the firestaff throwing over the hidden trap seal the stairway circumvention trick like thing) *inhales air *,so we got to 3rd or 4th there as well. after said 3 days it got boring and got pointless, since once someone starved(4 characters, you see).
furthermore you could guess where it was going, the powerrunes /master level progression table was not that difficult to discern. But the archmaster thing we never knew.
well, that's the story to this one.

training is boring, and when does training begin? If you do it for an extended period of time while better being off to some descending into lower levels it could be cheating or at least a poor way of playing..at least it should be fun

[Black hand Bika]

The starvation thing was always a pain I found with 4 people as you were constantly having to watch your supplies...That's why I found one person easy...plus they gain levels quicker when you only have one person doing all of the work.

[Trantor]

The thought of only using one character never occured to me before I visited these forums. Having experimented with it a bit, I think that two is the optimal number (thanks to PaulH who told me about it). You don't lose attack power and have more space to store items than with only one character.

[beowuuf]

Yeah, I tend to like the doging spells ability, but agree loss of melee power is a concideration.

Oh, nice to see that ST:TNG avatar back again - I forgot about it!

[Black hand Bika]

True, you do have more storage space. But it is more difficult to dodge fireballs and missles with two people if you're shot at in narrow corridors.

[Sophia]

The thought of only using one character never occured to me before I visited these forums. Having experimented with it a bit, I think that two is the optimal number (thanks to PaulH who told me about it). You don't lose attack power and have more space to store items than with only one character.

Me too! I tried one once, but as a joke-- I thought it was suicide and I didn't think anyone seriously did it. I certainly didn't get very far.

And you (and Paul H) are right about two characters. Pretty much every dungeon I play, I take a team of two, now.

[Ameena]

I'm the same as Trant - never even thought of playing with less than four people before I joined the forum and saw people talking about it. And I also find a duo to be my preferred party now. You can still dodge spells - just turn to the side, as you would with a single character.

[Black hand Bika]

Me too! I tried one once, but as a joke-- I thought it was suicide and I didn't think anyone seriously did it. I certainly didn't get very far.

When playing that's all I pretty much used was one. I found Choosing Wuuf The Bika was the best start as he had decent mana, and a flask that you can start making pots with right away. You just had to be careful at the beginning. (throw lots of stuff, and cast as much as you can). Soon you'll gain enough levels to survive decently, and in the end, everything to pretty be a Mon Master in every class.

[Trantor]

Mon Master in every class? I didn't quite get that high, but it is true that my reincarnated Petal in CSBWin had quite obscene stats in the end. You can see that here:

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=24384

[beowuuf]

Yeah, even training once my fighter levels and ninja levels never got to Mon.

I must admit, I never have the dexterity to doge either side with a two party - I always concentrate on one side only and twist out of the way of that. Especially hard with RTC where the spells are faster, so you see the wionged eye or whatever shoot and then it smacks into you.