PowerTowers

Gnord · Post by **Gnord** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:20 am

Hello, I realize this is pretty random and out of the blue, but this page:

http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/261

claims "Powertowers" are not able to be acquired in Dungeon Master.
I played the SNES version of this game pretty extensively and recall for absolute certain that this legwear is in the game, and can be acquired without cheating.

I also know there is a wall that can be opened up at Level 1:02,31 in the SNES version which is not openable in the version from this website.

I have the SNES cartridge and if absolutely neccessary I may take the time to prove these two things. I'd perfer not to though. I'm playing the PC version because I don't want to dig out all of my SNES gear and play on that.

(This is my first post here on this forum, hopefully not my last.

Hello guys!)

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:55 am

It is the only version of the game that you can, and I think that the Encyclopaedia is referenign to these original versions

It does need a clarification though

And welcome to the forums!

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:43 am

Yep, you can get the specials (Dexhelm, powertowers) in SNES DM but not the original Amiga/PC/ST versions

Post by **Lunever** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:48 pm

Out of curiosity, where are they to be found in the SNES version?

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:10 pm

I have some alternate maps I drew for the SNES versions -- they were meant for codex. I'll see if I can find them.

Post by **ChristopheF** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:04 pm

I plan to add detailed maps from every single version of the DM dungeon to the Encyclopaedia web site. This will be done using a newer version of sck (http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/884) that is able to read dungeon files. You'll like this!
We will be able to find all differences in the various versions of the dungeon.

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:46 pm

Found them, here they are. Sorry, but these don't have item positions on -- I'll find my notes and add them at some point.

Post by **ChristopheF** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:45 pm

The SNES maps are also stored in the original ROM of the game, you can see them during the animation at the end of the game.
These maps, extracted with sck, are available here: http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/934

Post by **Gambit37** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:59 pm

Yeah, I noticed some differences between what I mapped and what they display, which seems a bit strange. ???

For example, on my dragon level map, there is a door in front of the stairs leading to Chaos. Not so on those maps.

Gnord · Post by **Gnord** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:02 pm

HMMMMMMMMMMM, wow. I'm awed in the presence of masters, heh.

I was surfing around the website a little more and I found out that Dungeon Master for the SNES9x emulator actually works! I've used zsnes for as long as I can remember, and they never emulated it. I've only spent a few hours on the pc clone version, so I think I'll switch to that one. It's a little more familiar.

I've never beaten the game before on my own (my mom is the one who beat it all before) so this should be fun.

Thanks for the maps!

[Edit]
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/260 describes all the weapons. On the actions column, it lists the damage that each attack does. Then on the next column, it just lists damage. How does that work? Which damage number is used? Are they both used, like multiplied together or something else?

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:03 pm

Hi everyone.

In the SNES version, Powertowers are somewhere on northern part of level 5.

And Dexhelm is on level 8 (the large hall of fireballs), in the not-so-hidden room at northeast end, the giggler hell. Yeah, I clearly remember that... found a switch and pressed the swich, and step forward, then the comical and frisky music kicks in, and in sight there are some skeletons and lots and lots of gigglers! And, no, the switch wouldn't work anymore.
In the SNES version the game was slower and gigglers were thus easier to handle, but the situation was so impressive neverthless, and the music there was definetely one of the greatest in the game too.

Post by **Ameena** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:08 pm

Original DM had music in that version? Weird...I can't imagine original DM with music...I wonder if it'd spoil the atmosphere...

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:12 pm

That really depends on the music Ameena. i think the music I added to my dungeon actually makes the atmosphere much better. Can't really comment on the SNES version since I never played it.

Post by **Ameena** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:19 pm

Yeah that's what I meant - some music is very freaky and adds to the atmosphere (there's subtle music in the third Thief game and it's very creepy and atmospheric when you notice it), but sometimes it's kind of intrusive and gets in the way, or can drown out the sound effects to some extent. I'd just never imagined DM with music so I'd probably notice it and think "omg music in DM, wtf" lol.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:26 pm

In SNES version, stepping onto certain points of the dungeon starts the music. However, the dungeon (the game) is basically very silent, except for occasional sound of waterdrops. The number of those "music swiches", if I remember it right, is fewer than the number of levels.

And I think that the developers made the music quite right!

Gnord · Post by **Gnord** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:39 pm

I'll repost my question, a bunch of people posted when I was looking at other pages:

http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/260
describes all the weapons. On the actions column, it lists the damage that each attack does. Then on the next column, it just lists damage. How does that work? Which damage number is used? Are they both used, like multiplied together or something else?

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:17 pm

Just had a quick go at the SNES version of DM and noticed several smaller or bigger differences in the level layout. The music that was played so far seemd alright, but a bit strange nevertheless. Still, I doubt I will ever bring myself to finish that version, the mouse is sorely missed.

Gnord, that's actually a very good question! I can't answer it unfortunately, but I am sure Gambit, Beo, Christophe or somebody else can.

Post by **ChristopheF** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:35 pm

Gambit, you're right, the door is present in the dungeon (I can see it in the extracted dungeon.dat from the SNES version), but not present on the images included in the ROM. Maybe they made some changes to the dungeon after making the images, or made some mistakes while creating the images from the dungeon...

Gnord, I don't know what is the algorithm used by the game engine to compute the actual damage that you do when you attack a creature with a certain action from a certain weapon.
This can be found in the CSBwin source code.
The data presented in the table just shows that there is a damage factor associated to each attack, as well as a damage factor associated to each weapon. This means that the same attack used on two different weapons will not produce the same damage in the end.
You can use the values to compare the efficiency of each weapon.
And of course, there is some random values used in the algorithm. And probably also the champion' stats and skills.

Post by **Gambit37** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:39 pm

In my opinion the music on the SNES version of DM is wholly inappropriate and really spoilt it for me. I appreciate that it was limited by the capabilities of the SPC chip (?) but still -- hihats and disco beats?

The full studio composed versions on the Super CD are much better, but still don't really fit the game.

Post by **Sophia** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:21 pm

Gambit37 wrote:In my opinion the music on the SNES version of DM is wholly inappropriate and really spoilt it for me. I appreciate that it was limited by the capabilities of the SPC chip (?) but still -- hihats and disco beats?

Hehe, no, I wouldn't blame the SPC chip-- they just made weird choices when composing the music.

I always found the SNES DM music a little strange, too, not necessarily wholly inappropriate, but it had a somewhat limited choice of instrumentation, and kind of an odd sound to it. Quite a few of the SNES's other RPGs had better music to me, and something like Arcana (another SNES dungeon crawler) had better choices for music overall, at least to me.

Gnord · Post by **Gnord** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:18 pm

The winner of SNES music of awesomeness award goes to Chrono Trigger.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:19 pm

I'd like to disagree there Gnord, as I think no game ever surpasses the soundtrack of Final Fantasy 6. Chrono Trigger is a close second, though (and more appropriate for my dungeon, as two tracks of it have already found their way in).

Gnord · Post by **Gnord** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:10 pm

Those are my top two as well, but the other way around.

I know how to notch my ninja, priest, and wizard skill quickly, but there doesn't seem to be any good way of notching my fighter skill quickly, at least as far as I've tried. Any suggestions?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:31 pm

If it's like normal DM take damage in combat, and just hack away with the a combination of the fasted attack options (non-ninja) and some good powerful weapon options

Tom Hatfield · Post by **Tom Hatfield** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:37 am

DM has worked on ZSNES for quite a while. You must have been using a really old version. I think the big thing about the music with me isn't so much that it fit the game — I never really thought it did — but that it was so enjoyable, and it was a far cry better than silence in my opinion. Had it played all the time, it certainly would have been annoying, but the song tiles to me felt like milestones. Every time a new song played, I knew I'd accomplished something. :)

As for mouse support, that's the very reason I can't handle DM-SNES anymore. If someone wanted to port the graphics to a modern engine — heh, "modern" sounds kind of ironic — I'd totally give it another shot. Unfortunately, I know jack-all about modding any existing engine, so someone will either have to point me to some tuts or do it him-/herself. The graphics were really the strong point of DM-SNES.

Thief Deadly Shadows is among my favorite games for both atmosphere and originality. I absolutely LOVE the music and would consider using some of it for a dungeon. My personal favorite is Moria Manor (both tracks; I can play them back-to-back for hours), though pretty much all the music rocks up and down.

Post by **Ameena** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:10 pm

The "Thief< Deadly Shadows" music, I never really notice while playing the game...except a scary little bit that plays when you're in the Lower Libraries (and at another point...Gamall's Lair I think...). But that's good, I suppose, since it's not getting in the way. Omg that game freaks me out sometimes, lol. The Shalebridge Cradle...*shudder*

Gnord · Post by **Gnord** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:51 am

Since this is already the "G'nord is a newb!" thread, I would like to ask a few questions after a few statements:

Firstly, I am just a few fluxcages and a fuse away from beating DM for the first time (WOO, go me!)
Secondly, I have collected everything I COULD collect and put it in the specified room for the CSB challenge.
YES, I did use the maps but I watched my mom beat it years ago, so I knew most of what was gonna happen anyway.

Now the questions:
Number 1: On floor 10, there's 4 copper coins in the other two branches of the 3-way choice you have, the one with the Cross Key. Now, I cleaned out 1 branch which I had to when I went through there (the east branch specifically). Now, In the southeast corner, I got another cross key, but this is only 1 more key. I need 2 more cross keys to complete that floor and get all 4 of the remaining coins.
Number 2: I assume that last copper coin on floor 13 is impossible to get? Also, I HAVE the firestaff in the specified room on floor 5, but it still lists the firestaff as being on floor 13. What gives?
Number 3: Floor 6, the 4 rooms requiring the Tourquoise key. I can't open all 4 with just 1 key. How am I supposed to get ALL of it? It seems like I can only get 1 room worth.
Number 4: I have 2 Corbamites. Not four. The maps only list two ANYWHERE. *whimper*
Lastly, Number 5: Which pit is the FulYa pit?

Thanks in advance.

[edit]
As for ZSNES, omg, it works! When did that happen!? LOL. I knew it didn't work a long time ago when I last tried, and I guess I just assumed it still didn't work. But of course I didn't try it again every time a new version came out. Owell. Thanks for the info tho. Anybody know where I could get some MIDI's of the SNES music?

Post by **Gambit37** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:32 am

I made MP3s of the SNES music which you can find on Christophe's site along with an archive containing the SPC files:
http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/637

Gnord · Post by **Gnord** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:59 am

AUGH! CSB = Chaos Strikes back! Which means CSB challenge is probably meaningless when it comes to the original DM, hey?

BAH! My bad, sorry. I wasn't paying enough attention to the different games/versions/sequels.

Trantor · Post by **Trantor** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:50 am

Hi Gnord, nice to see you've come this far! I'm not sure what you mean by the "CSB challenge", though. Anyway, to your questions:

1) You can't clear all three paths, only two of them. You should get enough Copper Coins in the two paths you take to open all slots at the end of the level, but for the third path, you would have to start another game.

2) I am not quite sure which Copper Coin you mean. On level 13, there are a number of different coins used to open the door with the VI altar. There might be one that is unaccessible.

3) Yes, you are right, you can only get one item. With OH EW RA, you can see what lies in each room and then make a decision - or, of course, just save the game, try everything out and take what you like best.

4) and 5) Both of these questions belong to Chaos Strikes Back, as you have probably already noticed.

Hope this helps.