Suule - I have fixed the localisation issue you had. I will do some more testing tomorrow and post up the new exe. Sorry to mess you around.
Night all,
Dave.
New DirectX9 DM clone - entombed
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Sophia
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Actually, to tell the truth, I'd never run this program before!Moonhawk wrote:edit --> Sorry just realised i`m probably trying to teach this poster how to suck eggs. I`m new here - dont kill me
Handy.
I'd always gone nosing around in device manager for system information, and this one seems to give more information.
Anyway, my card can't run this game.
This must be how people who had 512K Amigas felt, back in the day.
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Tom Hatfield
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Okay. It runs consistently above 60 fps. One serious complaint: enumerate the anti-aliasing modes. I was going to test it at the highest possible detail when device creation failed. I turned off anti-aliasing and it worked fine. I don't know if you enumerated the anisotropic filter modes because my card supports up to 16x, which is the highest you can find, so it ran regardless.
I don't like the character screens or how they're accessed. You should implement the right-click to open/close the leader's inventory, because I know every single one of us instinctively tried that and was annoyed when it didn't work. Also, pictures of what each inventory slot represents is an absolute must. Only DM veterans will recognize the default layout, and even then it's unintuitive without icons. (Most of us knew where to put equipment because our brains unconsciously registered the icons.)
Looks pretty good. I have the same complaint Beo had about the repetitive wall texture, and this engine seriously needs shadows to look good! I had fun chucking barrels into pits. Smooth scrolling is a must in my opinion, as well as configurable controls — there's a reason the keyboard has a left side, and a reason we put our hands there by default, and clone makers tend to ignore this — but aside from aesthetics, all you need now is a solid dungeon.
I don't like the character screens or how they're accessed. You should implement the right-click to open/close the leader's inventory, because I know every single one of us instinctively tried that and was annoyed when it didn't work. Also, pictures of what each inventory slot represents is an absolute must. Only DM veterans will recognize the default layout, and even then it's unintuitive without icons. (Most of us knew where to put equipment because our brains unconsciously registered the icons.)
Looks pretty good. I have the same complaint Beo had about the repetitive wall texture, and this engine seriously needs shadows to look good! I had fun chucking barrels into pits. Smooth scrolling is a must in my opinion, as well as configurable controls — there's a reason the keyboard has a left side, and a reason we put our hands there by default, and clone makers tend to ignore this — but aside from aesthetics, all you need now is a solid dungeon.
hey Sophia - dont dis the 512k amiga - thats where it all started
I disagree with some of Toms comments. Smooth scrolling would be a mistake IMO.
Tom - think of this as a showcase for what will is possible - rather than what the actual final game will look like.
DSE - its pretty awesome for one guy woring on his own. What programs are you using?
I disagree with some of Toms comments. Smooth scrolling would be a mistake IMO.
Tom - think of this as a showcase for what will is possible - rather than what the actual final game will look like.
DSE - its pretty awesome for one guy woring on his own. What programs are you using?
Things I'd like to suggest:
- Attack speed of the monsters
Well currently the ettins are so fast in attacking I have trouble counter-attacking.
- Controls
Tom is right, I still have trouble opening the inventory... there is no strafing implemented (yet I hope) so I had real trouble dancing around with ettins.
- Wall textures
It's been discussed already... mirroing the wall texture or using a second wall textury every 2nd step would work good.
Unrelated
I've found the light switch... did I win?
Sophia:
Actually... up to the time Settlers were released, 512kb was quite enough. It was Settlers that first went "More RAM or you won't be able to play it as intended..." luckly I had 2 MB Chip and I could support most of the campaign maps.
EDIT:
I forgot: Hired Guns also used 2MB RAM for enchanced sound effects and there was a special version of Heimidall 2 that used additional RAM
- Attack speed of the monsters
Well currently the ettins are so fast in attacking I have trouble counter-attacking.
- Controls
Tom is right, I still have trouble opening the inventory... there is no strafing implemented (yet I hope) so I had real trouble dancing around with ettins.
- Wall textures
It's been discussed already... mirroing the wall texture or using a second wall textury every 2nd step would work good.
Unrelated
I've found the light switch... did I win?
Sophia:
Actually... up to the time Settlers were released, 512kb was quite enough. It was Settlers that first went "More RAM or you won't be able to play it as intended..." luckly I had 2 MB Chip and I could support most of the campaign maps.
EDIT:
I forgot: Hired Guns also used 2MB RAM for enchanced sound effects and there was a special version of Heimidall 2 that used additional RAM
Sorry to hear that shadows wont be incorporated - however with the lighting system you have in the game - i`m sure they would be very costly in performance terms. The game is very atmospheric without them so I think their addition would be a subtle but not critical enhancement.DSE wrote:
Well a lot of people think it looks kinda better than "pretty good". In fact the majority of games I play, that I pay for, look about the same or worse. If you have a full set of dungeon wall textures with dot3 maps, please email them to me and I will gladly incorporate them into the game, no problems (also attach any dungeon models you have please, as these arent usually free). The smooth scrolling will be a selection you can make in the final game. Shadows will not be included sorry. I dont think they will add anything other than increase the spec required to play the game. The keyboard will be user definable as well.
I have some experience 3d modelling and texturing - I may be able to help out with objects and textures.
What format do you need objects in (format, polycount, texture pixel size)?
What format do you need textures in (pixel size, format etc). Also - how do you use textures i.e. how many channels do you need (colour, normal map, specular?)
What programs are you using for texture and object creation?
edit --> Just found these cool (and more to the point - free) seamless texture creators (Genetica and Wood workshop)
http://www.spiralgraphics.biz/products.htm
Moonhawk - i am working today so I wont be able to respond properly until tomorrow night ... but I use microsoft .net 1.1, directx 9c, 3d max 8, photoshop cs. I can take any format for objects as I have a very good converter, what did you have in mind ? Polycount depends on what we are modelling, for example, a creature has two model detail levels -
low - 2500 polys
high - 5500 polys
I would expect helmets and armour to be around 500-1500 polys each.
Textures (for dungeon walls) need to be 512x512 and 32bit color. I am using normal maps BUT the main texture you see in the demo has height-map information as well. I didnt create this texture and I dont know how to make nice new ones :O(
I will take a look at the links you posted when I get home. Keep up the good work mate.
low - 2500 polys
high - 5500 polys
I would expect helmets and armour to be around 500-1500 polys each.
Textures (for dungeon walls) need to be 512x512 and 32bit color. I am using normal maps BUT the main texture you see in the demo has height-map information as well. I didnt create this texture and I dont know how to make nice new ones :O(
I will take a look at the links you posted when I get home. Keep up the good work mate.
Ok - that gives me something to go on.
The links I posted are pretty good texture creators. They also allow you to export height maps and colour maps separately. Unfortunately they dont allow you to create normal maps (only the pro version of the software has this - and its $399). However I believe it is possible to create normal maps in both 3DS max and Blender by using the hight map to displace the geometry of a plane then generate a normal map from this displaced geometry. I`m having a play with blender now to see if I can pull it off.
http://feeblemind.tuxfamily.org/dotclea ... ormal-maps
The links I posted are pretty good texture creators. They also allow you to export height maps and colour maps separately. Unfortunately they dont allow you to create normal maps (only the pro version of the software has this - and its $399). However I believe it is possible to create normal maps in both 3DS max and Blender by using the hight map to displace the geometry of a plane then generate a normal map from this displaced geometry. I`m having a play with blender now to see if I can pull it off.
http://feeblemind.tuxfamily.org/dotclea ... ormal-maps
Found an easier way - photoshop plugin that converst a greyscale height map into a normal map.
http://quest3d.nl/wiki/index.php?title=Portal:Exporting
http://quest3d.nl/wiki/index.php?title=Portal:Exporting
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Sophia
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Hey DSE, having just released my own clone and endured my own volley of criticisms, I just have to say, don't let any seeming negativity get you down. I think that nobody here, at least among the regulars, has any actual negativity about the various ongoing projects-- what would be the point of that? Maybe they're just blowing hot air, or maybe there's some useful suggestions to be found, but there's no point in getting upset and defensive over something that's supposed to be fun. You're never going to please everyone.
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Tom Hatfield
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I didn't catch your previous reply, but I certainly didn't mean to sound negative. Game design is more than a hobby for me, so I like to see it done right, though the term "right" is about as relative as it gets. The fact that you've accomplished what the rest of us have been talking about for years is quite a feat. Everything I say is my opinion and should be taken as such with salt.
I have DarkSim and can use it to generate all the textures you want. Do you use the diffuse Alpha channel for transparency or specularity? I'll try to produce two seamless textures so you can stagger them if you choose.
I disagree with Moonhawk in the shadows department. I think real-time shadows would enhance the visuals to a degree you can't even imagine. I've marveled at games that incorporate real-time shadows in ways that have not previously been done. It's old hat now, of course; people with shader-compliant cards are spoiled and expect to see all the latest/greatest effects in every modern game, so we tend not to think about shadows when they're present, and we notice immediately when they're not. That was my case.
Anyway, at the very least I think you should leave that on the bottom of your to-do list. If you don't/can't add them, so be it, but it would make a great addition for the final release.
I just tried it again with 4x anti-aliasing and didn't have any trouble, though I have some more suggestions for adjustments. Mostly it deals with food/thirst. I'll wait for the next release.
I have DarkSim and can use it to generate all the textures you want. Do you use the diffuse Alpha channel for transparency or specularity? I'll try to produce two seamless textures so you can stagger them if you choose.
I disagree with Moonhawk in the shadows department. I think real-time shadows would enhance the visuals to a degree you can't even imagine. I've marveled at games that incorporate real-time shadows in ways that have not previously been done. It's old hat now, of course; people with shader-compliant cards are spoiled and expect to see all the latest/greatest effects in every modern game, so we tend not to think about shadows when they're present, and we notice immediately when they're not. That was my case.
Anyway, at the very least I think you should leave that on the bottom of your to-do list. If you don't/can't add them, so be it, but it would make a great addition for the final release.
I just tried it again with 4x anti-aliasing and didn't have any trouble, though I have some more suggestions for adjustments. Mostly it deals with food/thirst. I'll wait for the next release.
Last edited by Tom Hatfield on Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I use two textures for the walls. one is just a jpg which is for colour information. The other is a tga which has a normal map in the RGB channels and the alpha is used to store height information. The height is defined as white for no height, and black for max height (grayscale for the inbetweenies). I have been reliably informed that creating quality textures for relief/parallax occulsion mapping is difficult. I look forward to seeing your efforts.
Thanks.
PS If you want to see a quality texture (the wall texture from the game), I can send you the files - PM me with your email address if you want them.
Also, I can alter the game engine to look in a separate folder for user defined wall textures if you like ... for testing.
Thanks.
PS If you want to see a quality texture (the wall texture from the game), I can send you the files - PM me with your email address if you want them.
Also, I can alter the game engine to look in a separate folder for user defined wall textures if you like ... for testing.
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Gambit37
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DSE, please don't edit previous posts wholesale like this. You had valid points to make about Toms criticisms and if people later comment on something you said, readers can't refer back to the original comment which makes the conversation nonsensical.
If you changed your mind about what you wanted to say, a follow up post would be better. Editing posts to remove stuff you aren't happy about amount to "re-writing history" and I abhor this aspect of forums. In real life, you would need to speak to the person to clear up any misunderstandings, I don't see why forums should be any different.
If you changed your mind about what you wanted to say, a follow up post would be better. Editing posts to remove stuff you aren't happy about amount to "re-writing history" and I abhor this aspect of forums. In real life, you would need to speak to the person to clear up any misunderstandings, I don't see why forums should be any different.
My original post was something like this (shortened and less angry)-
Okay. It runs consistently above 60 fps. One serious complaint: enumerate the anti-aliasing modes. I was going to test it at the highest possible detail when device creation failed. I turned off anti-aliasing and it worked fine. I don't know if you enumerated the anisotropic filter modes because my card supports up to 16x, which is the highest you can find, so it ran regardless.
Just choose the settings that your card supports. Its only an alpha at the moment ... the game doesnt crash if you over specify so just play with it until you get it right. Your card should do x6 anti-alias and x16 anistropic.
I don't like the character screens or how they're accessed. You should implement the right-click to open/close the leader's inventory, because I know every single one of us instinctively tried that and was annoyed when it didn't work. Also, pictures of what each inventory slot represents is an absolute must. Only DM veterans will recognize the default layout, and even then it's unintuitive without icons. (Most of us knew where to put equipment because our brains unconsciously registered the icons.)
Ok, will do. Just a note on the slots, do you really honestly think this is how I wanted the finished character screen to look with no indication of what the character sheet slots were ? Of course I want the hands, feet, torso, etc in the final engine ... I cant draw for fook and because no one offered the graphics they arent in the game.
Looks pretty good. I have the same complaint Beo had about the repetitive wall texture, and this engine seriously needs shadows to look good! I had fun chucking barrels into pits. Smooth scrolling is a must in my opinion, as well as configurable controls — there's a reason the keyboard has a left side, and a reason we put our hands there by default, and clone makers tend to ignore this — but aside from aesthetics, all you need now is a solid dungeon.
Smooth scrolling will be in the final game (user selectable). Shadows wont be in the final game, because I dont see what they will add and they will increase the spec for the game. User defined controls will be in the final product.
Thanks.
Okay. It runs consistently above 60 fps. One serious complaint: enumerate the anti-aliasing modes. I was going to test it at the highest possible detail when device creation failed. I turned off anti-aliasing and it worked fine. I don't know if you enumerated the anisotropic filter modes because my card supports up to 16x, which is the highest you can find, so it ran regardless.
Just choose the settings that your card supports. Its only an alpha at the moment ... the game doesnt crash if you over specify so just play with it until you get it right. Your card should do x6 anti-alias and x16 anistropic.
I don't like the character screens or how they're accessed. You should implement the right-click to open/close the leader's inventory, because I know every single one of us instinctively tried that and was annoyed when it didn't work. Also, pictures of what each inventory slot represents is an absolute must. Only DM veterans will recognize the default layout, and even then it's unintuitive without icons. (Most of us knew where to put equipment because our brains unconsciously registered the icons.)
Ok, will do. Just a note on the slots, do you really honestly think this is how I wanted the finished character screen to look with no indication of what the character sheet slots were ? Of course I want the hands, feet, torso, etc in the final engine ... I cant draw for fook and because no one offered the graphics they arent in the game.
Looks pretty good. I have the same complaint Beo had about the repetitive wall texture, and this engine seriously needs shadows to look good! I had fun chucking barrels into pits. Smooth scrolling is a must in my opinion, as well as configurable controls — there's a reason the keyboard has a left side, and a reason we put our hands there by default, and clone makers tend to ignore this — but aside from aesthetics, all you need now is a solid dungeon.
Smooth scrolling will be in the final game (user selectable). Shadows wont be in the final game, because I dont see what they will add and they will increase the spec for the game. User defined controls will be in the final product.
Thanks.
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Gambit37
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Cool, thanks. If it's any consolation, I do sympathise with your original reaction to some degree: When people write criticisms, it's often written in a way that can be perceived as harsh and/or negative, even if the writer didn't intend it that way. I know from experience when I've written things that sound clear, concise and constructive, the person on the receiving end just hears "Wah wah wah wah!"DSE wrote:Ok, erm, reading it back it doesnt make much sense, I am new to this and I agree that what I did was wrong.
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linflas
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wow ! finally released ! congrats DSE !
it works above 50 fps on my home pc and around 20/30 fps on a Quadro FX1300 at my work office. a few more remarks to what have been said above :
- great loading screen, title logo : i like those small details, looks pro !
- i got a sound bug after killing the two-headed thing. while walking i was hearing hurting sounds constantly and finally a message saying "no more slots for sound" or something like that.
when i see how beautiful this clone is, i wonder why i should continue working in 2D
it works above 50 fps on my home pc and around 20/30 fps on a Quadro FX1300 at my work office. a few more remarks to what have been said above :
- great loading screen, title logo : i like those small details, looks pro !
- i got a sound bug after killing the two-headed thing. while walking i was hearing hurting sounds constantly and finally a message saying "no more slots for sound" or something like that.
when i see how beautiful this clone is, i wonder why i should continue working in 2D
Yep, the sound is an issue ... my brother had the same issue. If you have no stamina then everytime you do anything you will be damaged. I am looking into how to make this work better. There are drinking fountains and you can cook the meat to feast and then sleep to make it go away.
I have limited the sound slots to 16 which it would appear isnt enough, I will make it infinity and let the hardware deal with it.
Linflas - thanks for your feedback, if you want you can help out with my character screen ;O) I really need the person for the slots around the body. Any chance ? You know you want to ;O)
Thanks,
Dave.
I have limited the sound slots to 16 which it would appear isnt enough, I will make it infinity and let the hardware deal with it.
Linflas - thanks for your feedback, if you want you can help out with my character screen ;O) I really need the person for the slots around the body. Any chance ? You know you want to ;O)
Thanks,
Dave.
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linflas
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hmmm.. maybe you'd like the slots i use in FoD ?
i made some modifications to your interface. here's a screenshot and a few more things to say :
- wide screen for the rendered scene is perfect but the layout could be different if one day wide resolutions are available (i.e. 1360x768 for example). so, portraits could be on left and right borders, etc.
- a transparent background for the slots is nice but Gandalf has nothing to do with the game
- i like the icons at the bottom : sleep/compass/spellbook (of course) and fists icons are amazing ! this is not DMish but i like the idea that every party member can attack.
- save icon is unnecessary because i'm sure that there will be a classic ESC/Pause menu with the load/save/options/quit buttons
- *want* a "HAND" to pick objects !
- portraits (including thumbs at the bottom) should have a border
i adapted my inventory bitmaps to your grey interface but honestly, i would prefer something with colors, but that is only my personal taste.
i made some modifications to your interface. here's a screenshot and a few more things to say :
- wide screen for the rendered scene is perfect but the layout could be different if one day wide resolutions are available (i.e. 1360x768 for example). so, portraits could be on left and right borders, etc.
- a transparent background for the slots is nice but Gandalf has nothing to do with the game
- i like the icons at the bottom : sleep/compass/spellbook (of course
) and fists icons are amazing ! this is not DMish but i like the idea that every party member can attack.- save icon is unnecessary because i'm sure that there will be a classic ESC/Pause menu with the load/save/options/quit buttons
- *want* a "HAND" to pick objects !
- portraits (including thumbs at the bottom) should have a border
i adapted my inventory bitmaps to your grey interface but honestly, i would prefer something with colors, but that is only my personal taste.
I really like this ... there is only one slight problem. the character on the far right wouldnt have enough room to display (horizontal screen space) the character sheet (if I line it up with his portrait).
What you have done to the middle panel (body slots) is fooking awesome ... I love it 
Can I please have this, please, please !!
If you think you can come up with something more colourful please do. It took me ages to create the one that is in the game, if (and I know you can do better) you can supply a better one, please do. Gandlaf was my attempt to get some colour into it
. Just a quick note, I use tga's with an alpha channel and I use this to do a drop shadow, just in case.
Also, please remember that if you place a barrel (or any container) in the action hand you get extra slots shown, how would you build this into your design. Thanks for your time and effort ...
What you have done to the middle panel (body slots) is fooking awesome ... I love it
Can I please have this, please, please !!If you think you can come up with something more colourful please do. It took me ages to create the one that is in the game, if (and I know you can do better) you can supply a better one, please do. Gandlaf was my attempt to get some colour into it
. Just a quick note, I use tga's with an alpha channel and I use this to do a drop shadow, just in case.Also, please remember that if you place a barrel (or any container) in the action hand you get extra slots shown, how would you build this into your design. Thanks for your time and effort ...