Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Custom dungeons for CSBWin. Includes all Confux 2 and 3 discussions.

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beowuuf
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Post by beowuuf »

T0Mi wrote:Leif only has 266 stamina, while Halk has 748! Health only differs about 100. Levels are almost equal.
I think stamina is harder to gain overall in DM. I think conflux also had it's stat gain tweaked at one point.
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Post by Black Eagle »

lol thanks beowuuf i figured it out. wouldnt really call it a box, or full of something precious. luckily i had just enough. thats all four puzzles solved, just need some more staffs now!
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Post by beowuuf »

it's a natural box! and it's precious to the owner :D

Glad you got passed it - onwards!
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Post by Parallax »

The mischievous bag is a very picky spell. It needs a bag in the right hand, the bag should usually be empty (sometimes it works even though the bag has some contents), and the stars have to be properly aligned (read: sometimes it has failed me even with an empty bag in the right hand, only to work some time later with the exact same configuration. Go figure...) Oh, and one last thing:
Spoiler
The LO version of the spell does nothing.
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Post by Black Eagle »

ah ok thanks! i was expecting something to appear inside the bag!
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Post by beowuuf »

The item used to appear on the floor. And LO did used to work...
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Post by T0Mi »

(just wanted to add this:)
In Moria (in an erea where you could drop into a pit with a teleporter leading back to the crypt... very welcome as I was starving at that point) I was -attacked- (and killed) by a invisible Giggler! He was easy to kill first, but quickly respawned, some time being invisible, then visible again and randomly attacking. He didn't make the giggle noice when doing so, but the one the ogres (?) make, so I think this must be intentional?
ooohhhh.... found out!
Don't spoil it if you don't know ablout the invisible giggler, for me it was one of the greatest moments in the game!
Spoiler
Got back to the same place now and killed Smeagol! And of course he had to be invisible, cause he holds the One. :shock: Stupid me thinking of a bug.
greetings
T0Mi
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Post by beowuuf »

ah, of course, should have remembered that bit! yes, it was deliberate :)

Watch out for the special item he drops, it's tricksey
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Post by T0Mi »

...very strange, yes.
Spoiler
it always seems to find its way back on my finger.
Till I can get rid of that dark thing, I will stuff it into an alocove. It scares me too much, I'm afraid of any 'real' damage done to my chars.

There are custom dungeons and...
there is Conflux.

greetings
T0Mi
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Post by Black Eagle »

me again! been unlocking more and more but still feel like im miles away! ive read the first 10 or so pages of this thread and most of the stuff is like....what??? Xanathar?, Tower of Loops? wtf? aaaaanyway some more questions:

1) what does the find treasure spell actually DO? locate one special treasure per level? when i cast it on the guild level it directs me south east to a wall. when i cast it on the sewer level it says i need a component. other times it just turns me around?!?!?
2) ive looked EVERYWHERE in the mines and still cant find a way to get to the area that asks for 10 daggers!
3) found myself in the amber crypt and another vecna appeared - i guess she's an illusion here... kicked the ettin giant's ass tho
4) altar of love - whats this all about??? me/her/yes??????
5) how do i get back to moria? :oops:
6) room of answers - still cant open this door. someone said it was linked to the fountain of ignorance but i cant see how. tried putting coin in... nope...
7) there's a lot of talk in this thread about guild endings. what are they (in general)? isnt unlocking the guild bosses the end?
eight 8) how on earth do you open the doors to the Dwarven Forge? the only lock i can see is the one that's broken - ive put every key i have in there to no avail.
9) also on dwarven mines level - theres a statue in the long coridoor with the stairs down that clicks when you press it. what does this do???
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Post by beowuuf »

1. It used to locate the dwarf treasure only, so was useless anywhere else. I believe it not does try to locate a treasure on each level, so perhaps the behaviour is buggy?
2. Still don't exactly remember that bit, but from the hints - you do realise even if a wall has anything on it, you can still walk through it?
4. The grey lord there will happily marry any who come before him... even if the bride is a little unwilling at the time and needs to be persuaded to step into position!
5. There is only one true way into moria, though the way does intrude in several places. The entrance is
Spoiler
one of the pits on the outer crypt path
6. money does not buy wisdom. If you are ignorant, really only one thing will give you answers. If you found the fountain of (wisdom?) you should already know what this object type is
7. Later on you will find a stairwell - at the bottom it leads to the towers you have heard of in mampang. However, on the way on each previous level are doorways, only openable if you have the correct guild boss. These levels provide a unique final set of levels and ending for that guild boss. For example, halk (from the story doc) obviously is cursed with the dark armour still, and gothmog is perhaps still harbouring thouhgts of subduing the balrogs again
8. You cannot unlock the dwarf forges doors from the outside. You cannot climb up into the dwarf forges from anywhere below. However, you can get access to the forges by another way. A map of the levels might might help here :D
9. Hmm, new feature, no clue! Something I have no doubt :D
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Post by T0Mi »

2. It is just a very few steps from one of the stairs. If you need more than 5-6 steps to reach it, it must be another stair.
Look for a large preasure pad in an 3-side-enclosed square. Take a look at the writing, it schould say something with trader... take a even closer look at the knifes before you give them away. But the Rapier truely is worth it! I'd suggest: furs on food.

7. look on page 26, post#7, zoom asked for a way to repair weapons. The anser to this and your question is one and the same.

9. It opened a door just beside it, but keeps making the clicking noice, even though the door already is opened. (?)

have fun!
T0Mi
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Post by Black Eagle »

aha found it thanks guys!! :)
i now have dozens of steaks!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)
solved the room of answers thanks Beowuuf
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Post by Christopher »

1. Treasure spell will locate a treasure (with the proper component which is mentioned on the scroll that has the spell) for almost every single level in the game including the guild leader ending levels. If the spell turns you around, then you might be casting 'Find North' by mistake.
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Post by Paul Stevens »

I created a page for 'Locate Treasure':

http://www.dianneandpaul.net/DMwiki/ind ... ellOhIrRos

Anyone able to fill in some of the details?

I suppose a lot of the spells can use a
page of their own. We can point to such
pages at:

http://www.dianneandpaul.net/DMwiki/ind ... xSpellList
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Post by Parallax »

I'll fill out what info I have for Locate Treasure. But I'd still recommed people try it on their own first, it is a very, very neat spell.
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Post by T0Mi »

I'd like to know about things I still don't have a clue about:


- Is it possible to charge ven eggs from to _ to MON?
Powerful eggs can make great nutrious food. (like n'eggs in Bloodwhitch :-))


- uncurse items. (yes, a very basic question)
Instead of digging back into this thread (and spoiling other things) or asking "Is it a spell or an alcove? Where is the place I can find out more about it?" I'd like to ask:

When I'm in the right place, will I know it?
(The forge was not toooo obvious for me to be the right place to repair stuff, so...)

I've got Halks armor almost completed (helm is missing) and would like to uncurse parts of it.


- MIPS and the ZO spell (basic too).
I guessed hard for a long time it is a item that sets the ZO spell free. But the little wizards (will never ever be able to get their name right) in the temple use a spell. Can I find out using the trial 'n error method or is it a locked spell? Can you give me a hint where to look for the scroll containing the info?

greetings
T0Mi


As for the wiki:

Probably I'm the wrong person to ask or wonder (both because I'm very new(bie) to the forum and to Conflux):

In this thread everyone tries not to spoil things for other players, letting them have their own "aha!" effects, only giving it away if someone really is stuck.
The wiki is supposed to give away -everything- about the game. (?) Why not keeping it a guide trying hard not to reveal the secrets? Is it just for those Ubergamers who ended the games several times, scoring 170+ points and want to find out the few little secrets they've missed? I do not understand.
example: The maps are something a player should discover using the passwords given in the game, but are supposed to be freely accessable in the wiki.

If I got something wrong, please correct me... maybe I've missed something obvious... I do often these days.
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Post by Paul Stevens »

About the spoilers in the Wiki. Good question.
I see it this way but I may be the only person
who sees it this way: The spoilers are available.
Anyone who enjoys the 'a-ha' of finding things
themselves can easily avoid the wiki. We are
not forcing you to look. It is obviously full of
spoilers. Almost by definition.

Some people are never going to be able to enjoy
ConfluxIII without the spoilers. It is too
difficult. I am one of the people who enjoys
playing more with such guidance. I do not
value the 'a-ha' after long and difficult guessing/
thinking. I enjoy the cleverness of the thing!!!
And it takes me MUCH too long to progress to
the next cleverness without help.

Moreover, even with the maximum documentation,
very, very few people are going to know ConfluxIII
in the same way that we know Dungeon Master
or Chaos Strikes Back. It is an order of magnitude
bigger and more complex.

So...I could make certain pages only available
to those who sign a statement saying they
WANT spoilers. We could discard the wiki
entirely. We can do whatever the consensus
says we should do. It is an experiment and
we can decide how it should progress now that
it is kinda in place and working.
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Post by beowuuf »

T0Mi wrote:- Is it possible to charge ven eggs from to _ to MON?
Not that I am aware of! Then again, conflux mutates all the time and has tons of secrets!
T0Mi wrote:- uncurse items. (yes, a very basic question)
Not a spell.
Spoiler
It is a blessing, you might guess from where if it's a blessing. It doesn't require a person, infact it requires the removal of a powerful person to access. And everything has a price :D
T0Mi wrote:- MIPS and the ZO spell (basic too).
I guessed hard for a long time it is a item that sets the ZO spell free.
The Zo spell has an effect, no unlocking required. It's just not a particularly good effect.

The door open spell is located on the topmost level, above the cellar (not the guild hall itself, but on that level). Find the screamers and fight your way through


As for the wiki, I think it would act the same as the wiki that exists for the webbased 'kingdom of loathing' game. The wiki basically explains every aspect fo the game for those stuck, and it is up to the player how much they spoil stuff
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Post by T0Mi »

@beo

[uncurse]
ahh... good one.
I received a blessing after defeating an army of ogres. :-)
And with that hint I can guess what needs to be done to make it accessible permanent elsewhere.
[...]
ouuuu-ouuu... I've killed a few not so important seeming persons in the council... but hey: they were attacking me using spells. I hope I didn't destroy anything... :shock:

[ZO spell]
I will find my way up. Thank you.



@Paul

I agree with all your wise words above,
and not just because we are different persons.

We have different feelings about things. Plainly and simple.
Conflux deserves a wiki, thats the force I feel behind it.

Many people played Dungeon Master, some of them even mastered Chaos Strikes Back, and there are still alot of people that would really enjoy playing it in a way they may have never dreamed of... so the goal is to make Conflux more playable for more people, I see.

For me the first step would be collecting all the standard questions from this thread and putting them into an "non-spoil" FAQ to browse, but hiding detailed information. The -real- spoilers could be included the way they are here on the forum, or using an extra links. (Should I do the collecting?)

Avoiding spoilers needs high self-restraint, at least for me. It's difficult not to access it accidental or... 'accidental'.
Player imagination is such a huge aspect of the game. You begin feeling the dungeon starts reacting on your appearence alone, what item is carried, the allignment. In players imagination almost anything could have an effect. To know about the mechanisms before they actually happen (for me) destroys so much. (I know you were very much involved in developing the technical aspects of the game, so to some extend you never had a real choice. ;-))

greetings
T0Mi
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Post by Paul Stevens »

TOMi wrote:(Should I do the collecting?)
Heh! We welcome any sort of contribution.
And when one comes with good ideas about
how to organize the information, that makes
us especially happy. :D

How do you suggest we handle the 'accidental'
viewing of explicit spoilers? How do other
people feel about this problem? The Sunday
crossword has the solution on the back page
and I have never had any trouble controlling
myself. I peek on rare occasions. Maybe we
need to hide 'explicit' spoilers on the
'back page' somehow. A special 'warning' on
an intermediate link? A special login for special
pages? Any concerns or ideas?
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Post by beowuuf »

I still say the wiki should be information, that is the point of a wiki, surely? If someone wants to contruct a hint page from the explicit wiki information, then that can be housed on a side bit perhaps.

So perhaps make all the 'index' pages spoiler free, but otherwise you click on the link, you get the details

Altermnatively, each item might have a 'hint' link beside it, where you get a cut down spoiler free set of information about the item or creature or level.
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Post by T0Mi »

I will do this.
(and posting it in the right thread)

It is merely a copy/paste job and won't eat too much time and will prevent this thread to become even bigger, the same questions asked over and over again. (I prefer asking instead of digging back, because I've experienced that it can (wanted or unwanted) spoil things badly, of course then stepping into puddles is likely to happen. ;-))

For not having the same problems in the FAQ I'd suggest to only have the questions visible (+ maybe nonspoiling hints), revealing the plain info when clicking the question you want to find out about or when hoovering the mouse over it.

I'll reactivate my knowledge about html and as it will also help me to bring the geek code into a more handy form, so this will be 2 flies with one smack. (I usually prefer catching them alive and giving them back their freedom. ;-))

Also there are spoiler, and there are spoilers.
A bug (if there exist any real) that crashes a savegame of course needs to be mentioned in all of its details (generally anything that causes players to have unneeded pain / restarting), but spoiling Smeagol would be a sacrileg! (Still a hint would be nice if the little thing can result in real damage and can be cared of or not and if, a clue where to find the place would be nice to have in of course)

In a modern game (let's say Bioshock or Spellforce) I usually want plain answers to riddles I cannot solve, but I feel it is very different in conflux. For me it is the possibility to play DM again, with almost the same fascination I had when first playing DM and I want it to last as long and enjoyable as possible. (yeee... then I probably shouldn't ask for hints at all, right...)

There is also one thing I'd like to mention about wikis in general:
Don't be too angry with people when they do not take part that enthusiastic. I think people feel about it like they do about doing homework for next weeks test in school. No need to be in a hurry anyway. It will grow.

greetings
T0Mi
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Post by Parallax »

The way I see it, the Wiki gives out everything. It is a spoiler. If you come up looking for what item solves riddle X, the Wiki should tell you it's item Y, thank you, good luck, moving on.

Having said that, Filling out the level descritptions got me thinking about a hint tree, to provide help for frequently asked questions. Basically, I envisioned a main hint page that said something like:

Code: Select all

Help! I am stuck in:

[] The Guilds
[] The Cellar
[] The Iron Temple
[...]
[] The Tower of Mampang
[] The Moria
[] Er... I don't really know where I am.
[] I am not stuck, but I need help with...
Each option would lead to another question to try and narrow down people's questions without giving away much about the dungeon. Once the tree has located the problem, it would give a hint, and a link marked "I need a more explicit hint." After however many hints provided in this way, the last option would be: "I am still stuck, just give me the answer."

The idea is a bit like the troubleshooting wizard in windows, except in my mind this would actually work. I reiterate that I do not see this as the structure of the Wiki itself, but as an addition to the Wiki, for those who would want hints and not spoilers. And yes, I realize it would be a lot of work, and some of it redundant with the Wiki, which means two places to update when new versions come out. Oh well, I never said it was perfect.
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Post by Paul Stevens »

I like Parallax' idea. Especially if *HE*
can make it work! :)

Should any of the ***MARVELOUS***
hints from the Hint Oracle be copied over
and used in your hint tree? I vote 'yes'.
That Hint Oracle needs to get as much
exposure as possible. It is a work of art
all by itself.

I would like to say again (and again).....
In my mind this information should all come
from playing the game. Not from decrypting
the data files or otherwise viewing the
source. I view this as a group effort to
understand and document the game. I do
not view this as cheating. I view it as
a research team. I do not believe we will
conquer the game completely in this fashion
but will, rather, continue to refine our
understanding and continue to discover
secrets over many years. Anyone actively
playing the game is very likely to discover
things that nobody else has discovered.
Imagine what CSB would be like if we had not
had DMute or CSBuild. And CSB was simple.
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Post by Parallax »

Paul Stevens wrote:I like Parallax' idea. Especially if *HE*
can make it work! :)
Hahaha... ha... You're serious, aren't you? I'm not even an official contributor to the Wiki but fine, I'll see what I can do. :)
Should any of the ***MARVELOUS***
hints from the Hint Oracle be copied over
and used in your hint tree? I vote 'yes'.
Definitely, they should be, even though the Oracle should be the first source anyone should go to for help...
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Post by Paul Stevens »

Parallax wrote:I'm not even an official contributor to the Wiki
I hereby anoint you "Official Contributor".

There. That problem is solved.
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Post by beowuuf »

Only @800 posts until you reach Archmaster and can lose the title again!

Or later on tonight :D
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Post by Parallax »

Oh Beo, always the joker! :P

(please change "contributer" to "contributor")

EDIT: Hey, wait a minute, no you haven't, Paul!
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Post by T0Mi »

hehe...
ok then, not yet a contributor Parallax:

you do the coding, I'll do the text.

I found myself busily at work yesterday, collecting some of the stuff I know about already. Still I have lots of things that need my attention in RL, it will be a 'worky' week, but I will provide the first lines soon.

then:
let's get back to the initial purpose of this threat, so no new threats pop up asking for hints elsewhere (@Lai: please post here. :-))

I wonder how Beo could hold up that energy, never tired of answering questions from ppl like me. Probably drugs.

...

I found out about uncursing items. (By sheer luck, been on the "wooden way" for a long time)
The price is not too high, but quite hard to spot where to stick it in. ;-)

ehhhh... in a state of pure dullness, I've killed the members of the council (after dropping in from above), no savegame to recover, the ones I have date back about 2 weeks of play. Shame on me.

Please tell me: should I restart? I guess I badly destoyed the 'normal' good ending, did I?

greeting
T0Mi
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