!! Some NEW tricks !!

[Kotrin]

I've just browsed through this website and noticed several misses...

Experience :
* Wizard & Priest gain experience when casting a spell. The target of the spell doesn't change anything. That means you game the same amount of experience if you cast a fireball on a monster rather than in an empty corridor.
* Warriors gain experience by inflicting and receiving damage (even when punching self in a wall).
* Ninja levels are gained through the launch/shooting of items. The ONLY factor is the weight of what you launch/shoot. Just throw the heaviest possible things for easy levels (stone clubs, full chests). As per magic, the actual damage inflicted by a thrown object has no effect, you gain experience when throwing, not when the object hits.
* My advice for experience is that you only need monsters for warrior levels, so keep the monsters alive to bash them in hand to hand :o)

Necklaces :
* Moonstone not only gives +3 mana but also increases mana recovery rate (governed by Wisdom). That's why Chani nearly always end up with a very high wizard level.
* Gem of Ages double torchs' duration, even magic ones. The effect is cumulative if you can get and wear more than one Gem of Ages.

Happy gaming !

Kotrin

[Sundeep Nandra]

Not meaning to sound harsh...but the only thing in that which I didn't know was the effect of the Gem of Ages. I do find, with the wisdom statistic, that whenever I have Boris in my party, his wisdom ends up VERY high (without me sitting around for days getting his levels up). Think it reaches about 78, plus I wear the Jewel Symal to take it up to 93. Very nice :). Does Chani's get higher than that? I've played with her but found that, overall, Wuuf and Boris gain more wisdom than she does during the course of the game (WITHOUT loading back if I don't get increases in the statistics I want at a level gain).

[Demoniac]

Loading back? So different things increase if you try reaching a level again? Can you also gain more life if you try again, or is that amount fixed?

[Sundeep Nandra]

The health, stamina and mana don't fluctuate much. If, for example, you had 150 health and got a level taking it to 174, chances are the range (IF 174 is in the middle) would be from 172 to 175. Of course, 174 could be the highest you could possibly get...and you wouldn't know until you loaded back, got the level and repeated the procedure 50 times, unable to get 174 ever again.

It seems the same for stamina and mana too (to prevent people loading back numerous times until they get a certain level of increase in each statistic). It's just more important that you get increases in the other attributes but that also has a range.

For example, it seems (from what I've noticed without particularly looking out for it over the years) that if one time you get a priest or wizard level but don't gain any wisdom, but you decide to load back, you either won't get any wisdom any of the times you load back, or you'll only get an increase of 1 on a rare occasion. Of course, I could be slightly wrong on this part of it although it seems to make good sense. Basically...it's not really worth loading back...unless you want every little point you can get.

[Demoniac]

I never even tried loading back. I'd love to get my hands on some of the code, though. Not their graphics engine and stuff, of course, but where they calculate damage, damage reduction (armor), stats increase and so on. I haven't found a way to check the different types of armor, for example. I mean, I could try them all and stand in front of a dumb creature, writing down how much it hurts me each time and then come up with some kind of value, but that'd take too long.

[Paul Stevens]

I have a feeling that the code for Dungeon Master is not too
different from the code for Chaos Strikes Back. My CSB code
is available in the Clones/CSB for Windows area of the
Encyclopaedia. It is not simple. It might at least give you
some feeling for how the designers were thinking when they
wrote this part of the program. Write me if you need help
getting into the proper parts of the code.

Paul Stevens prsteven@facstaff.wisc.edu

[Demoniac]

Thanks. I never noticed that.

[Paul Stevens]

Actually, the Clones page still points to a very old
version. If you go to the CSB for Windows forum you
will find a announcement for version 1.0 and from there
you can get a much better version. The things you
are interested in are probably about the same but it
would be better to have the more recent code.

[Demoniac]

Thanks.

[Heinrich]

Ah, Kotrin, you're our master.

Thanks for all, I know no one who play better than you at such games...

[Kotrin]

I forgot one (not mentioned in this site BTW) : You can also flip coins in order to gain Ninja levels.

[Sundeep Nandra]

Isn't it a long-winded way of getting ninja levels though?

[Thorr]

Actually, it's much easier to just fight weaponless and gain ninja levels. I usually just sit where a group of screamers pop up and punch them to death. Flipping coins and throwing objects takes way too long.

The same theory can be applied to warrior levels. One of the absolute best ways to gain warriors levels is to grab a weapon that Jabs and do like the above. With a jabbing weapon and a room full of screamers, you can raise your first five levels with just one roomful.

Another thing to remember is that everything you do will gain you more experience if there are monsters nearby. This includes spells.

-Thorr the Mighty Thunderer

[jaba]

i have allways known adout just throwing things in to the air or just swinging at nothing but i found its pretty much a waste you dont level up very much and if you stay to loge you run of food unless you are close to a regeration point full of rats or sceremers.

[Kastagaar]

Something I used to do on the atari when I wanted ninja levels was to stand in front of a rock pile, right-click to the inventory screen and spam punch for ages. In early levels, you have to run off to recuperate every now and then, but the rock piles are so slow that you know you're not going to get tracked down.

Kas.

[DjArcas]

A few updates... (from playing with the CSB source code)

You don't get experience for ramming yourself into a wall. Or falling down pits.

As for ninja attacks... you get twice as many XP for punching a monster as for punching the air (tested on worms, 4 for the air, 8 for a worm :)

Throwing food, chests, bombs, clothes, etc, gives you 8 XP, swords give 12, daggers give 16, poison darts 17... it's not based on weight tho.

This is throwing in the window with a hand, tho. Putting a poison dart into your hand and selecting 'throw' gives the 17 XP, plus a 5 XP bonus...

There no difference to doing things close to or away from monsters...

[DjArcas]

As for the Gem of Ages doubling the light time.. are you sure? I can't find anything in the torch or magic light code that might do this... (again, this is CSB, and not Dungeon Master, so it's entirely possible that the code's been removed...)

The Moonstone does indeed increase something during DetermineMastery, tho I'll be buggered if I can figure out what (it increases skill 14, if that's any help :)

[Gambit37]

It's not the Gem of Ages that affects light - that would be the Illumulet. It actually prevents light from dropping to the lowest level, so if you wear it, light will never go lower than level 1 (I think there are six levels of light).

Wearing more than one makes no difference to the light level.

[Zyx]

A very good way is to stand before screamers and warcry at them
(with empty hands):
you'll gain priest levels and warrior levels. Besides, the 4 characters can do that and the monster won't die so you can do it a long time.
Keep your mana to cast magician spells in the meantime, and when you're tired of it, punch the screamers to end it.
This way, you'll gain levels in the 4 professions.

[Kotrin]

Gambit, I agree that Illumulet generates some free light and thus prevent your party to get into complete darkness.

The effect of the Gem of Ages is different. It doubles the duration of your magic torches, I am 100% sure of it. Try to wear some and move around. If you carry two, sometimes your magic torches will still be there even after some sleep.

Personnally, I prefer wearing gem of ages instead of illumulets because the light provided by the latter is just too weak - and if you still have to cast magic torches, what is the point to wear them anyway ? There are not enough illumulets in the dungeon to provide a decent light.

~

On another topic : I have been a bit incomplete over my trick to gain Ninja levels. Only weight matters, but you have to throw items designed to be thrown. Throwing clubs counts, throwing chests doesn't. The best items to train for some Ninja levels are the stone clubs at firestaff level - many of them, very heavy. Bring them to the stairs up to send them endlessly without having to move at all to pick them.

~

On priesthood : the wand effect "calm" is definitely worth a bunch of experience. It's very effective against water elementals at level 8, making them flee for a lot longer than the time it takes to cast "calm" again. On level 10 (where you have three differents routes to choose from) take the center road with water elementals. The two other paths are not interesting because they have their own annoying monsters PLUS water elementals from the central path that can past through doors (anyway, the three routes only differ from the food items you find in each).
The generator step near the exit creates endless amounts of water elementals easily cornered with calm spells. They can be then endlessly calmed for easy priest levels, or dispatched with vorpale blades for wizard levels - or a combination of the two.
This place is useful because you can earn priest and wizard levels without spending any mana.
If you already chose another route at this level it is still possible to create water elementals but a lot more annoying to wait for them to cross closed doors.

Happy gaming

Kotrin

[Kotrin]

Thanks Djarcas for looking into the code and bringing the experience value of throwable items. Just out of curiosity, how much is worth a stone club ? It's what brought me the most Ninja levels outta here.

For warriors and experience, I know that each point of damage received is worth some XP. You can earn fighter levels when receiving a blow. I've already earned a warrior level while fleeing and punching myself in walls I know it can happen (since it's only 1 damage each time it's very unlikely though !). Maybe another part of the code you should get into.

For warrior and experience again, I easily believe that you earn twice as much experience when hitting a monster than when missing - either missed the monster or fighting in an empty corridor. However, I think there is also some experience related to the difficulty of the attack (swing is easy, berserk is hard) and I am quite sure that the amount damage inflicted also counts. A friend of mine was taking stimulants for his warriors (strengh potions) beforehand to inflict more damage in combat and it proved very effective for his warrior levels.

For spells and experience, remember that the experience and levels is earned when the spell is cast, therefore a valid target is pointless. You do not gain additional experience when your fireball lands on a magenta worm rather than a solid wall => spare monsters for close-quarter fighting.

For Gem of Ages, I can only reply one thing... Try by yourself...

Kotrin

[beowuuf]

Gem of ages: it raises a sub-level (all character classes are broken down internally into different parts) of your champion by 1 (so won't appear as a change in priest of wizard levels like pendant feral)
So, you will find you can cast better potions with than without, and also maybe this is what happens with the magical torch...it will be cast at a level 1 higher than you think...so duration, as you say, will be longer

Personally i wear the illuminet as I find by that time I am pumping all spare magic into potions and potion learning...don't have spare mana to throw away on magic torches til the cavern (start having powerful fighters learning wizard spells to help out)

As for the central path on level 11...they cannot energe from the front door (blocker there), and there is only one to start with anyway, you need to be in the cenral path to generate more. I personally do the trolin path cause thety are weak, then use the later cross key for fun to do the elemental path

[DjArcas]

re: ninja levels.

The weight of the object seems to make NO difference. Different classes of object give different XP levels. Run CSBWin++ with XP tracking on, you'll see!

The BEST method for ninja levels that I've found, is using the ninja rope... that can get you 500 XP a use (even with no pit there), and it's doubled for about 2 seconds after one of your partry has been hit with a monster (I'm confused about this part myself)

You do earn twice as much XP for hitting a monster, yes, that seems to be right.

[xaint]

Hi and excuse my english...
everytime when I begins, I start to punch air (in dungeon). Punch, punch, punch... with some patience you can get 3rd ninja level. Punch with another etc. I have 4 characters with 3rd ninja level. And now trying to warcry. Warcry one, and before it be done, warcry with second, first, second... my characters have 3rd level ninja and warrior. I think it's good beginning :-) It takes only some minutes ( but upur mouse hand and fingers hurts ;-) ) and you have a bit harder characters, which can really help.

And I want to ask:
I have character and i want to make him fight barehanded all the game.Is it good idea? ( i have solo char).

And I recommend to download Dungeon master JAVA. It is new maps, new graphic, a quite cool :-) ( here i am trying to fight barehanded. Yes, I have hits 5-20 damage, but it is VERY fast, so I am doing much damage... I recommend). And be careful, screamers are a quite hard :-) I was surprised, because 2 hits - and my char was dead:-)
( you can create your own in DMJAva).

Bye and happy killing
Xaint, Czech republic

[Frostwraith]

I've casted a fireball at monsters and not gained a level until exploded and wiped them out

It seems unlikely that the level gain at the time of impact rather than the time of casting was related to a lagging super nintendo, rather than extra experience from taking out the monsters. In all other circumstances, I've had my level gain happen as soon as I've taken the action that gives the exp

[Selie]

Maybe you get experience for the death of a monster in the SNES version, but I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone gaining a level for the death of a monster in the Atari or Amiga versions. I don't think you get any experience for killing a monster with a door, for example. Does anyone have any proof of this? If you can get experience just killing a monster with a door, then maybe I should go back to that method. It's easier, I die a lot less ... I've just been avoiding it because I like experience.

[Ameena]

I'm sure you can get Fighter levels from bashing into walls...I swear I remember doing that once...or perhaps it was from a door closing on my head. Hmm...yeah, might've been.
And regarding Ninja levels...that's one of the skills I find I hardly ever bother with, so halfway through the game I just get a boulder (if I find one) and just keep chucking it. Because it's so heavy it doesn't go anywhere and just drops to the ground at your feet. Click, chuck, click, chuck, click, chuck...ding three or four levels pretty quick, then make the next person leader (ie click on their name so it's their hand you're using on the main screen) and do it again...and again for each person. I got them up to Journeyman or Craftsman or something like that, before the boulder would actually manage to travel one square. But I suppose this technique would be rather slow if you're, like, Expert Ninja already or something .

[BloodFromStone]

The rope is a nice ninja leveling tool, but I usually stick to stabbing with a dagger. It's still really fast and gives more experience than punching, I believe.

[sucinum]

if i could, i would merge: http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=23887

[Gambit37]

I'd like to aswell, but the forum software doesn't have that facility. I think the 'when it's done' version 2.2 will allow that though...