CSBuild Questions

[Ian Clark]

I have been using CSBuild and CSBedit. I have managed to get to grips with things quite easily but there are a few things I am having problems with, see below.

• RA Doors do not have the animated effect

• Torch holders: I've encountered some really odd effects, please can someone talk me through the proper method

• Levers / changing buttons: see above

I have only been playing about with it for a week and I am quite impressed at what can be done. Wait while you meet the end boss in my dungeon...

[Zyx]

Monster generators:
you have to "local edit" the level (the blue = sign in the tool bar on the left) to allow the selected kind of monster. (up to 15 kinds allowed by level)
Don't forget to put a pressure pad or pushbutton sending a set message on the generator.

Levers
First put a pushbutton with the "rotating effect", with the secondary graphic (ie: lever down). This will swap the graphics with the following object each time you click on the wall.
Then put a push button, with the desired effect (usually a toggle message) and the primary graphic (ie: lever up)

Torch holders:
Put a disabled actuator with the secondary graphic (ie: torch holder full)
Put an object holder, triggered by a torch, with the primary graphic (ie: torch holder empty)

If you want to set a torch holder with a torch in it:
Put a disabled actuator with the secondary graphic (ie: torch holder empty)
Put an object holder, triggered by a torch, with the primary graphic (ie: torch holder full)
Put a torch in the wall.

[Ian Clark]

Thanks, I've got that working. I cannot seem to get RA doors to animate though (maybe I have done something with CSBedit rather than build) and how do you make floor pads that will only activate once or until a certain event has happened i.e. in Conflux II, Leif announces he can bash a door but once it has been done and the room has been opened, he stops saying it?

[Zyx]

RA doors: check the "mirrored randomly" option with CSBedit.

pads: there's no systematic solution, but here's a simple example with the door:
1) put an invisible text on the floor before the door.
2) on the same place put a pressure pad, activated by a special item (ie: powertowers for Leif), with the "once" option checked, targetting the same place with a set message.
3) On the door tile, put a pressure pad, activated by party stepping, targetting the text place with a close message.

pad 2 will ensure that Leif triggers the text
pad 3 will quiet the text once the door is opened and entered.

Actually I' prefer using AND/OR gates to create these mechanisms, because there is more control, but its more complciated.

[Gambit37]

Actually, in a lot of places, he carries on saying it even after he's bashed the door which I always found a bit odd.

Zyx used a 'clear' message sent to the floor text -- this stops it being triggered. But in many places, there are floor texts that have 'set' and 'clear' messages on the same actuator that are responsive to specific items -- this is how you get a text that 'speaks' if someone is carrying a certain item.

Anyway, I digress. Ask Zyx.

[Zyx]

Oh, I wasn't aware of it, I'll fix this bug.

[Des]

I learned how to set up most of the actuators by peeking at other people's dungeons.

One thing that is currently vexing my poor old brain is monster-triggered monster generators.

Let's say you have a 4 by 4 room with a door, a monster generator and a pad that works by "Party or Monster". The party enters the room, and steps on the pad creating a vorpal bunny. The party flees in terror and closes the door. Later on they return and the room is filled with bunnies. On opening the door they are forced to run away and bunnies start spilling into the rest of the level....

This may well have been discussed before, but how does the game engine deal with this, and is it dangerous?

[Zyx]

When the room is filled with monsters the pressure pad will stop being triggered (since it's the stepping on or stepping off that trigger the pad) . But if the monsters can leave the room, or if the room is really big, you'll have lots of monsters; probably too much. What's more, the generation will be infinite.

You probably want to limit the generation up to, say, 60 monsters. So the triggering pad should send a close message to a counter targetting the monster generator. The counter starts with the value 60 and will decrease by one each time it receives the close message. As long as it doesn't reach the 0 value, it should activate the generator.

Another solution is to put invisible teleporter retaining the monsters into the room. So the maximum monsters, at any time, will be: number of tiles in the room + one or two in the queue.

Also choose wisely the "disable time" time of the monster generator to manage the speed of spawning.

[beowuuf]

I remember someone wanting a 'keep monster population at a fixed number' generation once. I oculd find no elegant solution in normal DM mechanics, but i am sure with DSAs this is also a possibility? Blocking a generator iif three seperate pads in a room are all generating events?

[Des]

Thanks guys. I think I'll go for the counter solution to limit the numbers. At least then if the heroes get cornered by the "monsterlanche" they do have a chance of fighting their way out. So far in my dungeon, though it is both chaotic and sadistic (and a bit silly in places), there is always a way to escape from any situation.

A wee aside: I was getting a bit concerned that after months of work the end result might be a disappointment - I guess that happens to everyone who has a bash at a custom dungeon. But as I'm finding the design process most gratifying (in a sort of onanistic way) I'm happy to keep wanking (US definition see http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldo ... ion=Search ) away until I reckon it's finished then shoot it out.

[Gambit37]

I have never heard the word 'wank' used in that context before! I can't read your post seriously, even though I now know there is another definition.

[Des]

The FOLDOC definition is rather amusing (for Brits). Nevertheless I feel a bit guilty about being smutty on this forum and I'm doing a runner back to my original problem regarding monster generators...

I can't seem to get a counter actuator. When I select it from the list I get a monster generator. I'm using CSBuild version 1.65.

[beowuuf]

counters are wall items
if you try to place them on the floor, the hex means they are monster generators : )

[Des]

D'oh!

[Paul Stevens]

counters are wall items
if you try to place them on the floor, the hex means they are monster generators

That is one of the things that the original designers did wrong, IMHO. They
had plenty of bits to specify the 'Actuator Type', yet they chose to
reuse the numbers to mean two different things in two different environments.
Never understood it. Sorta ugly.

I will add another 'numeric type' so that Counters would use a
unique, new number when added using the editor. The old number would
still work so that old dungeons would not be broken. Then you could place
a Counter anywhere.

[Adamo]

what if I want to make a sort of a trap, that activates monster generator after each 2 presses of pressure pad? Like this: a party press pad 2 times and a monster is generated. Another 2 presses and a monster is generated. Another 2 presses and the monster is generated... etc. Is that possible to do?

[Paul Stevens]

Is that possible to do?

Yes! A three instruction DSA would do it.

Start in state 0.

Press button. Go to state 1.

Press putton. Send message to generator. Go to state 0.

This sort of thing is what DSAs were initially designed
to accomplish before they got all fancied up for
complicated things.

0S0: 1N
1S0: 0LA MS*

[beowuuf]

It's so beautiful in its simplicity!

[Adamo]

ooh it`s much better than counters!! counters disables self after use..

[beowuuf]

Yes. Although you could even use a DSA to remove a dead counter and replace it with a fresh one. There would be no reason to, as this is the way it's meant to work - beautiful, beautiful finite state machines!

[Sophia]

Oh, the elegant simplicity.
I've become too Luazy.

[Adamo]

hoorray!
first DSA written by me!
well, ok, actually, it`s Paul`s DSA modified a bit..

Code: Select all

0S0: 1N
0C0: J
1S0: 2N
1C0: 0J
2S0: 0LA MS*
2C0: 0LB MS*

[beowuuf]

well done!

aww, they grow up so quickly!

[TyGuy6]

Hehe. My solution would be to use knives, knife shooters, pressure pads. and teleporters. If you look through the right walls in my dungeon, you just might see a hidden teleporter mechanism at work.

[TyGuy6]

I'm having a problem. My alcoves work normally on level 1 of my dungeon, but on level 2 they don't work at all.

I see the alcove, but none of the objects I put in it. Also, I can't put anything in them. I'm using "disabled actuator" alcoves on normal walls and putting various objects in the same wall. I checked to make sure I had the alcove wall decoration on the 2nd level. Can somebody help?

[TyGuy6]

BTW, I'm using CSBuild 2.51, but I created the dungeon first in version 2.11. I have also edited several things with ADGE.

[beowuuf]

It must be ADGE that is the problem, as there should be nothing different, providing the graphics are the same, between your level 1 and level 2 alcoves!

Hmm... try mamking it a normal actuator and seeing if the engine activates something when you put the items down. That would definitely tie it to being a graphics not mechanics problem

[Zyx]

Did you try with the original graphics.dat?

[TyGuy6]

OK I switched the graphics out with two other graphics files. Both failed to fix the problem. Mechanics after all then?

[Zyx]

send me your dungeon.dat, I'll check if it works with me.
bprieu_at_yahoo.com