Playing DM with CSB Win,

[shuffle]

Just like to say I'm trying to beat this game. I honestly don't know if I will. Only on level 5, but enjoying it so much. After all it is the best game ever created.
First got this game in 1987 on the Atari STFM 520, and my brother loved it and completed it. I never had the patience to keep going, I have given up quite a few times.
Thanks for Paul Stevens -CSB win, I like the fact its the Atari ST copy.
I have just picked up the scroll that tells you how to create fireballs and the Illumulet neckless- that when worn creates a tiny bit of light.

[beowuuf]

Welcome to the forums! Let us know your progress as you go, and don't hesitate to ask for help

[shuffle]

Thanks beowuuf!
Have looked at these forums quite a bit over the last few years, thought it was about time I registered.
Playing DM last few weeks and thinking its staggering to think this games 25 years old

[Ameena]

Hello there! I echo what Wuffy said - welcome to the forums, and we look forward to hearing of your progress and are happy to give advice/hints if you need any .

[Seriously Unserious]

Hi and welcome to the forums shuffle.

I can only say that you should definitely keep at it, some of the most fun parts of the game are still to come, if you're still on level 5. So if you do get stuck, by all means, ask for help and someone here will be happy to give you some hints.

[shuffle]

Thanks for the welcoming messages,
heres where im stuck

Right now I'm looking at completing the Treasure Stores puzzle rooms - level 5. I'm stuck on two of them, one where the pits keep appearing, and there is corridor leading off to the top left and top right. I can make it to the the top right. Not the other way yet.
But the one that's really puzzling me is the room where you have the transporter sheilds - forward, right and left. I cant seem to get anywhere with this, I keep ending back at the start. I'm trying lots of diiferent combinations of transporting, ie keep turning right etc..

[Ameena]

Firstly, it's not essential that you clean out the Treasure Stores - you can skip that entire level if you want to, and not miss out anything important.
Directions for the teleporter room - from the entrance, step

Spoiler

right, back, forward, left, right, back

, and you should be at the other side.
For the pit room, the directions in my hint book work fine for getting me to the back-right corner, but I seem to have trouble getting to the left exit after that. These days I don't bother with that bit 'cause there's nothing essential to be had .

[beowuuf]

I believe that one you make it to the top right, then going directly top left becomes easier. But it's a toggle, so if you fail once, I think it's hard to get the right. And watch out for the critters!


Sad that even now I still recall that teleporter sequence too! It's like contra code for DM

[shuffle]

Thank you Ameena & beowuff. I will try this out again tonight. I know the Treasure Stores aren't vitally important, and I have managed to go on from there (Riddle room) and go forward. One of my characters Wuuf died at the end of level 4, (Worms by prisoner mummy), so I've been waiting and hoping for a Altar of rebirth on level 5.. and I've just found one by a stair way, which when you enter takes you to the Firestaff door and a scroll which has the fire spell. Although I returned to level 5 straightaway as havent done everything there yet (inc Treasure Stores).
Its easy to google and cheat, but I really want to try and crack this on my own, but appreciate in the old days peope could ask their friends for help, etc. So I dont mind occasionally asking here!

[Ameena]

Wuffy - I didn't actually remember the order for the teleport room. I was gonna look it up in my book, but I couldn't find it! So I looked at the scans instead, on the Encyclopaedia .
Shuffle - Yeah, it's so much easier to get past stuff in games now. I think people take it for granted that if you get stuck, you can just go online and there'll be a forum somewhere in which someone's posted up how to get past that bit. Plus I think games these days tend to be considerably easier than they used to be. Back then you just got plonked into the game with little or no instructions on how to do stuff (or even what you're supposed to do, as in the case of DM unless you've read the intro story in the manual), whereas now you get tutorials and all sorts of stuff to guide you through it.

[beowuuf]

Well then apparently Im just sadder than you :p


I think VI altaars are every three levels, so you need to find the one part of the way through level 6. Anyone contradict that statement?

[shuffle]

the teleport room, that combination worked. Thanks, I would have to start writing combos down to get past that.
I found a Altar VI at the end of level 5, near a staircase. so wuuf is back with the party.
Now back to the Treasure store room, just the disappearing pits.. If I cant get this I'll move on. One more try

[beowuuf]

I do seem to recall the first safe square on the right toggles a pit in the middlr to help you move to the left side, hugging the common wall

[Seriously Unserious]

Wuffy - I think games these days tend to be considerably easier than they used to be. Back then you just got plonked into the game with little or no instructions on how to do stuff (or even what you're supposed to do, as in the case of DM unless you've read the intro story in the manual), whereas now you get tutorials and all sorts of stuff to guide you through it.

I've noticed that about today's games, the puzzles and riddles seem to have been replaced with fast action and flashy graphics.

Although most modern games do include some sort of tutorial mode, I have noticed a trend in producing less in the way of published instructions, then pre-internet era games, which always came with a hard copy manual which, in most cases, was pretty detailed. In those days game developers had to, you couldn't just post something online if anyone got stuck, as very few people had access to any sort of internet, which was definitely nothing like what it is today in any case. So if you wanted your game to sell at least decently you had to invest in at least a decent hard copy instruction manual. Since the rise of the internet, I've noticed game developers are more likely to skimp on the instruction manual, preferring to rely on online resources and in game tutorials. Unfortunately, online resources may not cover all the features in a game, just the ones someone has had trouble with using and asked about.

[Bit]

Firstly, it's not essential that you clean out the Treasure Stores - you can skip that entire level if you want to, and not miss out anything important.
Directions for the teleporter room - from the entrance, step

Spoiler

right, back, forward, left, right, back

, and you should be at the other side.
For the pit room, the directions in my hint book work fine for getting me to the back-right corner, but I seem to have trouble getting to the left exit after that. These days I don't bother with that bit 'cause there's nothing essential to be had .

Nonononono - it's about painting the map with no square left unrevealed!

Spoiler

which is after all impossible because of a few hidden squares for some game mechanics, I know

[Ameena]

Some games do provide a manual, but it tends to be in the form of a PDF...which I can never be arsed to open because that means waiting for it to load. I could be playing a game or mooching around on the Net in that time! Much easier to just have a flip through a paper manual while I'm waiting for somehing to load. And I don't even do that very often .
I seem to be playing more Indy games than "big name" games these days. Okay so I just got Diablo III for my birthday, but that was more my dad's idea than mine, really - I had no big plans to rush out and get it for several reasons. But this year I've played several games from small companies - Grimrock and Torchlight II for example. And I've backed a couple of Kickstarter - Arakion, Elite: Dangerous, and Godus. And Sentinels of the Multiverse but that's not a computer game.
Anyway, best not derail the thread too much, eh? Maybe only a bit for now - we can go totally off-topic later on like we normally do .

[Seriously Unserious]

On the topic of Indie games, if you look up RPGMaker on a search engine, you will find a site chalked full of free, Indie RPG's, with the early 90's Nintendo look and feel. But one of my favorite Indie games is not an RPG, and it's about as Indie as they get, a single programer developed it in his spare time. The version I'm playing now was released as shareware, and is called Gamebiz 3, the 2, earlier versions, Gamebiz and Gamebz 2, are both freeware, if you don't want to pay the registration fee for the shareware version.

[shuffle]

seem to doing pretty well, pushing ahead that's for sure. Managed to open 2 Firestaff doors with an RA key. Not entirely sure what level im on :p . Firstly I seem to have found a stairway which has stairs up/down lots of levels.. I take it that's the quick way to reach levels you've completed? (Seem to access these with a skeleton key).
There is a puzzle 'Beware my twisted humour, the deceiver, the snake'. Its really funny as I remember that puzzle back from the late eighties, when my brother played it. First time..

Spoiler

I knew to weave round like a snake

.
Now saved on the puzzle 'ZOOOOOM'. Loving this, absolutely immersive, absorbing. just hope I can complete DM once and for all. p.s no speed boots found yet, but I do try and walk into as many walls as possible!

[beowuuf]

Yup, the skeleton key stairwell is a cool shortcut, and if you;ve opened the one on the rat level, it's also a quick short cut back to food and water!


The boots of speed are tough to find, good luck! And you are already a decent way through level 10 now, number 1 - 14. I don't think you will have any trouble finishing the game this time around, I just hope you keep having as much fun

[Ameena]

Yeah, I think there are only four pairs of Speed Boots in the whole dungeon, and they're all hidden pretty well. From something like Level 9, there's a skeleton key on every level except erm, 13 I think - there is one key too few to open all the entrances to the stairwell, but you can just avoid opening it on Level 12 or something (because that level is horrible ). As Wuffy has mentioned, opening the stairwell on Level 9 is very useful, at least, so you have quick access to a fountain and the nearby Rat Room.
Sounds like you're doing pretty well so far, anyway - keep at it!

[Seriously Unserious]

I think one pair of the boots of speed is on the firestaff level, behind one of the 4 doors where you can only open 1 of them with a key, of which only 1 exists in the whole game.

[Ameena]

There's definitely also another one on

Spoiler

Level 12

, in the

Spoiler

Spider Room

as well, not that I've ever really bothered trying to get it .

[Seriously Unserious]

Oh yeah, I remember those now, of course, that level also has some of the most annoying monsters in the game.

Spoiler

especially the materialisers and animated armors.

[shuffle]

good hearing your thoughts on DM boys.
Happy Christmas, hope you're enjoying the break (holidays) . I've got to get that fireplace lit, and play DM.

[Seriously Unserious]

yes, holiday fires and mastering the dungeon of chaos are both very important.

[beowuuf]

Yip, have a happy DM filled christmas!

[MasterWuuf]

good hearing your thoughts on DM boys.
Happy Christmas, hope you're enjoying the break (holidays) . I've got to get that fireplace lit, and play DM.

I wonder how many of the rest of these guys/gals are checking your comments with the same interest as I?

Finishing DM the first time, or at least great memories of 'getting to the last moments of the game' the first time, surely bring back an almost childlike pleasure to me.

Hope you make it this time.

[shuffle]

Hi MasterWuuf
yes I cant seem to put this game down at the moment. Its a case of keep coming back to it. It is wonderful being able to play a Atari ST port on the PC - and it runs so well, never crashed on me. Touch wood!
I think I'm on level 11. Yesterday and today I have encountered a water elemental (I don't know how to dispose of these, err water splash creatures yet) a Knight and Materializers. I did fall down a pit and couldn't get past a flame pit, I remember these from years ago, but have yet sussed how to walk over it.
One of my characters, Halk, does not have any mana, is there a way I can make him achieve magic? Maybe I've left it too late.
This game is no walk over that's for sure. I have to be 'on the ball', as in you can easily forget where you in game and also where you are next time you load up a save. Amazing how you get a feel for the dungeons though. It certainly keeps the old brain active :p

[beowuuf]

There are two ways to hurt those without proper form like ghosts and elementals. One is the correct spell, the other is a certain wavy black weapon. The second is available twice on the skeleton and wizard eye level (the level before the tomb of the firestaff)

Certain items give bonus mana when held/worn. The moonstone, the wavy weapons, the teowand, other wands and staves, all give a small amount of mana. So you can start casting low level priest spells to build up true mana on these characters. It's a little bit of a slog, but on the plus side the early levels of priest/wizard are quick to gain, especially if you are getting experience on the deeper levels, so you could give him some small magical abilities to heal and cast light, and take the strain from your powerful casters.

Experience gain is greater in combat than outside, so burn off such starting mana while attacking or near creatures if possible!

[Seriously Unserious]

I think I'm on level 11. Yesterday and today I have encountered a water elemental (I don't know how to dispose of these, err water splash creatures yet) a Knight and Materializers. I did fall down a pit and couldn't get past a flame pit, I remember these from years ago, but have yet sussed how to walk over it.

Level 11 is a very challenging level, as I'll never forget... as for the water elementals and flame pits, and anything else like them that comes up, if you can't harm it with normal spells (ie fireballs, poison, etc) or weapons (ie swords, axes, arrows, etc) then the monster falls in the category of non-matierial, and as beowuuf said, you need a special weapon, or a specific spell to harm them.

Also, each monster has different resistances to different types of spells, so it may be a good idea to try different spells on different monsters to see which ones work best. Some monsters may be highly vulnerable to poison based spells, while another may be very resistant to poison, but vulnerable to fireballs, but another monster may be resistant/immune to all spells. If one attack spell doesn't seem to be working, try a different spell and see if it looks like it works, and if not, try another, until you either find one that obviously works, or you've run out of spells to try, in which case the monster may not be affected by spells, and you'll just have to have your fighters hack away at it. Also, don't forget about your ninja skills, even if you can't harm a monster with spells, your back characters can still soften a monster up a bit by throwing/shooting stuff at monsters, even if their wizard spells don't hurt whatever monster(s) you're facing.