Go deep or fight?

[MasterWuuf]

To advance 'fighter' skills, would a person advance more quickly:

1a. Fighting with a weapon against an adversary on the screamer level.

1b. Fighting with a weapon against an adversary on the rat level.

2. Pummeling the wall with a weapon on the bottom level.
(the stairs to the bottom dungeon level).

[beowuuf]

Possibly 1b?

You gain double the XP, or something similar, when a monster is beside you. Someone who remmeberes the DME data or has looked at the source code recently can say for sure. Level depth is a number from 1 - 6 that influences your experience gain, so I think the difference between depth '4' or whatever the rat level is counted as and '6' the dragon level is counted as doens't make up for the monster XP gain. (you basically gain '8' to '6' times if I am recalling all this correctly)

The correct answer is 3 - DON'T EVER TRAIN YOUR PARTY!

[Sophia]

Every attack method in DM has an XP value. For example, "SWING" gives 6 XP. This is multiplied by the level's XP multiplier, and, as beo stated, halved when you're not actually swinging at a monster. It's also halved if you haven't been attacked by a monster in 30 seconds or so. However, it is doubled (from its full value, so 8x the value you get when you're not swinging at anything anywhere) when you have been very recently attacked by a monster. In addition, when you actually hit the monster, you get an XP bonus equal to the hit power times what in DSB is called the "xp_factor" of the monster, divided by 16. You also get an additional 3 XP bonus for any hit, even if the other bonus works out to zero.

So, keeping in mind that the XP multiplier for level 2 (at least, that's what I think you mean by "the screamer level") is 1, the XP multiplier for level 9 (the "rat level") is 3, and the multiplier for the bottom is 6, we can figure this out.

For a "SWING" at a monster, which misses, and we have not yet been attacked by that monster, the values work out to 3 (6 * 1 / 2), 9 (6 * 3 / 2), and 9 (6 * 6 / 4). So it's a tie between 1b and 2. If we have been attacked, the values with monsters are no longer halved and are instead doubled, so 1b is the clear winner with 36. Finally, actually hitting the monster can't be worked out because I don't know what kind of monster we're fighting (I can assume a screamer and a rat, but I don't know for sure) and how much damage the hit does. Hits against screamers tend to be rather punishing, but a screamer's xp_factor is 0, so you get no bonus for a hit. Against a rat, you get a bonus of half of the hit power (its xp_factor is 8, divided by 16) so in these cases 1b is still the highest value.

[Ameena]

The "Screamer level" could also be Level 4 - that's what I first thought when I read the post, since that's where the Screamer Room is...

[beowuuf]

I assumed so too, since the screamer room and rat room are the two acknowledged training areas

[Sophia]

Ok, then the multiplier is 2, but the outcomes don't change all that much.

[MasterWuuf]

And I was hoping the 'smack the wall' trick, at the bottom level, would be such a benefit.
I suppose it still has the benefit of being without anyone fighting and screaming at you.
(Should this be on the 'child suggestion' thread? )

Still, I wouldn't want to stand too close to the wall, when I decided to toss out a few fireballs or poison clouds.

Hmmm. If you hurt yourself with a fireball or poison cloud, does that up the experience points for a time?

[Sophia]

If you hurt yourself with a fireball or poison cloud, does that up the experience points for a time?

If by "up the experience points for a time" you mean activate any sort of multipliers, then no. You do get some XP for being injured, but only by a monster's attack-- at least in standard DM/CSB, and DSB as well. If I remember correctly, RTC gives (or gave) you XP for any damage. I don't know what formulas RTC uses, so I don't know what it does for multipliers or whatever.

[MasterWuuf]

One of the tricks I used, years back, to bolster my heroes in other games,
was to tape a stack of pennies together on an action key.
(Computer based games, mostly)

I've never done this with DM. I have noticed that the Q/A/Z keys operate the three options for physical attack in DM.
I am currently an Adept Fighter (Wuuf alone) in a DM game.
I took Wuuf to the bottom level, armed her with an axe, and laid a stack of nickels on the A key.
(chop, chop, chop, you get the picture)
I then ventured forth to other activities, coming back about 10-15 minutes later.
Huh? No level increase? And I'm only at Adept too.

[Jan]

Perhaps you should discuss it with Octopuss, who's been training his party in the Screamer room for a few years now.

I've never been too much into these "artificial" or "unreal" training activities - I always kill a few screamers in one room, a few rats in the other, and then hurry further. I've never had enough patience for the "clicking-races".

[oh_brother]

In a previous thread I asked Octopuss about training, he uses an auto-mouse program, and it seemed to work well!

I suppose it is a 21st century version of a pile of nickels

[MasterWuuf]

I'll have to try it again, later. If it works, it's as slow as mud.
Still, if a person has something else to do while it's working, it's a freebie.

[Joramun]

Trantor's advice : GO DEEP !

[MasterWuuf]

I understand that experience is increased if a monster is standing 'next' to you.

If I stand outside the gate, on the 'rat' section, are the rats still close enough to give an experience bonus?
I figure they are one step away, since they step into the gate section if the gate is open.

If the experience is not increased there, if a person walks around the other end
and stops on the other side of the wall, will the wall count as a space,
or will the experience receive a bonus, since the rats are just beyond it?

[Sophia]

No, "next to" means exactly that, immediately next to. No doors, walls, or anything else in the way.

[Ameena]

I think creatures have to be in the square next to you - doors and walls take up one square, so if a creature is on the other side of one of those things from you, then it won't count, because then they're two squares away. Nice try .

[MasterWuuf]

Waaah! Suddenly, the world is a larger, and much DARKER, place.

[Ameena]

Oops, looks like I simul-posted with Soph last night - d'oh .

[MasterWuuf]

Oops, looks like I simul-posted with Soph last night - d'oh .

Repetition is a very useful tactic to 'get it through the head' of some people.
(Of course, I would surely not be referring to myself )

I placed my game in 'very slow' mode, placed my 20th century pile of nickels on the proper key, then went to bed for about five hours.
(Trying to up my fighter level, which was at expert when I went to bed)

I returned to find I hadn't gained any levels.

No big deal, since I've opened the skeleton key entrance to the rat area,
but the Priest level went from third-level Master to fourth-level Master in far less time.

Is there a great deal of difference, between Priest and Fighter, in experience needs to go up levels?
If not, I seem to have 'pounded my axe into the wall' for very little

Spoiler

no seeming

purpose.

[beowuuf]

All experience needed for each level is equal. What XP you get for each action - not sure, look at the encyclopedia tables to compare I guess

[Sophia]

I think community testing has found that the best way to get priest XP relatively easily is to repeatedly warcry a fearless, rather weak monster, like a screamer.

[MasterWuuf]

I swapped the axe for a vorpal blade and tried again. I jumped the next two levels relatively fast.

Glitch in the system, perhaps? The world may never know...or for that matter, the world may never CARE to know.

Say, but attacking the rats in the 'quicker than a bunnie' mode was interesting.

[Banky]

So, how did your training work out after all?
I'm curious because I'm currently trying the same thing. I use this "Auto Mouse" Octopuss recommended and try to chop air and warcry screamers
but I usually end up dying of thirst and hunger without levelling even once
After an hour of chopping with Delta on the bottom level, Darou wasn't able to improve his expert fighter. What a disappointment!

Also, what version do you play? I can't use Q/A/Z keys (or any keys) on the Dos version to perform physical attacks. Just walking.

Point is, I wanted to create a super character to play Chaos Strikes Back.
Never tried that game since the old Amiga days

[Jan]

Hey, Banky's still alive! And with a new avatar! Oh, Venice!

Don't train too much, just walk there and kick some asses!

[MasterWuuf]

I went to the lowest level, by using the stairway found on the 'fireball' arena (my name for the second level after the 'four tests' level).

It may not be quite as fast as fighting screamers or rats,
but no creatures interrupt you, and you can get fairly good at judging when you will need food and water.

I used the vorpal blade to level up as a Wizard, as well as a Fighter.
I removed my weapons to level up as a Ninja and a Priest.

[beowuuf]

I agree, you don't need to level as much. I levelled when I was waiting for CSB during the Amiga days, and CSB went out of print! Learn from my lesson!

[Sophia]

To test Joramun's DSB-DM I started a solo run with Halk. I got him some mana fairly quickly by warcrying the first screamer.

It's funny how it goes now... I blazed through Level 2 in like 5 minutes. When I first got DM I remember wandering around there for hours! We didn't get to level 3 until the second day.

[Banky]

Hey, Banky's still alive! And with a new avatar! Oh, Venice!

Don't train too much, just walk there and kick some asses!

Hey, been around every now and then... to read what you guys got to say
I've been replaying old Bard's Tale games in the meantime. Old games = new avatar and so many old memories

As for training, I wanna try something new. I beat this game so many times, never had an all-master-character, though.
Plus I gotta admit, I love power gaming. Levelling up has always been the most fun for me in classical RPGs. And it's something I miss on these modern RPG games, where everything is about actual character devolping (like is he good or evil), spending skill points on professions, clicking through endless dialogues and having a defined amount of monsters you are to beat til the finale.

@MasterWuuf: Thank you for your recent update
I'm also in this fireball arena level, took the skeleton short cut to the lowest level and switched on my vorpal blade.
Let's see how fast Darou improves

[MasterWuuf]

I went to get Gothmog (reincarnated and renamed after a very familiar character on the forum ).
When I took him down to the bottom level, facing the wall, I leveled up amazingly fast.
(Just checked his stats. He's Master/Master/Expert/Master already)

Talk about making a WIMP a Master BADBOY in a short period of time.

P.S. I tried using the axe to level up the Fighter stats.
Slow and you expend a lot of energy (had to drink a couple of stamina potions just to raise the level up from Apprentice)

I then picked up a vorpal blade, using the jab feature.
I went up from Apprentice without using any stamina potions. Much faster, as well.
Er, he was 'due' for a stamina potion by the time he went to the next level.

[beowuuf]

But did you do it again facing the air? As far as I kno,w there is no difference between wall and air, or even wall and door. It's monster or no monster, right?