[RTC] Bane of the Cosmic Forge

[PaulH]

In development, about halfway there! Decided to try and convert the game to RTC. Of course, for those who have played Bane, they will know that the mechanics are markedly different - for a start the time is not live in Bane, it is phased with a totally different combat mechanism. Add to that it used 'thin' walls, text entry (and heavy text use), different puzzles and NPCs, then this is quite a task.

Nevertheless, the maps and story will be very close to the original, with an RTC slant on other areas to try and emulate some of the gameplay, plus my own version of traps for some treasures. Have drawn many new wallsets - here are a couple of early screenshots:





Hoping to get a release in Spring next year.

[the master]

PaulH This looks absolutely awesome and I can't wait to play it when it comes out. Are there any parts that are underwater as in Black Crypt, its just that I was looking at the top screen?

[PaulH]

No part is underwater, though some areas are on water

It was between Black Crypt and Bane on which game I was going to emulate. I think in many ways Black Crypt is superior to Dungeon Master!

[Gambit37]

I never played Bane so I don't know how your version will compare, but it's looking good so far. Nice work
Darn though: you used the Wizardy 7 fish. I was going to use that in Zagor. Will have to find a replacement now.

(OT: I'd disagree that Black Crypt was better than DM. While some of it's RPG elements were better, overall it was much less satisfying than DM. I think the main problem was seemingly arbitrary dungeon design with no real rhyme or reason. Random buttons, random teleporters, lots of random unconnected stuff. The DM (and CSB) dungeons just felt better constructed.)

[PaulH]

Hehe, yes, the Wizardry Unicode editors contain some nice stuff!

I though BC gelled quite nicely - many might say CSB was rather random too! Most of the RPGs of the time were good, with pros and cons.

[Gambit37]

True enough
For your Bane conversion, will it help to have played the original, or can it be enjoyed without any prior knowledge?

[PaulH]

It can be played without knowledge of the original as all the story texts will be included. Though of course having played it will be an advantage. It may not appeal to all!

[Trantor]

I'm looking forward to this. I replayed Bane just about a year ago, and it was still as fun as it was the first time.
Can you do me a favor and PLEASE tone down the mines a bit? They were terribly annoying, I always got lost there even WITH maps.

Having played through Doom Blade twice already, I'd say you found quite some stuff which reminded you of Bane, right?

[PaulH]

Hehe, did find a few references, yes!

The mines should be easier in the DM format, but we will see lol.

[Zed5Duke]

Will you use wizardry game resources like was in EoB dungeon i seen here around, or its just something inspired and not very similar?

No part is underwater, though some areas are on water

It was between Black Crypt and Bane on which game I was going to emulate. I think in many ways Black Crypt is superior to Dungeon Master!

BC have great atmosphere, one game similar to it is Crystal Dragon, but i dont like so much secret switch, pad etc in both games. Also worth try is Hexen 2 made by the same peoples from Raven Software, so it have the same touch of dark rpg style and have many puzzles, its not another quake or something.

[PaulH]

Hopefully inspired and similar

The conversion of EOB is very good, but also in some ways simpler due to similar graphics and engine. Bane is not similar at all But as above all the story will be there, the basic map structure will be similar and many puzzles and items.

[raixel]

PaulH -

Was wondering how this project has been coming along, if youre still working on it, ect. BotCF was one of my favorite games back in the day (Ive beaten every single Wizardry game made) and I have been anticipating this project with interest in my own quiet lurker way.

[PaulH]

Sorry for the very late reply, have been on holiday and without the internet.

Is coming on slowly but surely! Keep doing bits now and again. Won't be ready for a long time though!

[raixel]

I will be (im)patiently waiting, then.

[Trantor]

PaulH -

Was wondering how this project has been coming along, if youre still working on it, ect. BotCF was one of my favorite games back in the day (Ive beaten every single Wizardry game made) and I have been anticipating this project with interest in my own quiet lurker way.

Wow, you beat Wizardry 4? I bow to you! I recently tried playing that evil, vile thing, and it was already too much before I even got to the juicier parts.

[Zed5Duke]

I think problem in big project is balance, character progress (monster difficulty) when you can go anywhere.

[Darth Mouse]

Best of Luck have only played wizardy 6 once
Played Crusaders of the Dark Savant last year (wizardry 7)
At the moment am in the Tower of Champions which in its scope reminded me most of wizardy 7
Similar type puzzles and items found are not necessarily used till later and you have to discover how they fit in
So I think this is a great idea and even though there are major differences between the system's
Magic and the Wizardry games ususally are turn based & not real time
this should be fun

[Zed5Duke]

Am guess you played Wizardry 8 ? Tell me what was your favourite team

Game is pretty complex and i read on few site how to begin but eventualy make own experiments and already play with this team:

Samurai in front, master sword (seem like only right arm sword multiple hit)
Two Ninja on side with spears, basic healing and work here as thieves (one trained in lockpicks second in pickpocket) Am invest lot in criticals but there is no visible results so far
Two mages one master in fire earth divinity, second master in water air mind
Priest, so far best in team he later have divinity spell instant kill which seem to be more effective from ninja criticals and his spell make wounds make more damage from ninja spear

Am still not lose hope that ninja will begin to be usefull later, sometime they kill boss by one dart but monster must be frozen and stand very close, its something about chances to hit, probably need lot of skill in range attack and throwing to kill from distance, not sure

Whole battles are win by mages, where (i check statistics) mage fire earth kill largest amount of enemies from party members. In fact its not just what peoples are in team but what they are develop.

[PaulH]

I never played 8 - though played 7 (gold).

I always found less characters easier to play with as level up quicker.

[Zed5Duke]

In my opinion its best from old rpgs, worth try.

I hear that is possible to finish it with one character ninja sprite, must try it later. He probably must find correct equipment during game, so this is for experienced playes who known where to find them. Lately i found chest in obscure place which contain ninjato sword +5% to instant kill, items with such bonus give faster criticals. This is pretty interesting when appear shaking ground boss and you kill him in one first hit.

[Zed5Duke]

Ok finished Wiz8, samurai in stats have largerst amount of kills so maybe this is best character for playing solo. Now am curious about Wiz7 never played it, have no idea how run it.

[PaulH]

It runs on XP fine for me.

[Suule]

I recommend Dos Version + DOSBOX and patch it with Cosmic Forge beforehand. I've read that there is some game breaking bugs/anomalies in Wizardry Gold, so I returned back to the roots.

As for the party in Wiz8 (Start anew):

All female - Dracon Samurai, Rawulf Valkyre, Felpurr Bard, Mook Inventor, Elf Bishop, Pixie Psionic. In all seriousness I think I would be better if that Felpurr Bard was switched with Pixie Ninja.

[Zed5Duke]

Am now play minimal team of two person Ninja and Monk. Both am train to maximum in martial art. Its interesting skill because have better damage and amount of attacks from use many sword axe etc weapons, and dont need to train dual weapons. Damage of kick and punch in increased with progress in skill, at begining it look weak and funny so many players underrate it.

BTW there is level editor to wizardry games: Cosmic Forge
http://mad-god.webs.com/

[zoom]

@Zed5Duke:
do you now play wiz8 or do you play wiz7?I think still 8 because you mention dual weapons.

also: do you play with 3 or 2 persons? Nin nin monk or nin monk??

there are many pages about wizardry.

In wiz8 you should choose all female, because apparently only females can use stamina regeneration necklaces.
Like Suule suggested..

The best weapon in wiz7 game for nin is cane of corpus, however usable only by faery (ninja).

ninja can hide and if successful, ninja does not get targeted by spells* or melee. Also benefit from skill ninjitsu for AC for Monk and Ninja, plus get bonus on hit if hidden)
(*in the opitmal case. If a monster targets your fighter with a fireball , I think also the hidden ninja will get hit, because it affects the whole party, but not sure. So ninja is better off alone or with other hiding characters(need ninjitsu).
Note that you could always take a class that can hide, put points there and switch to e.g. samurai. Then you got hiding samurai, effectively all party can learn hiding skill after a while.
(you could solo wiz7 with a faery ninja, maybe only with that class?)

apparently you do not need snake eye skill for ninjas, since range is shorter than bow and -as said - ninja got already bonus on throwing (penetrate armor)
these special skills are existing in wiz7 also. Not in Wiz6
Wizardry 6 I would really chose Mage and Priest instead of Bishop, because you get spells with bishop very very slowly, and Mages are quicker to become more powerful therefore (learn fireball at the right moment, which is big timesaver; so Mage gets most kill statistic then )

atm I do not play any wizardry but they are great games
tried wizardry 1-3 NES versions, they are also quite good. But yet a bit different to the later versions.

anyone knows why wizardry did not continue? There was wizards and warriors? maybe wheel of time!!
I heard some time ago about the japanese having some newer wizardry titles, they are not getting translated however...

[PaulH]

This is the great thing about Wizardy (6 and 7 at least) - the huge variabilty in tactics. This also allows for great replayability.

Changing classes can be useful if you plan them right, and don't forget you can transfer characters (and some items!) from Bane to Gold, though you are limited back to level five chars.

I have finsihed both with one character, changing classes to up the skills, usually ending up with a Samurai to make use of the Muramasa blade, the best melee weapon in Bane.

[Zed5Duke]

Yeah.. I forgot that I have Wizards & Warriors in collection.. it was so odd that played it only one day, but maybe worth try again it have some connections to wizardry.

Am finished wiz8 with 6 peoples then tryed again with small teams of 3, 2 and even 1 person, but dont make long progress, it require skilling and leveling, and its boring it dont go that smooth like with larger team, but am believe it is possible.

[zoom]

what I personally always liked about the wizardry series was that there are many eastern-style weapons.

shiken shuriken, standard shuriken, naginata, bo, hi-kane do as armor, nunchakus, then katana ,wakizashi and so on..
some aren´t 100% existant in reality, like the No-Dachi (2h katana) but that´s ok I guess. Or I could be wrong


By and large, you do not find that many in other games.
DM for instance has a "samurai sword" (approximately a katana) and also a Throwing Star(looks like shuriken).
I guess that´s about it. Oh, ok you had the ghi and ghi trousers..
You could also count in that there is a ninja class in Dungeon Master.

I think this is due to being faithful to medieval theme or sth.. Could explain why they worded the eastern sword samurai sword; So its from a design perspective; The champions don´t know many foreign weaponry, It is taken for granted that the player does not know any asiatic things either. Probably helps to convey a better/more suited approach since more concise

anyways, Wizardry has a good replay value that is true. Shame that you can´t recruit party members from the dungeon.. Wizardry 8 incorporated this. I liked that very much in Eotb..

[PaulH]

Nodachi is a real sword, a huge weapon!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nodachi

But a lot of names were made up ie Blade Cuisinart... Cusinart is a brand of cooking tools lol.

[Zed5Duke]

These japan-origin stuff was best and actualy for that I like Wiz8, so it would be cool if you read wiki and bring to game all of this stuff and even more that was in Wizardrys. Probably best ninja weapon is kusarigama, I dont found it in game.