TIME'S CHAMPIONS: Finale OOC thread

[beowuuf]

Karnadee: I think a combination of Westian's experiences and the path of truth effect means you can assume a knowledge of some of these things!

The sword: The onyx at its hilt is actually a fake. It's really just a thick glass shell. Inside is a powerful acid. If you smash the pommel hard enough against an area or a target, then the acid will be released. There is a slight chance of splshback in combat, but of course the acid could be useful as either a nasty weapon, or even as a nice tool for some sneaky plan.


I'm afraid I will be away from Saturday, not coming back until Tuesday. Sorry for a delay, which will co-incide, I fear, with you guys knowing what you wanna do! Oh well. Given you really do know this is it, and the end is in sight, then hopefully a little delay is forgiveable. Funnily, we have only @6 more weeks before the two year anniversary! I've loved doing this game, but it also seems a nice round number to finish on. After all, Raixel is waiting in the wings to torment a whole new cast of characters in new evil ways

[ian_scho]

yeah, gl Raixel!

If Dolo is isolated we could try and deal with him on his own. That would have two effects: (1) make the grak-graks go crazy (hopefully while we are far away) and (2) that would leave Garax without an ally, so maybe Dargat would seize the chance to get rid of him (wishful thinking perhaps).

This is my sentiment exactly. Only interesting things can happen with grak-graks running around unleashed! I think we need to be as sneaky as possible, and Dolo's route is the most likely - or at least that is my understanding!

What I don't know what to do though is 'next'. How to solve the final puzzle and kick ass?! We must beat down the black-skull leader to unconsciousness, sure. But Theron and the other über heroes? Will be tricky. Need lots of pots or something
Also with Petal's 'other half' running around... Maybe cause some problems later on?

[beowuuf]

Petal's other half may cause problems later on, as in with Raixel's game. Or not. That's out of the hands of this humble DM and directly in the hands of the next!

[Ameena]

Here are my thoughts on how to deal with everyone known to be in or near that final room...
Dolo - Kick his arse spiritually, and then if his body isn't destroyed or incapacitated as a result then go and make sure that it is - physically he looks as though he'd be an absolute pushover if taken by himself as he seems very weak and frail. It's his mental powers and wandering spirit that do the damage.
Garax - As I mentioned, Haynuus and I nearly took him down before, just the two of us. He's tough, but not excessively so, and might still be weakened from that earlier encounter. If Dolo is taken care of he'll have lost his main (and possibly only) ally so his morale will be demolished .
Dargat - Currently an unknown quantity. I presume he's much tougher than Garax. I don't know of any special magical abilities he might have but he sounds like a bit of a tank, physically. I'll need to go through the PMs Wuffy sent me months ago (when Ameena was in the other timeline or something and got all these memories of these people) and see if I have any more detail on him.
Gholst/Theron - I reckon we need to talk to Theron. We need to persuade him to let Karnadee go, which will mean Gholst has no further hold over him and Theron can therefore kick his arse. It might also be an idea to mention that he's got one of the Soulstone pieces, that Gholst hid it on his person somewhere (again, I'll need to check my PMs to see if I have any further info on the location)...though probably best not to say anything about it while there's a chance Gholst can then take over and try to kick our arses or something.
Passin - Yeah, remember he's up there too . We don't know if he's tried to back out of being a Blackskull or something. He might be telling the uber guys all about us, or he might be about to be killed by Dargat so Dolo can put his soul into the Blackskull armour or something. For now I suppose he's another unknown quantity.
Regarding the Soulstone - remember there are two pieces left. There's the largest chunk, which I think was possibly in some way in Dargat's possession, or might just be in its stand thingy up in that top room - it would be good if we could find this out, but maybe the fish-ball* can help us there. I'll see about giving it a try if Westy doesn't turn up anything. And the final Soulstone piece, as mentioned, is in the possession of Gholst/Theron but without the latter's knowledge.
Whatever happens, I recommend we do not fully rebuild the Soulstone until Gholst is dealt with - otherwise we might just end up repeating what happened in the First Run. It would probably be best not to even hint that we've got half the Stone on us in front of Gholst. He might get a bit...funny about it.
Oh, and as for the grak-graks...hmm, well, Dolo doesn't have complete control over them like Soorec did. It probably won't even take killing Dolo for him to lose control - just distracting him enough might be likely to do it. And, you know, if we distract him when he's standing between us and at least one grak-grak, I reckon that he might possibly find out rather quickly what Soorec felt like in his last moments . We should probably be careful, though, that we don't take out Dolo and then have the grak-graks gatecrash our imminent victory while we're finishing off Gholst or something .


*Yeah I know it only had a fish in it that one time but I can't think what else to call it .

[raixel]

He has a burn wound that he got from work, it was being treated but still got infected. His main Dr told him to go to a certain ER. Our medical shit in the US blows ass unless your rich and have insurance (neither one of us do, insurance averages like 200/mo to pay on your own or from work its ike 80/mo and they dont cover shit) so he went to the hospital that the doc told him to yesterday, fully expecting to be admitted. They left him sitting in a room for 8 hours, told him he has a serious infection, and then told him to go to this major hospital in the area that is a charity/teaching hospital (where he didnt want to go cuz they kept on threatening to cut off his arm cuz thats where he originally went when he got injured. It also sucks piss and there was feces and blood on the bathroom floor in his room that he asked 3 times to be cleaned and AFAIK, they never did. Oh, and the have students working on you and let me just tell you its all kinds of SUCK. Ive never been actually admitted to a hospital in my life mostly cuz the medical care here is so shitty if youre poor (or even just working/middle class but cant afford insurance) and Ive been lucky to never be seriously injured. Even if I was, i probably would litearally just try and stitch it up myself) AND THEN SENT HIM HOME WITH NOTHING. No antibiotics, NOTHING. So he has to go to the other one tommorrow. So yeah, fun.

Hence why Ive been on here a lot, it helps me stop thinking of it.

[raixel]

See, ive been playing Petal like she has no realy clue whats going on, cuz she doesnt. I do, but it wouldnt make sense for her to know what happened before she showed up, so she's mostly just tagging along and has an interest in defeating the blackskulls because they are causing Disbalance. She really wants Dolo's ass handed to him, though.

[Ameena]

Damn that healthcare system sounds really shit and so do the hospitals. Hope your friend is okay. Pity he can't just come all the way over here and get it sorted - the hospitals were really good with a friend of mine who got ill a year ago...
Meanwhile Ameena has not much clue of what's going on either, since her race is quite simple in their outlooks - they're not "stupid" at all, but just don't understand all this complicated stuff that other races seem to like engaging in. I reckon I'm not gonna be much use in the big fight at the end due to the anti-violence views (but you wait till the next game ) but maybe I can do some of the taking-to-Theron or yoinking-of-the-Soulstone . Though how big does it look like the finished Soulstone is gonna be? Will Ameena be able to hold it? And what about the largest fragment?

[beowuuf]

Obviously one of the benefits of going down the riskier path of truth was supposed to be that you guys can have an odd awareness of what the others know and have done as flashes from where your minds were temporarily joined. So you don't have to play completely ignorant to the plot. The soulstone will be two handed and large for Ameena, but holdeable. Not something she can sneak in to a pouch though. And I've given you a ton of non-violent options and stuff to do, plus just being in the fight flanking and pulling focus is good enough.

In a way, it's not that you need to fight, you need to stop Helm being hurt or Ameena will effectively die too.


So, two votes were cast for facing Dolo and going along the path of light then? And it soudns liek Westian at least is pushing for the group staying together. Obviously your potion / spell casting falls in to two parts. The first is stuff you use right now (like YA potions, perhaps strength potions) that have only perhaps an encounter to run. The second are potions you produce and keep. Tally up the flasks, and kinda work out your spell slots here. Obviousdly you only need one empty flask for all your 'now' potions, so it's just a case of who gets what

And also you might want to weigh in on the Westian versus Haynuus over using the MON+ strength anti-venom on Helm.

[beowuuf]

And yeah, that hospital thing is pretty damn appauling Raixel. All the best to your friend, and obviously you as you worry about them!

[ian_scho]

Regarding the Soulstone - remember there are two pieces left. There's the largest chunk, which I think was possibly in some way in Dargat's possession, or might just be in its stand thingy up in that top room - it would be good if we could find this out, but maybe the fish-ball* can help us there. I'll see about giving it a try if Westy doesn't turn up anything.

You should post words to that effect in the IC thread, me thinks. Good idea!
I agree with the possibilities you're offering over Passin's fate, as well.
As for Theron we'd be better off to reason with him... I still am not entirely sure as to what is going on there. I understand that his sister is being used against him -> maybe throw the cloak over him in an attempt to face her?! She seemed quite reasonable

Buff, gl to your friend raixel. I agree with Beo's sentiments - appalling!

[Ameena]

Lol as has been mentioned above, Theron feels guilty about his sister's death or something (I'm not sure how she died or why Theron feels guilty about it) and so her spirit is stuck nearby - she can't "die properly" unless Theron lets go. Gholst is basically stuck in spirit-form too but can possess Theron's body - Theron could just completely kick his arse but Gholst threatens to destroy (or otherwise harm) Karnadee's spirit if he does so. So if we can talk to Theron and persuade him that Karnadee needs to be let go and that he's causing her to be stuck where she is and so under threat from Gholst (and does Theron really want to feel guilty x2? ), maybe he will manage to do so. In which case, hopefully, Karnadee will bugger off to wherever it is spirits are supposed to go, and then we can deal with Gholst (or Theron can).
I recommend once more that we do not turn our talk to the subject of the Soulstone until this has been dealt with - I dunno if Gholst already knows how close we are to fully fixing it, but best not to even hint at that in case he has no idea we've already put two pieces together and are carrying the combined fragment around with us .
Last time (ie in the First Run), we put the Soulstone together before Gholst was dealt with, summoning the Grey Lord and leading Gholst to kill Theron which caused that dark-robed dude with the horny helmet and red eyes to show up and generally be unpleasant.
It may sound simple, to just talk to Theron, ignore anythign Gholst says, and so hopefully cause sibling love and stuff to win the day. However, there are complications in the forms of Dolo, Garax, and Dargat...and possibly also Passin and the grak-graks. I think the idea of confronting Dolo's spirit-form first is a good one - take that down and hopefully his body will become helpless in some way, which I'm sure will affect Garax's morale and make him somewhat less sure of himself. I think rushing Dolo whilst firmly concentrating on the cheesiest, most happy-feeling thoughts we can might possibly have some level of effectiveness, since as has already been discovered he doesn't understand concepts such as loyalty and friendship, any more than the Murafu understand things like hatred and deceit.
Wuffy - You mentioned something about Falkor's cloak being low on power or something, Can it be recharged somehow or just left to rebuild its energy supply for more uses, or does it only have a certain amount of power which is then used up permanently, thus reducing the cloak to a non-magical piece of grey cloth?

[beowuuf]

See, Ameena pretty much has what I would call a good working plan here. Thank god this is a roleplaying GAME and I can still throw lots of roadblocks at you with some nasty dice rolls. Whew. If it was all just narrative ideas and good creativity, you guys would have me beat right away. But yeah, you've got the shape of the story there and a way to try and make it play out. Certainly that's a good way to tackle Theron, Dolo's defeat may well give you the good cover, and the dynamic of the blackskulls is open to that sort of uncertainty.

Of course, how much of a spanner in the works Dargat and Gholst will be, how Garax will react to the way thigns go, and what exactly will happen if the grak-graks have the leash off while you are anywhere close...those are some fun questions

The cloak has a limited power per day, so once it is discharged you would need an overnight recharge to get it back. That's sorta what's happened, I let it get a little recharged so money could have some use from it.

[Ameena]

Like I said - complications .

[ian_scho]

One thing I've learnt from Ameena.... Next time write the plot stuff down somewhere! I'm forever losing plot points :O

[beowuuf]

After almost two years, it's not really surprising!

[Ameena]

Right, I've gone through my PMs now and I can give some more info.
Dargat is an orc. Heh, this could be good when he meets Haynuus.
Originally Gholst was in charge, then Dargat, then Garax. Gholst died and became a spirit, so Dargat started pretending to be him in order to keep a grip on the lower-ranked Blackskulls.
So here's an idea - Passin is a lower-ranked Blackskull and he's in that room. Whether anyone else is is another matter. But if the Blackskulls think that Dargat is Gholst, pointing out to them that Gholst is a spirit and that Dargat is Dargat and not Gholst might possibly have some effect. Maybe Passin will manage to run off and tell all the other Blackskulls - after all, he might be more likely to listen to us as I believe we sort of semi-got through to him before...
On the other hand, he might just get one-shotted by one of the other people in the room. He might even be dead before we get there, depending on what's going on up there right now.
Next, because Gholst is a spirit and Dolo obviously has rather a lot of influence in that area, Gholst allows the elf to stick around because it might help his "condition" somehow. Dolo was originally "introduced" to the group by Garax, and so Gholst finds him generally interesting and cool. If we can kick the shit out of Dolo, Gholst therefore might start getting a bit worried...or he might just be really pissed off with us and star chucknig lightning bolts and stuff. So maybe we should hold back on the "ha ha we ganked Dolo" mentioning until we've had a few words with Theron.
Gholst doesn't currently have a great relationship with Dargat, therefore, because Dargat is pretending to be him and because he's more to the side of Dolo/Garax becuase Dolo might be able to, I dunno, get him a new body or something. But he has to allow Dargat to continue in his act because otherwise the other Blackskulls will probably all rebel or something. Maybe we can do something to make those two split even further. It's like there are several factions here, and each could turn on the other if we prod them in the right place .

[ian_scho]

If we threatened to 'gank' Dolo in front of the others, then - would that have any sway over them? He'd be unconscious of course!

Maybe our true 'target' is Gholst but am not sure how to remove him... Ode for a vorpal blade! - Your ceremonial dagger had a similar appearance to a vorpal blade, Ameena. Did you show it to Westian, Falkor or Petal? I'm assuming that the OH blade of Haynuus won't work against Gholst.

[ian_scho]

Also, does Falkor know the DES EW (I forget the runes now) spell to fight against the incorporeal?

[Ameena]

Wuffy's already said that all the items with special properties have been described. So this ceremonial knife is presumably just the same as the previous one I had (which was lost when we fought the Vine Dragon) and is just a normal knife with a dark blade. It's not all wibbly or anything - it's just a normal-shaped knifeblade.
So, Dolo's spirit is reportedly roaming around the Path of Light for some reason - whether he's waiting for us to come along (because the path he's on is the one that ramps directly up to the main room) or has some other reason for being there, we don't know. His body, I believe, is up in the main room where Darget etc are. If someone can do something to his spirit to maybe stop it going back to his body or maybe destroy it altogether (though don't tell Ameena exactly how violently you've kicked his arse if you do ), then that removes one enemy directly and probably one or two others indirectly. Garax will lose his main ally, Gholst will be Most Unhappy, and Dargat will probably try to move in and get his leader's ear once again since his rival-for-attention will have been removed.
Regarding Gholst, Ian, I reckon the goal is Theron - he can deal with Gholst once we persuade him to let Karnadee go. Or rather, let go his guilt over the death of Karnadee. Does anyone (Falkor?) know how that came about, by the way, and exactly why Theron feels guilty about it?

[oh_brother]

I have two flasks with ON VI potions. I also have 3 flasks with some brown stuff (not good) that we got from Soorec's room. If possible we could rinse these out and fill with healing potions (I can cast 2 x ON and several UM spells atm, but no EE until it resets at the next encounter).

Westian will only cast VI potions, because he has specialised in healing. Maybe Petal and Deephold can cast anti-magic, YA and Ku potions? How many flasks does each person have?

[oh_brother]

I like the idea of trying to reason with Theron and let him free his sister.

I have been searching for any information I had on Theron's sister (we can assume these OOC thoughts are being discussed IC also). Westian met the girl briefly when he died.

1. She said that the fault was hers alone, and that Theron "carries no ill". Also she said: "Tell him it was not his fault! We were both children, and the invocation was mine, alone!" Maybe passing this message on to Theron could help? It was a direct message.

2. Her ghost looks like it is covered in sweat, hinting that whatever killed her would have caused that. A fever? Being slowly roasted?

3. Karna is a female High Lord, related with time and seasons. Maybe not relevant.

[ian_scho]

Haynuus had an empty flask, I believe.

I'd forgotten about the rhyme! I assumed her passing away was due to a fever but maybe Ameena has a better idea. I like a lot point number 1 though - good stuff.

[Ameena]

It sounds like they were messing around with some kind of spell when they were kids, and she conjured up something that killed her. Perhaps Theron feels he didn't try hard enough to stop her from doing so? Also - is it sweat, or water? Maybe it was something fiery that killed her (like a fiery demon of some sort) or maybe she drowned or something. Whatever the case...actually, if they were children at the time, how come her ghost is that of a woman? If she died as a child, shouldn't her spirit keep that appearance? Maybe she doesn't mean it that literally - maybe they were teenagers or something, or metaphorically children in that they were "innocent", not knowing what they were doing.
Maybe if Falkor reserves the power of the cloak till we meet Theron, we can offer it to him and persuade him to go meet his sister's spirit in person and get her forgiveness or whatever it is he needs that way. It is his cloak, after all, I believe, so presumably he knows what it does. So he won't think we're trying to trick him if we tell him that it'll send him to the spirit world, even if he doesn't believe Karnadee is there.
How much time is left in the cloak right now? Did Falkor get an accurate guess of it? Are we talking just a few minutes? Because if we can get Theron listening to us, that might be enoug if we can lend it to him. Or maybe he's uber enough to chuck some power at it himself and recharge it.
I had another thought - Theron's a mage, and the apprentice of the Grey Lord, right? So he's probably pretty fucking uber . So maybe if we get his attention enough (politely! Let's not go threatening him etc) maybe he can prevent Dargat and the others from making any moves. We should take care that Gholst doesn't try to take over Theron and carry out his threats on Karnadee if he thinks we're getting close to success (hence not mentioning the Soulstone whatsoever). Taking out Dolo prior to this will mean one less threat on the spiritual plane and might give Theron a bit more leeway to use his powers, whatever they may be. I think we should try and deal with Dolo first (happy thoughts, happy thoughts...damn where are the Care Bears when you need them? ), then head up and talk nicely to Theron and try to persuade him of stuff. I think he has to let Gholst take over his body, though we know Gholst is capable of destroying him because it happened on the First Run.

[oh_brother]

So we are agreed on the course of action: we go after Dolo first and then try to talk to Theron.

Yes, talking to Theron might be difficult with Gholst around, but we can see how it goes. It also depends on whether all the leaders are together or not: if there are by his side then as Ameena said we might have to rely on Theron being able to hold them in check. Giving him his cloak back is also a possibility, so long as we can pry it from Falkor's fingers.

Westian would also like to free Passin (but of course would not risk the entire mission for one person).

So if I can/should empty and clean the other flasks I can have 4 x UM and 1 x UM VI potions prepared.

[ian_scho]

Agreed, agreed. I like the idea of sending Theron to his sister for a chat, forcibly so if necessary!

[beowuuf]

Cool! Since it's my birthday tomorrow, I may or may not be around (I have the day off, I think last time I did home and town stuff so still updated anyway). So I'll set you guys up for moving towards Dolo then! I like your general ideas, let's see what gets to go smoothly, and what gets to go completely south!

I see Raixel has been distracted, which hopefully is a good 'get to be with her friend not stuck looking for distractions' sort of way, and I have a PM to send to money aswell.


So yeah, update soon, and also answe45r a couple of OOC points too!

[Ameena]

As mentioned, Ameena's current flask situation stands at one Um-Vi potion and one empty flask. She will be happy to give both over to somone else if they need it or whatever - just lt me know afterwards so I know what I've got .
Wow Wuffy, you managed to get from E to R via 4 and 5 - well done .

[beowuuf]

I hit the general area hoping it would work.

[beowuuf]

Karnadee is the day in the start of sprng that celebrates Karna, and Theron's sister was likely named for being born at that time. Hence the date on the scroll you guys found in the temple at the start, which was the page from Theron's journal (as you might reliase now) right before all the troubles started


I don't think there are any outstanding questions I need to answer, is there?


Edit: That was the other one I recalled, the cloak has no fixed gauge. Petal or Falkor could try and guess (Falkor from memory and feel, Petal from external feel) but assume only a couple of minutes.

[Ameena]

Hmm, so probaly not enough to gank Dolo and then get Theron to visit Karnadee. Well, not unless he can recharge it himself becuase he's uber, or something. And it is his cloak. Maybe we should hold of on using it against Dolo in some way unless we find we can't beat him without it. Mind you, we know Karnadee can make herself visible to us all without us using the cloak, because she's done it at least twice (that I can remember) in the past, right back near the beginning of the game. Then I think she had to be quick and disappear before someone (I presume Gholst, though possible Dolo?) came and found her talking to us.